How much should members know WRT AMA finances ?
 

:cool: Thread question ,

There has been talk here recently of how the AMA spends money and what it spends money on . This subject , the subject of money , got me to thinking , just how much should the rank & file members know about the financial workings of our organization ? Should we expect an accounting of every penny ? A generalized wrap up of monies spent by each sub department ? A simple statement detailing money in VS money out ?

I'd really like to hear all your opinions on this , and PLEASE , remember , there ARE no right and wrong answers here , and no reason to attack someone who wants a different more or less detailed financial report than you do , just a general discussion of how much should be shared VS how much should be for the EC only .

Howdy Mister Fun...!
Happy Saturday to you, [unless you already happen to be retired then EVERY DAY is Saturday anyway......HA!!]

I gave this thread subject some thought right before the Glee Club was victorious in getting RCU to shut down Franklin's antiAMAmetic thread last week.
I would say that the items that have traditionally and historically been reported by the AMA should always be reported.
I can't think of any good reason why not.

:cool: Hi combatpigg , Happy Sunday right back to ya .

And yes , for my working life I was a Mechanic , and retired in 2006 . I'd have worked longer but health issues kinda put the kibosh on that . So yea , I guess every day is Saturday , but still it's amazing the things that can pop up to eat away at the free time .

My primary reason for this thread is that in and around the swordplay that ultimately doomed that thread someone had mentioned certain AMA financial info as being withheld from public release and I was curious if this was true and if so , what the basis would be for whatever was being withheld . Of course my initial thought is that members should each year have a proper accounting of each penny in and each penny out , but I'm open minded enough to listen to any reason why certain info is withheld (if this is in fact true) provided it's something more than "it's none of the peasant's business" .

I'd like access to everything from salaries to every penny spent and to who for what. While were at it exact membership numbers by category.


Mike

Mr. Fun...My hat's off to you for being able to make a living at that very high pressured and competitive business.
No doubt you know what an honest day's work for an honest day's pay means, since you lived it.
The newer cars with the overly cramped and complex mechanisms would have sent me to the Funny Farm. I probably wouldn't have made it to lunch before flipping out..!
As far as financial disclosure within a club is concerned.....
Regardless of what the legal bare minimums are, if a club has nothing to hide, holds it's membership in the highest esteem and with the highest level of respect, then they should WANT to be totally open and accountable.
They should be PROUD to show us what a tremendous job they are doing and by the same token they should feel free to share with us where they've goofed up.

:cool: I agree 100% about modern cars , which is why way back in the 1970s when I saw electronics first being incorporated into cars , I went and got my FAA A&P license and never touched cars again except as a hobby !

And Ok , so You and Mike and myself all think full disclosure is best . Do we have full disclosure ? Where would one even to begin to look to know whether there are things not told ? It's funny , knowing nothing about financial matters , I never really gave it much thought if and how much we as members are entitled to know about how our organization runs , till it was mentioned in that other thread .

http://www.modelaircraft.org/Members...tatements.aspx

We could start here but being I was a meat cutter by trade in management my experience in financials was P&L's. We either made money and hit margin or didn't.
I've looked at these and there's not much there, well that we would understand anyway.
Mike

:cool: Thank You Mike , I appreciate the link and I'll read into that a bit and see if any of it makes any sense to me .

Can you kindly identify any 501(c)(3) organizations comparable in financial size to the AMA (total revenue) that provide the level of detail you're looking for?

How predictable..LOL...!

Now see , that's something I'd also like to know , other 501(c)(3) organizations of comparable size , how do we rate against the average for disclosure ? Are we better ? Worse ? On par ? No one is being put on trial here and there are no barbs being thrown at anyone including the AMA . This is a discussion of finances and how open are we , how open should we be , and how we fare compared to similar sized organizations . Maybe we DO release more than the average . Maybe we don't . It is my opinion that we do have the right to know where our money goes , and that's the level of detail I'd like to see provided . Even such a relatively small economy as my own provides itself once a month with an accurate reporting of all monies in VS monies out , it's called balancing my checkbook . Now since we're all financially tied to the AMA , as it exists through our dues , I think a once yearly complete accounting of all monies in VS monies out is not too much to ask . I have in the past few days been doing some free time reading into everything I can find , using helpful links like the one Mike provided , and when I'm done I plan to try to pick a few other around 200K member 501(c)(3) organizations to compare .

Our club is a 501 (c) 3 and has been since 1998, while not as big as the AMA our books are open for any member at any time.

Mike

Speaking of your club's 501(c)(3) status, where's your club's exemption application?

And since I'm one of the ones that brought up the subject of finances I'll weigh in on this:
1) Since we are dealing with 10+ million dollars per year, a down to the penny account is asking a bit much. Breaking it down to around $100 on large expenditures and $10 on small would be more in line
2) An approximate cost of overhead expenses, including salaries, would not be out of line. Obviously, asking for the cost of every ream of paper or box of pens would be ridiculous in the general scope of things while travel costs paid for board members for official business would not be. As for travel and salaries, lumping all the salaries together is fine by me
3) How much is spent dealing with the government and how it is spent. This one is the one I think we really should be updated on, especially with the "drone" fiasco
4) how much is spent on member services and how it is spent. This covers insurance, newsletters, etc

And your club's last three years worth of tax returns?

I'll go along with that but I think expenses associated with travel and such should be broke down..

Mike

Ok , so a more generalized approach , such as "X amount for operating supplies" sounds far more reasonable than "X amount for paper clips , y amount for pens" and so on , on the surface , but just how generalized does a report need to get before things get too vague ?

:rolleyes:I believe the man said they are available to C L U B M E M B E R S ! Tell me , A R E you a member of Mike's Club , Crispy ? :rolleyes:

:cool: And to the rest of the thread participants , yes I do believe the AMA's report should naturally be for us members only , just as Mike's club's are only for it's members . Members have a vested financial interest , the uninvolved general public don't release their tax returns to strangers and neither should the AMA to nonmembers .

So now that we've effectively cut the legs out from under Crispy's trolling of Mike , lets return to the thread :D

That is why I said $100 on large expenditures, $10 on small. To get too vague is almost worse than no disclosing at all

To be quite honest, it don't make no difference to me what AMA discloses or don't . I have no means nor do I care to have means to hold them accountable for anything, I am a member simply because my two clubs require it. Speaking of clubs, if you're not a member it's none of your business. And last but not least by a long shot, as with any troll or trol'lish critter, don't matter what is removed it just grows back including the troll in the form of another name.


Edit: Came back to add, if what we thought made a difference they (the AMA) would not have embraced drones or sUAS's.

What makes you think I need to be a member of Mike's club? What makes you think I'm not entitled to the information I requested?

Init4fun..isn't it amazing how some people can be strong advocates for more secrecy than whatever existed before...?
The icing on the cake is when they say "Well ALL the other organizations are hiding their records from their members now, so why can't we...?"
George Orwell has a a great line that fits here in principle..
"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act".

Nice try , but in that thread , I WASN'T WARNED FOR A THING !

If you remember , >>> I <<< was the one repeatedly calling for the personal attacks to stop , and as I told you it was I who asked Ken to look in on that thread . Now , I know you were successful in getting that thread closed down , but Ken did say he won't be closing any more . As to Mike's club , it would appear that it's their club rules that you as a non member have no access , and I applaud that , your not entitled to a thing you don't PAY FOR .

Now , I strongly suggest you return to the subject of the thread , I'm sure Ken's patience wears thin of correcting YOU every time you troll in these threads . The subject is AMA finances , and I promise you , your very next off topic post gets reported for trolling , when put in the context of your posts to this thread so far .

Still think I'm playing games here , Crispy ? I WILL use the RCU rules to allow THIS discussion to continue , no matter HOW hard you try to get it closed . Don't like the subject ? TOO BAD , this is a DISCUSSION forum , and till YOU came along the discussion was going just fine .

Go for it. Please alert the administrators.

In a post that stated:

I simply asked for copies those documents. Should't all 501(c)(3) organizations be held to the same standards?

For the record, I love the subject. As I posted earlier, I would love to know of any financially comparable sized 501(c)(3) organization that provide the level of reporting identified by some in this thread.

Anyone find any yet?