Ah yes, another what if. Again I don't recall that it's been established that the pilot was nonwaivered, it might be back there in earlier comments. Nor what the status is of those watching. I prefer to review actual evidence and information rather than playing the video version of Quincy/Columbo. Different strokes 'n all.

You determined this how?

I love the vigorous defense. I presume when you mention the term "agenda"...you're referring to all of them in the thread right?

It was here that I read about the lack of a Turbine waiver under the name used in the video ....

lol

I know BarracudaHockey says he's looking in to it(and yes, I'm taking him at his word on this) but, for what that is worth, I doubt anything will be done by the AMA. To actually take action is to admit there is a problem. To admit there is a problem means that the self-policing policy the AMA and it's minions(yes, I'm finger pointing at some people in the forums, though not naming names since we all know who they are) are so proud of is not working and essentially admitting as much. To admit that self policing isn't working means "loss of face" and credibility as an organization when dealing with the FAA and Congress which basically negates the need for the AMA as a CBO. Lastly, since most people's home owners insurance will cover what might happen if someone does crash while flying, would we really need to pay for additional insurance through the AMA?
Does this bring the situation into focus for anyone other than me? My statement is based on a logical progression of what taking any kind of action means to the AMA's "White House" in Indiana. I would now challenge the AMA "cheerstaff" into providing a rebuttal statement that address's this with verifiable information that can prove me wrong. Any of the usual "spinning" and double talk will not be accepted as verifiable proof, so don't even bother to try that worn out tactic. Verifiable proof MUST INCLUDE A WORKING LINK to show where the information comes from, not just a "he said she said" line of bull we've seen so often

Seem's to me to take action would prove to the FAA that the self policing policy is working. To do nothing would leave too much doubt. Do you believe the FAA is reading this thread?

What an absolute load...just more generalizations without so much as a shred of evidence. Love the challenge bit too, so predictable and self serving. If only you could set the rules of all debate and discussion, lol. As if any answer would suffice.

Just more of the same AMA=Bad narrative so prevalent and persistent, at least here, at least by a handful or so. From the same folks who love name calling, and titles (sheeple, fan boy, minions, and now cheerstaff). From the same folks who have no ability to see in any way other than FOR or AGAINST. What is the equivalent name or title to apply to the folks with a persistent seething cynical hatred for the AMA? A loathing that goes on for years and years.

What's the name Hydro...you're good with names and titles. What do you want to call those folks? Actually no answer needed, it's a hypothetical question. Namecalling and titles don't really belong in thread like this, but are often used when all else fails.

All great stuff from yet another "Brotherhood" member....very traditional. What a great hobby.

:)

Ok so, I did some digging around and while you're not going to be getting a full run down of any actions that were or were not taken, I'll be addressing the situation with the individuals and clubs involved.

lol !

:cool: Thank You Andy . I do believe that of all the folks who post here that are above the rank of basic open member , it is you that most has the AMA and only the AMA's best interests at heart . To me , I don't need to hear all of the details of what's to transpire with the seemingly reckless pilot , to know that you will address the situation so that it don't happen again is fine with me . I do think this should be a bit of a wake up call for some kind of a public service announcement from the AMA to us members about the need to always put our hobby in the best light by following the Safety Code , further establishing the separation of safe AMA condoned flight VS the kind of flying represented in those videos of the Jet and Drone .

And that's the way it should be handled......kudos for your involvement and follow up.

Is it an absolute load? I think not. Here's my reasoning why:
1) Andy has taken it upon himself to investigate a bad situation and try to initiate corrective action being nothing more than a CD and leader member, something you claim to be but don't do anything to show you deserve the title, other than belittle others who see issues and point them out and preach the gospel of the AMA.
2) Did you say anything to anyone at district or national level about this guy and his rules violation which were well spelled out by Franklin?
3) Has anything been put out from AMA headquarters about this kind of conduct or repercussions due to it, considering the amount of video evidence posted by the guy breaking so many rules himself?

IF you, as an AMA member, did nothing to find the guilty person and correct the problems he's causing with his flagrant rules violations and "give-a-crap" attitude about repercussions, then you are just as guilty as he is and just as much a part of the problem
I'll get off my soap box now

Andy. Thanks for the update. With the acute attention on our hobby by legislators and regulators, I would have been more public to send a signal. If for no other reason than to take advantage of the opportunity to remind everyone that behaviors like this could impact all of us. But you're handling as you see fit. I do hope that this is sufficient.

Thanks again for sharing.

Actually they did, while I didn't bother to change my signature but I'm the District-V VP

It was an appointment made when our VP resigned in June for personal reasons and I'm not running so the gig is up in January so I tried to quietly not make a big deal out of it.

It's also the reason that even though I'm a CM here, I don't moderate the AMA forum, that little pleasure in life is for Ken alone :)

Field location vs. sectional chart.

Interesting, didn't realize sectional charts list who is and who isn't an AMA member.

"......and other AMA members stood watching......."

More assumptions, based on a video. Yet more evidence of an actual investigation needing to be completed, rather than looking at a video and stating fact.

LOL

Going down in flames, yet as righteous as ever!!

Astro

1. You have to be an AMA member to fly at that field.
2. Slide 1, taxing on the wrong side of the "no taxi" sign right in front of another AMA member & waiver holder (circled for your convenience).
3. Slide 2, on way back to pits just after landing, others standing at pilot station (also circled for your convenience)

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2188636http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2188637

Can you read a sectional chart and tell who is an AMA member and who isn't? If so, that's a neat trick. I don't think Franklin can, which is why I asked the question. It was obvious how the field name was determined, I'm just not sure how the conclusions were arrived at where the pilot was not a waiver holder, and everyone else around him was an AMA member. It may seem like a small point and inconvenient point to focus on, but it's a great example of how things will look one way, but might actually be completely different when looked into further. Not by guessing and supposing, but by knowing. I would think a guy that professes to do investigations for a living would know about the proper way to investigate something, I wouldn't think making wild assumptions based on a video would be proper protocol.

But the good news is it's going to be dealt with.

Are you being obtuse intentionally, or just don't want to state the obvious and correct your earlier comments? You have absolutely no idea if everyone there watching was or was not an AMA member. Your drawing a conclusion, and it's not supported factually. You and the lol'ers can have the last word, I'll cede the floor so the narrative can continue, it's clear there isn't a high standard of proof here.


Look forward to viewing additional videos and the ensuing analysis. I can't deny it won't be fun. :)

Porcia,

Are you a Defense Attorney, sure sound like one?:confused:

Absolutely on spot here!
It's exactly what I've been saying from day one regarding "separation" (one here continues to spin that term into meaning banning, excluding, etc). I see plenty of AMA members not following the safety guidelines, fortunately and more often than not, I see them get a friendly reminder from a fellow member (much like what Porcia and Barrcuda portrayed earlier). This system has served us quite well for many decades, but it is more important now than ever before, to strengthen this culture and assure we duly punish the blatant offenders (like we saw in the video) in order to have any hope of maintaing our respected CBO status and not having to be forced into restrictive legislation and outside enforcement. This is a huge black eye to the AMA. I mean if AMA members can't comply to the rules at an AMA clubs' field, how can they possibly advocate to and assure the Feds that their members comply when they fly their drones in the genaral public arena?
Most of the fields I have flown at/visited/belong to do a pretty darn good job of this thankfully! I HAVE noticed however, (ironically) a higher-than-average rate of ignorance/disregard for rules by club officers and even more reluctance by the average member to call them out for it! Where I have witnessed this behavior, club disintegration usually follows. NOT good for our hobby OR for an organization so desperate for members, it will PAY to attract them.

Regards,

Astro

Sorry, I can't buy into the sudden hysteria that this is some black eye for the AMA. This is just another in a long line of criticisms laid at the feet of the AMA. As if they had someone at this field, watching this happen, and approving it. As if they have the ability to bee all knowing and all seeing? C'mon, be realistic. Even the fact that it was brought to the attention of the AMA and actions taken isn't enough. It's still a "black eye"

Astro as you visit all these fields and noticed the higher than average rate of rule violation by the club officers, what have you done about it? Have you spoken up as an AMA cardmember? Are you somehow equally responsible for not speaking up. Are these clubs suddenly a black eye for the AMA as well? If you feel that way because of this video it should hold true for all other similar instances of rules violation you see in person?

There is no magic or mystery to what BH or I said...it comes down to making every member of the club responsible for safety. If it means some folks will get bent out of shape when they are told of infractions, too bad. If they are mature, they will accept it. If not, they will deal with an administrative process put into place for FAIRNESS...not knee jerk reactionary measures. Case by Case, fact based, outcome based. Obviously message delivery important, but the takeaway still needs to be that we are a self policing club, and hobby. It has worked very well for 80 years and will continue to, and along the way some policies and procedures will change. One or two folks here want a safety utopia at all costs, and that's just not going to happen.

The attempt to rope in the MR/Drone separations is a non issue, it has nothing to do with this video, just another attempt to throw a negative light on them. As is the dig at the AMA for "paying" to attract members....the anti ama sentiment runs deep, all issues lead back to them.

Objection! :) Facts not in evidence! :p

I guess I just like factual evidence Hydro, not supposition, rumor, generalizations, fear mongering, and agenda driven narratives. And thought it's categorized here in these fora as sheeple/fanboy/cheerleader/rosecoloredlenses kinda thing, I give people the benefit of the doubt where possible, and try not to jump on the torch and pitchfork bandwagon when possible. Different strokes 'n all.

That will be fodder as per the usual, but it is what it is. Should also point out that none of this takes away from the scrutiny this guy deserves (and ensuing actions taken against him if there are any), as well as the clubs, for engaging in this activity and feeling the need to post it up online for all to see. If he's a member, and if everyone there was an AMA and club cardholder, what they allowed wasn't wise. Memorializing it wasn't wise. Sure it's cool to watch, but for those of us in the hobby, it's cringe worthy to some degree. The fact that someone stumbled upon it and wants to use it to promote a longstanding agenda of anti-AMA sentiment shouldn't be taken as evidence that this gives the hobby a bad name overall. If I cared I would go back and look at how many views it got, but I doubt it's many. I would make a educated guess that most if not all of the folks seeing that video were not members of the public who came away thinking, wow, I'm going to list all the things that were wrong with that video. C'mon now. At best they watched it and moved on.

There are literally thousands and thousands of videos of RC hi jinks out there, this is not that much different. Only the fact that it hit on two recent and relevant points.

Is this what we've really come to now....combing the internet for videos like this and then doing a blow by blow screenshot analysis of them? If folks have the time to do that....well god bless. Have at it.