I suppose you're right. Still, I'm glad they did something, rather than nothing. It might ultimately prove to be the wrong thing, and have cost the AMA money and time and effort, but I'm hopeful that we will at least get something out of it. How to quantify that will be interesting to say the least.

Aw, the good old "what if" question. Always thought that "Murphy's Law" and "what if" went hand in hand.

I'm still wondering about the number of lawsuits filed. Seems like numbers are hard to find. Although I did find where the AMA was suing the FAA but we already knew that.

Mike

This is another one of those times when some information can be gleaned from the financials, actionable information if you will, rather than perfect information. Total figures are presented via liabilities/exposures, rather than specific claim numbers or individual payments.

Premiums for insurance went down from 304k to 289 and change from 2013-2014. That either means we had a good year severity wise, or the AMA shopped around like us normal consumers do and got a better deal. Don't know, but in another section of the reports it lists insurance and claim expense payments increasing about 140k, from 1,060,000 to 1,200,000. Don't know if that is for claim indemnity payments, or for the expenses associated with claim handling.

Also, many times claims are filed and negotiated to the satisfaction of all involved parties. Lawsuits are usually only filed when there is a dispute on value, or a matter of law that needs to be worked through. They do happen, and they are ungodly expensive to defend. A garden variety soft tissue personal injury type of case that drags out over a year or two or even three can easily reach into the 20-30-even 40k range in terms of legal fees. Commercial and business litigation is even worse, much much worse.

Prior to my joining one club I belong to, a claim was filed by a landscaper who was hit by a larger plane, broke his leg in 2 places. That claim settled for just under 100k I believe.

I understand the insurance claims numbers and have looked over the financials. it was the issue of actual lawsuits (from a few posts back). I also know that they are are drawn out deal and normally settles before they ever hit the courts.

Also the lower premiums may have gone down due to the AMA (being self insured up to X amount of dollars) paid before actually filing against the policy.

Mike

Yup...my guess is more than 1.....after that, who knows.

My hope is they budget the second year dues so they have something left in 2017, don't spend it all in 2016

I am posting this here primarily because of the funky stuff RCUniverse has going on with the webiste and the fat that I still have to use IE8 because this place won't upgrade to IE11 yet. Also, this thread is the most popular one know and I think this info needs ot go to a lot of people. If the moderators would like to move it and start anohter thread that would be great.

The Federal Aviation Administration on Tuesday proposed a record $1.9 million fine against an aerial photography company for flying drones in crowded New York and Chicago airspace without permission.


SkyPan International Inc. of Chicago operated 65 unauthorized flights between March 2012 and December 2014 in some of the nation's most congested airspace, the FAA said in a statement. - http://news.yahoo.com/faa-proposes-n...--finance.html


Remember that a lot of those near misses were in the Newark, New York arspace? 43 of these flights were also

This is great news! Thanks for sharing. I hope the full amount of the fine sticks.

I'll be dipped in *__T. $1.9 Million, Sounds something they would fine GM or Volkswagen. Depending how big they are, they'll just declare bankruptcy and fold the operation and just walk away.
SkyPan International Inc. of Chicago
I like the ABOUT section.

http://skypanintl.com/about_new.html

This is fantastic news, as Chris has said, I hope the fine sticks. Chances are they will negotiate a settlement, and then try to go about this the right way. They could spend years and a ton of money trying to fight the fine and still end up losing. That's a big chunk of change as well, and not something covered by insurance, so it will come right out of profits (if they even have that much). FAA seems to be sending a big message. Hopefully this is a benchmark case that other companies will look at and think twice about.

Whereas those near missed etc have almost never been tracked back to a source, these guys crowed about what they could, and were doing. Sort of like a YouTube video, only much more costly. I'd like to see the medial follow up on this story, and the other one referenced in the piece, as to final outcome.

Hate to see any legit business go under now a days, someone had to start this from the ground up, to bad they went about it the wrong way. Don't know about them being able to file bankruptcy and get out of a federal fine, something tells me they will be on the hook for it forever, or possible jail time. If they are smart they will bend over backwards to get the FAA off their back.

Chances are they would not release that information, Don't think they are obligated too, nor is it something that is typically divulged. Not sure what the purpose would be in getting the info unless it has to do with underwriting, repricing policies etc. I'm wonder if the VP's even have access to that data. Yes, I realize we are all members of the AMA and pay dues, and there should be a level of transparency (the financial records may suffice although lacking specificity), I just don't think that's something that's shared with the general membership. Lot's of decisions are made about a lot of things they do that don't require membership review, analysis, and approval. I'm not sure the bulk of the membership cares about a lot of the day to day stuff, imo. Clearly the multi-rotor issues, as well as dues increases is something many folks are aware of, and feel strongly about.

If they won't give member numbers why would I expect info on lawsuits? I was just curious.

Mike

Now that's good news. Now lets see them go after individuals who commit violations with the same enthusiasm.

Mike

I don't know about going after individucals just yet. If they get the fine and can keep it from being taken by higher ups that could be their budget for the year :rolleyes:

And yet in the very first post in this thread, a membership number was given by members of the EC.

"....we are 175,000 now......"

So we have number. Has the AMA historically released membership numbers every year? Is this data point wanted now because it hasn't been available down to the exact member before. I honestly don't get the drive to have a more specific number. Does it change anything that's going on now? if in a year or two the membership plummets, that's a different story no?

Do you feel as though the AMA must release information about lawsuits filed against the organization? 'm not asking to be argumentative, I swear, I just don't get the idea about needing that number. Does that change anything that is going on now?

Again, I don't know if they need to or have to disclose the data, but I would guess one place to start asking is the VP level.

Several have argued here that the AMA is a business, which I disagree with: to be accurate, it is a NPO (Non Profit Organization - or Association) as per AMA's own description as well as the IRS nomenclature.

We are members, and the board members, as mere elected representatives of the members (us), are indeed accountable to the members.

If the AMA were a business, we would be the stock/share holders (those who pay the bills and elect the board). In a business, the management is definitely accountable to the share holders.

As for the AMA's transparency, several members have asked the AMA just a few basic questions which should be easy to answer, such as:
- Of the $250,000.00 drone program budget voted on last year by the executive council, how much has been spent, and how?
- Has that campaign led to an actual increase in number of new members?
- In the membership questionnaire, how many of these new members list Multirotor and FPV as primary interest?

No answer has ever been provided to these inquiring members so far, a few months after starting the questions.
It doesn't take a genius to realize that the questions and speculations in several threads around these subjects indicate that there is no official answer revealed anywhere we know of.
Yet, there are enough AMA drone policy fans here, that if there was any quantitative information at all that would be flattering for this program, that information would certainly be revealed and promoted.
In fact, if that policy was a success, the AMA leaders who by a narrow vote margin took the AMA in this direction would be pounding their chests boasting their success; this would certainly clam much of the dissent down.
Not every member cares, but those who do should have easy access to pertinent information. How else can we make an informed choice of who we vote for? How else can we assess if a current officer or VP is doing a good job for us so we would re-elect him (or not)? It is like the news: a lot of people don't care, but it is all readily available to those who do.

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this is about the last time the ama gave detailed membership numbers out.

Thanks. "about" has never been a accepted accounting term that I know of.

Mike

+1

Mike

If we were engaged in an accounting exercise I would agree. Is the response all that much different if it's about 175,000 or 175,236? The quest for specific numbers seems to be a recent one, and for me (just me), has a red herring sort of feel to it. I'm sure there is a ton of information out there that we don't know about, but the lack of ability to find it immediately doesn't really concern me that much. If I really want the information, I'll just ask for it.

Now the increase in membership from the last "reported" list that Mongo posted to what we see in the OP is interesting. After years of declining membership, they rebounded in 2010, then 2011. they went from 143k in 2011 to 154k in 2012, mostly due to free youth memberships. when there were increases in membership it looked to be 3-5 a year. From 2012-2015 we see about (sorry) 20k increase, which I guess is good news. Not sure if free youth memberships account for that. It could also mean people were feeling better about spending money to join, or the hobby was more accessible with arfs, foamies, electronics etc etc. I doubt the dues "promotion" brought in new members (solely for that reason), rather incentivized the ones already here. Willing to bet if they numbers really spiked high, we'll see the results of that in an AMA announcement.

The simple solution is to ask for the information you want. If you don't know enough about the people running for office, read their literature if it's available, and if not, call or write them. The AMA provided a forum for those running for office to state their positions. Only one of the people really put themselves out there in terms of the "drone" issue, but the majority of what they all wrote was boilerplate political stuff. I'd rather see examples of what they have done (as incumbents), or specifics on what they will do if they get the office.

It's been argued that the AMA is " business" so exact numbers would be in order since "about" is not a acceptable accounting term.

Mike.