Are there any Nationwide CBO's other then the AMA?
[h=1]Community-Based Organization Law & Legal Definition[/h]
According to 20 USCS § 7801(6), the term “community-based organization” means “a public or private nonprofit organization of demonstrated effectiveness that-- (A) is representative of a community or significant segments of a community; and (B) provides educational or related services to individuals in the community.” OK the AMA has been referred to as meeting the regulatory definition in: FFA Interpretationhttp://www.faa.gov/uas/media/model_a..._spec_rule.pdf footnote 7 bottom of page 12 But the FAA assigns no exclusivity to the AMA. Are there any other "Nationwide Community Based Organivations" that meet the definition? I believe that RCU is not a nonprofit so that would preclude them. Ideas? |
Originally Posted by bradpaul
(Post 11987063)
Community-Based Organization Law & Legal Definition
According to 20 USCS § 7801(6), the term “community-based organization” means “a public or private nonprofit organization of demonstrated effectiveness that-- (A) is representative of a community or significant segments of a community; and (B) provides educational or related services to individuals in the community.” OK the AMA has been referred to as meeting the regulatory definition in: FFA Interpretationhttp://www.faa.gov/uas/media/model_a..._spec_rule.pdf footnote 7 bottom of page 12 But the FAA assigns no exclusivity to the AMA. Are there any other "Nationwide Community Based Organivations" that meet the definition? I believe that RCU is not a nonprofit so that would preclude them. Ideas? |
Originally Posted by bradpaul
(Post 11987063)
Community-Based Organization Law & Legal Definition
According to 20 USCS § 7801(6), the term “community-based organization” means “a public or private nonprofit organization of demonstrated effectiveness that-- (A) is representative of a community or significant segments of a community; and (B) provides educational or related services to individuals in the community.” OK the AMA has been referred to as meeting the regulatory definition in: FFA Interpretationhttp://www.faa.gov/uas/media/model_a..._spec_rule.pdf footnote 7 bottom of page 12 But the FAA assigns no exclusivity to the AMA. Are there any other "Nationwide Community Based Organivations" that meet the definition? I believe that RCU is not a nonprofit so that would preclude them. Ideas? |
LCS, I speculate that the tern "Nationwide CBO" from the PL was invented to fit the AMA. Community in this context would be the "community of model aircraft hobbyists".
CJR, I think it all turns on what "subject to the programming of" actually means. As we know the AMA position is membership required. |
AMA is NOT a community based organization. They have never been designated as such by the FAA.
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The public hobby centers in the old USSR were CBOs.
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Originally Posted by AlW
(Post 11987402)
AMA is NOT a community based organization. They have never been designated as such by the FAA.
"2 The FAA is aware that at least one community based organization permits ‘‘first person view’’ (FPV) operations during which the hobbyist controls the aircraft while wearing goggles that display images transmitted from a camera mounted in the front of the model aircraft. While the intent of FPV is to provide a simulation of what a pilot would see from the flight deck of a manned aircraft, the goggles may obstruct an operator’s vision, thereby preventing the operator from keeping the model aircraft within his or her visual line of sight at all times. This is a direct reference to the AMA "Advanced Flight Systems Operations" program. Additionally, the FAA provides a direct hyperlink to the AMA webpages for model aviators to seek additional safety information. This link is in the FAA webpage "What Can I Do With My Model Aircraft". As far as I am concerned, the FAA has recognized the AMA as a CBO. It is, however, quite fascinating to observe that the FAA has not recognized any other CBO. |
Originally Posted by JohnShe
(Post 11987469)
I suppose that it really depends on what you mean by "designated", but I should point out to you that the FAA has, in writing, recognized the existence of the AMA as a CBO. In a footnote in the "Interpretation of the Special Rule for Model Aircraft" the FAA states:
I think this is essentially a matter of the AMA being big enough now that not many other non-profits want to tackle them or even think it is worthwhile endeavor. It takes time to build a non-profit and go through all the red tape. I was a director of a small non-profit once and I know many of the ins and outs of the non-profit structure. This is not intended as a throw down on the AMA, however I wished they did have some competition as it would make it better for all of us. Just the simple thing of flying at clubs we have to make sure they are AMA sanctioned (at least in my area) or we buy our own land and build a field which for many of us is not feasible. |
Originally Posted by Luchnia
(Post 11987530)
This is like implying that the mail came today. I recognize the US mail is in existence because they brought my mail to my house. Not that you are implying such, yet to recognize an organization does not mean it is endorsed, backed, has any ties at all, and does not put FAA on the line at all. Now if the FAA had "ties" in some of their "legal" (for lack of a better term) documents then there would be an issue. The AMA is like a sweat bee flying around the FAA's head and I would wager that the FAA does not want to contend with the AMA, yet it is one of those things that they have to acknowledge because the AMA does keep "buzzing" them.
I think this is essentially a matter of the AMA being big enough now that not many other non-profits want to tackle them or even think it is worthwhile endeavor. It takes time to build a non-profit and go through all the red tape. I was a director of a small non-profit once and I know many of the ins and outs of the non-profit structure. This is not intended as a throw down on the AMA, however I wished they did have some competition as it would make it better for all of us. Just the simple thing of flying at clubs we have to make sure they are AMA sanctioned (at least in my area) or we buy our own land and build a field which for many of us is not feasible. Furthermore in the cited text from the interpretive rule, the FAA specifically uses the term "community based organization" in reference to the cited AMA safety program. |
Originally Posted by JohnShe
(Post 11987648)
To start with, you have lifted my words out of context. If you read the rest of my text, you will observe that the FAA does indeed endorse the AMA by using them as a source of model aviation safety guidelines in their web page.
Furthermore in the cited text from the interpretive rule, the FAA specifically uses the term "community based organization" in reference to the cited AMA safety program. IMO the AMA is the only organization that fits that description currently in the usa. |
Originally Posted by ira d
(Post 11987917)
I don't think the FAA endorses the AMA are will require anyone to belong to them in exchange for less regulation but IMO they do recognize them and
IMO the AMA is the only organization that fits that description currently in the usa. |
Originally Posted by JohnShe
(Post 11988035)
Well the FAA cannot require AMA membership. The law only requires that recreational model aviators follow the safety guidelines of a CBO. The FAA only acknowledges the AMA as a CBO at present. I don't think there is another organization that would qualify as a CBO.
a AMA member in exchange for less stringent regulation however I don't think they will. |
Originally Posted by ira d
(Post 11987917)
I don't think the FAA endorses the AMA are will require anyone to belong to them in exchange for less regulation but IMO they do recognize them and
IMO the AMA is the only organization that fits that description currently in the usa. This link has a good synopsis on their agreement: http://www.faa.gov/news/updates/?newsid=75599 Some may have seen this, but here is an example of the DOT and FAA with no AMA involvement mentioned: http://www.faa.gov/news/press_releas...m?newsId=18295 The FAA is utilizing the AMA for aero-modeling safety as much as possible. Why not? It is good strategy. If there were more organizations in the "know" then the FAA would use them too. |
Originally Posted by ira d
(Post 11988157)
The FAA had not yet said what their definition of operating under the programming of a CBO means, So it is possible the FAA could if they wanted to could require a modeler to be
a AMA member in exchange for less stringent regulation however I don't think they will. |
Originally Posted by JohnShe
(Post 11988261)
I'm beginning to think that you are fact averse. Have you not read the interpretive rule? It makes it quite clear. The FAA does not have to endorse a CBO, only merely acknowledging the existence of a group that meets the intent of the law is satisfactory.
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Originally Posted by JohnShe
(Post 11988261)
I'm beginning to think that you are fact averse. Have you not read the interpretive rule? It makes it quite clear. The FAA does not have to endorse a CBO, only merely acknowledging the existence of a group that meets the intent of the law is satisfactory.
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Originally Posted by ira d
(Post 11988355)
I understand facts very well. And I never said the FAA has to endorse the AMA.
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Originally Posted by littlecrankshaf
(Post 11988478)
Yea, I was wondering where he got the idea you said anything like that... but be that as it may, it seems an unspoken contention that AMA is the model airplane god LOL
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Originally Posted by JohnShe
(Post 11988498)
If it is unspoken, then how do you know it is a contention?
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Here is how the Conference Committee for Section 336 defined a CBO:
In this section the term ``nationwide community-based organization'' is intended to mean a membership based association that represents the aeromodeling community within the United States; provides its members a comprehensive set of safety guidelines that underscores safe aeromodeling operations within theNational Airspace System and the protection and safety of the general public on the ground;develops and maintains mutually supportive programming with educational institutions,government entities and other aviation associations; and acts as a liaison with government agencies as an advocate for its members. |
Originally Posted by JohnShe
(Post 11988035)
Well the FAA cannot require AMA membership. The law only requires that recreational model aviators follow the safety guidelines of a CBO. The FAA only acknowledges the AMA as a CBO at present. I don't think there is another organization that would qualify as a CBO.
(2) the aircraft is operated in accordance with a community-based set of safety guidelines andwithin the programming of a nationwide community-based organization; |
I'm not a lawyer but to me that means abiding by the safety code, not actually being a member.
Though if what we have now is the final result after the NPRM becomes law/rules/code then I think we can say we spent our dues well the last several years. |
Originally Posted by Silent-AV8R
(Post 11988858)
The actual law requires not only following the safety code of a CBO, but to also be operating "within the programming" of it:
Frank |
Originally Posted by BarracudaHockey
(Post 11988955)
I'm not a lawyer but to me that means abiding by the safety code, not actually being a member.
Though if what we have now is the final result after the NPRM becomes law/rules/code then I think we can say we spent our dues well the last several years. However, I think AMA can say that from AMA's viewpoint... In order to be operating within AMA's safety program you must be a member and actively engaged with AMA and participating within the safety program. We have to have a way of communicating directly with the sUAS operator(s) to relay important safety information such as TFRs, and the participating individual must agree and assert that he/she knows, understands and agrees to abide by AMA's safety guidelines as a condition of membership. Take care, Rich Hanson |
Originally Posted by phlpsfrnk
(Post 11989027)
Okay, I'll ask the obvious question here. I think everyone understands "operating in accordance with a community-based set of safety guidelines". What does "within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization" mean? I certainly don't think they mean being a member of an organization.
Frank |
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