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TimJ 10-11-2014 08:25 AM

FAA working to make radio control flight illegal ?
 
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/the...d-hobby-drones
Written by JASON KOEBLER


October 10, 2014 // 05:12 PM EST




The Federal Aviation Administration took the first initial steps today toward severely restricting or banning all hobby and commercial drone flights in the country, putting in a request to formally cancel the document under which model aircraft have legally operated since 1981.
The document it wants to kill is called Advisory Circular 91-57, and it's a really important one for those who fly drones: issued in 1981, the document sets the voluntary guidelines under which drones can be flown (you can read much more about that in our earlier explanation here).
The fact that the guidelines contained within it—do not fly higher than 400 feet, do not operate near an airport, etc.—are just that, guidelines, was seen as an implicit suggestion that there are no legally enforceable regulations under which to fine or arrest drone pilots.
To be clear: Flying model aircraft before 1981 was technically legal as well, but this document expressly notes that the FAA has no regulations on them and that following the rules outlined in the document is strictly voluntary.
Today, however, the agency issued a memorandum "to request cancellation of AC 91-57, Model Aircraft Operating Standards" (embedded below).
This would apply to both hobby drone pilots and commercial users, except for those with express permission (like some movie studios and one oil company).
"This AC is superseded by statutory language in the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012, Section 336," the memo, written by a member of the agency's Airspace Policy and Regulations Group, said. "The guidance in [AC 91-57] is no longer applicable."
That part is key—earlier this summer, the FAA put out an "interpretation" of that FAA Modernization law that the agency says gives it wider latitude to restrict certain very popular types of drone activity, such as first person view flights. The latest interpretation is much more restrictive than AC 91-57, which has been cited in important court cases regarding the legality of commercial drones.
Viewed through that lens, it shouldn't come as a surprise that the agency wants to kill off the document that explicitly says all its drone rules are voluntary.
Beyond that, the memo notes that a "new advisory circular is under development," which suggests that, rather than putting out a notice for public comment and standard rulemaking, as the agency was ordered to do by Congress, it's thinking about putting out yet another document that's not legally binding.
The latest interpretation, which the agency says is legally binding and enforceable, is being challenged by three separate lawsuits.
“AC 91-57 has guided model aircraft operators safely for over three decades," Brendan Schulman, the lawyer representing those clients, told me. "This proposal to cancel it seems premised on the notion that Congress imposed new regulations on model aircraft in a 2012 statute and by the FAA’s June 25 so-called ‘interpretation’ of that same statute. That is a premise that is being challenged in court by the Academy of Model Aeronautics and other clients.”




TimJ 10-11-2014 08:34 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Here is the FAA memo.

init4fun 10-11-2014 11:17 AM

:cool: Hi Tim ,

I read your quoted FAA memo and it doesn't at all seem to call for RC flight to be illegal , it appears to be a request to replace AC 91/57 with the new definition of what is considered a model aircraft . Now , a Drone , a paid use of the model aircraft technology , does not fall under the same usage classification as a model aircraft and I'm sure are shortly to have a set of operating conditions released for them as well .

binns aero 10-11-2014 03:53 PM

you got it init!:)

tailskid 10-11-2014 05:26 PM

I'm sorry, but I have dealt with the FAA and believe me they want ALL the control of everything that leaves the surface of the earth in the USA. I don't trust them - plain and simple......and I hope I am 100% in ERROR. Time will tell.

binns aero 10-12-2014 01:24 PM

Maby the FAA forgot that without model aviation all they would have to do is fine the birds for number two on the sidewalks.:)

TimJ 10-13-2014 07:08 AM

THIS should be a major concern for everyone whom enjoys model aviation.

bradpaul 10-13-2014 07:16 AM


Originally Posted by TimJ (Post 11898733)
That should be a major concern for everyone whom enjoys model aviation.

Especially as there is currently no way to comply with PL 112-95 Sec. 336. No nationwide community based organization has either been recognized by the FAA or declared that they are a nationwide community based organization to comply with the requirements of Sec. 336.

It is a game of CHICKEN, the FAA won't recognize and the AMA won't declare.

ira d 10-13-2014 11:58 AM


Originally Posted by bradpaul (Post 11898743)
Especially as there is currently no way to comply with PL 112-95 Sec. 336. No nationwide community based organization has either been recognized by the FAA or declared that they are a nationwide community based organization to comply with the requirements of Sec. 336.

It is a game of CHICKEN, the FAA won't recognize and the AMA won't declare.

I think we all know that the AMA intends to be the CBO, So no reason I see for them to declare so. Also I don't think it will mean anything for them declare if the FAA wont
recognize them as such.

Hossfly 10-13-2014 06:10 PM


Originally Posted by ira d (Post 11898954)
I think we all know that the AMA intends to be the CBO, So no reason I see for them to declare so. Also I don't think it will mean anything for them declare if the FAA wont
recognize them as such.

As long as the AMA Executive Council (EC) allows the AMA's paid hierarchy to stand up to the EC and perform as the Paid Staff so desires, then there will not be any strength in the AMA. Hasn't been for years and I don't think there will be much change unless this year which the membership has all the goodies to make a big change, I don't see any fires burning. Sad, and to me very scary.
As long as the membership plays with toys rather than clean house of the EC that does not perform to membership satisfaction, then the FAA can just sit back in their rocking-chairs and simply state, "Well, maybe next month or next year... etc....etc, so let's take a walk on the "boardwalk" and see what's cooking?. :mad:
Have you voted? Do you know the persons running for office in your district? Are you aware that there are a number of new DVPs this new year, 2015, coming on board? Have you written to the new ones? The new guys seem to be very good and ready to make some noise, but they need some input from their constituents.
I have not seen any smoking guns even this year. Why NOT? Replies please!

TimJ 10-15-2014 07:10 AM

Take your politics somewhere else Hossfly........

Here's the latest on AC 91-57 being cancelled.


AC 91-57 Cancelled in Error

http://amablog.modelaircraft.org/ama...go-150x150.gif
Last Friday, Oct 10th, it was announced that FAA Advisory Circular 91-57, “Model Aircraft Operating Standards”, published in 1981 was cancelled. This obviously caught the aeromodeling and sUAS community by surprise and left a lot of unanswered questions.
In a communication earlier today with Jim Williams, Executive Manager of the FAA UAS Integration Office, it was learned that the announcement was premature and the cancellation notice on the FAA webpage was posted in error.
FAA does plan to cancel AC 91-57 in order to reconcile the outdated AC with current sUAS policy and the “Special Rule for Model Aircraft” provided by Congress as part of the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012. However, this will occur at a later date and will be accompanied by additional information and an explanation as to the reason for the cancellation.
AMA members are encouraged to become familiar with the provisions of the Special Rule and continue to operate their model aircraft safely and responsibly in accordance with the National Model Aircraft Safety Code and the AMA Safety Program.
Special Rule for Model Aircraft

AC 91-57 – Model Aircraft Operating Standards


Rich Hanson
AMA Government and Regulatory Affairs

binns aero 10-15-2014 04:03 PM

Hey Tim I did't mail my ballot yet. Lets have a reality check. The FAA can't police it's own hanger nor can the AMA, both lack the staffing to do so.The FAA has field offices,agents and inspectors in every state,looking over pilots,aircraft,FBO's and repair stations.How much do they know is legal and by the book? The AMA has assoc. vp's in each district, maby 9 or 14 they do not watch everyone and what they are doing. They make guest apperances at some club events and big shows. Jon Doe dosen't have a club to join pays 58 bucks a year to fly in some field or parking lot and trys not to get in any trouble doing it. The AMA can't find him or check up on his building or flying skills.Maby the FAA just wants to re-think AC 91-57 to keep the genral public safe from Jon Doe,AKA AMA MEMBER.:rolleyes:

skylark-flier 10-15-2014 06:44 PM

..

Hossfly 10-15-2014 11:20 PM


Originally Posted by TimJ (Post 11899915)
Take your politics somewhere else Hossfly........

.

Thanks for the invitation, TimJ.
However I do like it here, so I think I will pitch my tent. Don't get much good "discussion" anymore, so I will hang on help you out a bit. :cool:

Eleven Districts, binns aero, 1 DVP each district.

TimJ 10-16-2014 08:05 AM


Originally Posted by binns aero (Post 11900162)
Hey Tim I did't mail my ballot yet. Lets have a reality check. The FAA can't police it's own hanger nor can the AMA, both lack the staffing to do so.The FAA has field offices,agents and inspectors in every state,looking over pilots,aircraft,FBO's and repair stations.How much do they know is legal and by the book? The AMA has assoc. vp's in each district, maby 9 or 14 they do not watch everyone and what they are doing. They make guest apperances at some club events and big shows. Jon Doe dosen't have a club to join pays 58 bucks a year to fly in some field or parking lot and trys not to get in any trouble doing it. The AMA can't find him or check up on his building or flying skills.Maby the FAA just wants to re-think AC 91-57 to keep the genral public safe from Jon Doe,AKA AMA MEMBER.:rolleyes:

Like many clubs across the country, they police themselves very successfully. The AMA relies heavily on clubs to police themselves. So in reality, the AMA has more "boots on the ground" than say the FAA, by ratio, to help keep all of us in check. In extreme cases these clubs will bring in an AVP or VP if necessary. This is aside from the guest appearances.

Jon Doe is no different. When joining the AMA Jon Doe is agreeing to the AMA Safety code. Jon Doe is obligated to follow those Safety guidelines. Much like the police, the AMA cannot watch everything. There will always be that one person that thinks they are better than the rules, or does not think they need to follow the rules, or fails to educate themselves of the rules. That cannot be prevented by MORE rules or regulations.

Lets be clear, this is about the FAA not having enough power. Currently, the FAA does NOT have enough power to fine or in-prison people whom are flying radio control aircraft in an unsafe manor.

Sadly, the attack on our hobby is not due to Jon Doe AKA AMA member.


I will leave my opinion out of this answer. I hope my answer helps you.

skylark-flier 10-16-2014 09:02 AM

Thankyou Tim, you said it so much better than I did in my erased comment. I'm one of those "Jon Doe's" with 60 years experience and I took personal offense to the line that you answered so well.

Thanks again,
Jon Doe, AMA member without a nearby club since 1973, flying since 1955, and never a problem

binns aero 10-16-2014 05:00 PM

I'm sorry lets try this again, Horrace,11 dist. yes, bottom of page in MA mag under each dist. news page Associate Vice Presidents 9 to 14 each distric didn"t count all for each distric.Tim, more people fly as non club members in the AMA then you think. And your ratio of "boots on ground" is , well lets just say I'm glad you were not in the military when I served.And Dave I'm sorry you understood TIM as Jon Doe attacking our hobby. I too am a Jon Doe. I'm sure we are all the best pilots that we can be. Maby the FAA is just waiting for us to step up and show how great we really are! :)

TimJ 10-17-2014 08:00 AM

There are 1018 registered AMA Member whom are also club members within a 25 mile radius of West Milford. Sorry Binns Aero, your argument goes nowhere.

binns aero 10-17-2014 04:16 PM

hey Tim, 6 active clubs lets do the ratio again.:confused:

littlecrankshaf 10-17-2014 04:54 PM


Originally Posted by binns aero (Post 11901325)
hey Tim, 6 active clubs lets do the ratio again.:confused:

just join a club already! Dang... Having our hobby policed all the time isn't all that bad... And besides you'll make a lot of guys in here happy.😜

binns aero 10-17-2014 04:58 PM

:)

binns aero 10-17-2014 06:58 PM

I think I figured out how RCU works. First off I'd like to apologize to ALL the RCU members I offended, And as Tim J PUT IT, the AMA is not attacking our hobby. And thankyou very much SKYLARK-FLIER for every thing you did for our country when I was in diapers. Some of us did it because it was our duty, and were proud to serve no thanks nessec.:)

skylark-flier 10-17-2014 09:42 PM

OK y'all, before anything else, I want to make this as public as possible:

I've directly extended to bins aero my personal apology, not only for being wrong but also for subjecting him to my vile and explosive temper. I'd like to restate it here.

Mr Binns, you've got my most sincere and heartfelt apology for treating you as I did - I was totally wrong and I truly do regret it.

Now, to the matter at hand.

Tim (and others) is right. AMA, as an organization, is pretty much the default CBO - doesn't have to be recognized by the FAA, Congress already implicitly did it when they wrote sec. 336. Anyway, AMA pretty much stands alone facing down the FAA in its efforts to side-step established law, and whether we totally agree with them or not, we need to back them in this. AMA clubs really ARE the prime "enforcers" of AMA standards, and we need to back them.

Binns is also right - there are an awful lot of us "Jon Doe"s, more or less independent fliers who are AMA members. We need to abide by those standards and, to the greatest extend possible, make sure that others do the same.

There are an awful lot of idiots out there that are flying quads (and similar) into hot pools in national parks, through fireworks, over stadiums and airports, whatever seems to gain the most attention. Unfortunately, we're the ones who will be regulated out of existance, while they simply continue to commit mayhem. No law has ever stopped an idiot from being an idiot.

Gotta tell ya, I wrote my FAA letters - also several to various senators & congressmen. I've done the calling. I recognize the danger to our hobby, and to be honest, I see the potential of us eventually becoming outlaws in our own country because the government wants it that way. It's totally frustrating.

JUSTMECAT 10-17-2014 11:40 PM

Let me begin by apologizing to all I may offend. This action is not being taken to end your hobby or protect the general public at large. It is an attempt to prevent you from filming any form of corruption, deceit or unlawful act perpetrated by "big business or government." I am glad you are incited and hope you keep up the fight. Unfortunately this is about freedom of speech, suppression of journalism and whistle-blowing. Not the threat posed by a flying styrofoam hamburger tray. Further more your vehicles are not drones. Although a few actually posses the technology to be such. Your craft are not flying autonomously, half way around the world, firing missiles. Please wake up and see this for what it is.Your hobby is the last thing you should be concerned with. Your freedom and that of your children should be first. If you are educated and above average intelligence? Please search "Accepted Value." This will give you an opportunity to understand what our government really is and how they work. I suggest after market computer security before searching. In summation,this is but another attempt to maintain control and protect the haves from the have nots.

bradpaul 10-18-2014 05:41 AM

There is one phrase that sums up my stand regarding the Federal Government and it's bureaucrats trying to take away freedom, it was supposedly uttered by King Leonidas to Xerxes at Thermopylae : MOLON LABE !


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