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Franklin, I take his definition as reality. What he describes is what we currently have and have had for over 50 years. It's the system that historically has worked. We have the same AMA that we did in the '80s. Membership was up simply because there was more interest in the hobby. Enough that the clubs flourished and mom and pop hobby shops were all doing well. The drop in AMA membership is simply a reflection of a drop in interest in the hobby. You can quote the 800,000 registered with the FAA all you want but the reality is that they are using their vehicles as a camera platform for the most part and want to fly in exotic locations for the pictures/video. Ever wonder why the negative threads get a great deal,of traffic but the positive threads get ignored for the most part. That was my little experiment a week ago. I started a very positive thread about an event and a young man who was interested in taking up the hobby. First comment was a negative comment about the young man's appearance. That is the quality of the platform on which you choose to use. |
Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
(Post 12463161)
...I take his definition as reality. What he describes is what we currently have and have had for over 50 years.
IF AMA is successful in making CBO membership mandatory, then those 800,000 "rogues" described by Rich Hanson will be looking for a home. What I'm showing is that in the big scheme of things, it will be very easy for a competitor to AMA to emerge. Many of the things people "assume" must be part of a CBO simply are not spelled out in the statute. And based on their financials, AMA can ill afford competition ... for the reasons you mention. It is for that reason I think AMA's push for the Sanford Amendment (with explicit membership requirement) as well as their continued parroting that "...we believe membership is required..." is, ultimately, a monumental strategic miscalculation. |
Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
(Post 12463161)
Ever wonder why the negative threads get a great deal,of traffic but the positive threads get ignored for the most part.
I guess when all your looking for is negativity , negativity is all your gonna find . |
LOL I did say " Threads " as in plural did I not? What makes them negative are the terms such as " Taj Muncie " and " Dear Leader ". I have no issues with Franklin making his points but why the show while he does so. He is very good at stirring the pot. As far as me looking for negativity? Aren't you the guy who made insulting assumptions about a young man based solely on his appearance? |
Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
(Post 12463180)
What makes them negative are the terms such as " Taj Muncie " and " Dear Leader ". I have no issues with Franklin making his points but why the show while he does so.
|
Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
(Post 12463180)
LOL I did say " Threads " as in plural did I not? What makes them negative are the terms such as " Taj Muncie " and " Dear Leader ". I have no issues with Franklin making his points but why the show while he does so. He is very good at stirring the pot. As far as me looking for negativity? Aren't you the guy who made insulting assumptions about a young man based solely on his appearance? |
Nice attitude........there are a great many things I can do as well but I don't due to my personal ethical standards. |
Originally Posted by init4fun
(Post 12463184)
Yep , sure sounds like negativity from here ..... All your talk of "stirring the pot" would be just a wee bit more believable if you yourself weren't holding that industrial sized ladle .....
Why? Because I have a different opinion then yours? If I were to join Franklin's witch hunt as you have I would be able to say just about anything and you would have no issue with me then. You have no credibility with me after you bashed a handicapped young man! |
Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
(Post 12463186)
Why? Because I have a different opinion then yours? If I were to join Franklin's witch hunt as you have I would be able to say just about anything and you would have no issue with me then. You have no credibility with me after you bashed a handicapped young man! |
Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
(Post 12463161)
That was my little experiment a week ago.
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I'm sure that helped you ease your conscious. LOL |
Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
(Post 12463186)
If I were to join Franklin's witch hunt as you have I would be able to say just about anything and you would have no issue with me then.
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In the original 336 bill that the AMA wrote they used the language to describe their CBO as a nationwide one so as to prevent local clubs from quilaflying is that no longer the case?
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Originally Posted by ira d
(Post 12463195)
In the original 336 bill that the AMA wrote they used the language to describe their CBO as a nationwide one so as to prevent local clubs from quilaflying is that no longer the case?
For example, let's say the ultra low cost CBO gets established, meets all the criteria of Sanford. I think if they have members in more than one state, it's easy to say it's "nationwide." Now, let's suppose that FAA is looking to poke AMA in the eye after the lawsuit foolishness. FAA recognizes the ultra cheap CBO. On what grounds would AMA sue? That the FAA interpretation of an undefined word is wrong? Not likely to go very far. |
I think the main characteristic of a CBO would be to promote and further the hobby of model aviation.
They should also have a comprehensive set of common sense rules for the safe operation of all forms of model aircraft. These safety rules need not be horribly different for different types of model aircraft.
In place of a magazine, an emailed newsletter (my local AMA club sends out a newsletter in pdf form complete with photos and images every month at NO COST to club members). Email notices of TFRs or even have a website that displays feeds from the FAA regarding TFRs in various areas. A website (one that actually functions and has working links) could be created by volunteer members with the skill set. As Franklin pointed out, the non profit status is a matter of paperwork and relatively low cost. Encourage members and clubs to involve the public in their local areas and work with local schools and youth associations to demonstrate and promote RC model aircraft as a potential hobby. Seems like a simple set of requirements. No need for a central Association flying site or even having a central physical location for staff or leadership meetings. Everything could be decentralized and done online including any required periodic meetings. It wouldn't necessarily have to be cheaper though it should be able to be. I have no issue with the $75 I spend on membership, what some of us have an issue with is receiving value for our membership dollars. A new CBO that offered more value especially for the non traditional hobbyist could do well IMHO |
Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
(Post 12463186)
Why? Because I have a different opinion then yours? If I were to join Franklin's witch hunt as you have I would be able to say just about anything and you would have no issue with me then. You have no credibility with me after you bashed a handicapped young man! |
Appowner has asked a great question here "What do you expect from a CBO" and has gotten some great responses . Now here's mine ;
I believe first and foremost a CBO should be looking out for the best interests of the hobby it's serving , and by which it's own future would be assured . To look out for self preservation above even the hobby's own best interests (the whole legally forced membership thing) has poisoned the Well and clearly shown that we have inadvertently created what very well could become "The ruling class of aeromedeling" if the forced membership to hobby fly a model aircraft attempt ever becomes reality . The future of the hobby itself at all costs , including the possible cost of the CBO itself , that's what I expect from a CBO ..... |
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rcu...814548b7e6.png
Originally Posted by Appowner
(Post 12463313)
The issue I have is you have contributed exactly zero to this thread. You've done nothing but rant and make accusations off topic. If I could ban you from the thread, I would. Now quit acting like a spoiled brat and either stick to the question at hand or go somewhere else.
Thats laughable however to quote the leader of the cyber bullies......BECAUSE I CAN! But what the heck, let's answer the question. What do I expect out of the ONLY current CBO we have. 1. Provide me with access to flying sites throughout the country. 2. Provide me and others with safety guidelines. 3. Publish rules and judging guides for all forms of model airplane competitions. 4. Provide me with liability insurance. ( I am currently not a home owner so AMA insurance is what I have ) 5. Provide an annual hobby show that I can attend with several friends. 6. Provide a monthly Magazine so that should I choose I am able to send in material to be published and be a vehicle for me to see some happenings in my district. 7. Provide me with a DVP that I can sit down with face to face and voice any concernes 8. Provide an annual Nationals contest so that should I choose to attend someday I can. Currently I have about 8 pattern buddies that go every year, finances is not what keeps me from going it's the time. Should I attend I will want to fly both pattern and soaring events. That would require a two week stay. My job may be taking me to Huntsville Al. then the Dream of flying two Nationals events will be a possibility. 9. Represent me and my fellow members to government. These are listed in no particular order. If you take note, the AMA does in fact provide me with all these things. Yes there is always room for improvement but overall I am satisfied with what I get for my 75.00. There are benefits there that most people do not utilize. I realize that in my region I am fortunate enough that on any given day I can drive to any of the 20+ AMA club operated flying sites available to me and fly as a guest and make some new friends. I know that others don't have access to a club site at all within a reasonable travel distance. We enjoy our hobby differently and have different requirements. So please before you pick my list apart keep in mind that the question is what I expect from a CBO, it's not what YOU think I should should expect. There are a great many guys out there that are perfectly happy with the AMA. If there were more we would be hearing from them here on RCU and on RCG. IMO there are only a handful that are calling for the hanging of the AMA. Recently on Facebook someone asked guys to post their AMA number and how long they had their number. It did not take long for the list to exceed 250 guys |
Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
(Post 12463353)
...... Recently on Facebook someone asked guys to post their AMA number and how long they had their number. It did not take long for the list to exceed 250 guys
PS , I'm AMA 80274 , held that number since the 1970s . Yes I do believe in our organization and yes I do believe certain things could be done differently . If that makes me a "cyber bully" then so be it , or maybe the real issue here is that YOUR looking too hard to find the "Us VS Them" in every discussion , even one about what makes a CBO appealing to it's members . Self reflection , dude , , , , and remember that every one of us "cyber bullies" ARE your fellow AMA members , whether you like the way we think or not ;) |
No what makes you and others " Cyber Bullies " is when an opposing opinion is presented, it gets multiple responses that resort to name calling, sarcasm, quoting out of context and attempting to FORCE your values and perspectives onto others. I have absolutely no issue with the way anyone thinks. The measure of any of us me included is how a person behaves. Personally I feel that there are people being shady in these threads and are not completely honest about their motives. |
Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
(Post 12463362)
No what makes you and others " Cyber Bullies " is when an opposing opinion is presented, it gets multiple responses that resort to name calling, sarcasm, quoting out of context and attempting to FORCE your values and perspectives onto others. I have absolutely no issue with the way anyone thinks. The measure of any of us me included is how a person behaves. Personally I feel that there are people being shady in these threads and are not completely honest about their motives. Hobby first , CBO second ...... |
Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
(Post 12463353)
But what the heck, let's answer the question. What do I expect out of the ONLY current CBO we have.
1. Provide me with access to flying sites throughout the country. (technically not required by the legal definition) 2. Provide me and others with safety guidelines. 3. Publish rules and judging guides for all forms of model airplane competitions.(technically not required by the legal definition) 4. Provide me with liability insurance. ( I am currently not a home owner so AMA insurance is what I have ) (technically not required by the legal definition) 5. Provide an annual hobby show that I can attend with several friends.(technically not required by the legal definition) 6. Provide a monthly Magazine so that should I choose I am able to send in material to be published and be a vehicle for me to see some happenings in my district.(technically not required by the legal definition) 7. Provide me with a DVP that I can sit down with face to face and voice any concernes (technically not required by the legal definition) 8. Provide an annual Nationals contest so that should I choose to attend someday I can. Currently I have about 8 pattern buddies that go every year, finances is not what keeps me from going it's the time. Should I attend I will want to fly both pattern and soaring events. That would require a two week stay. My job may be taking me to Huntsville Al. then the Dream of flying two Nationals events will be a possibility.(technically not required by the legal definition) 9. Represent me and my fellow members to government.(technically not required by the legal definition) These are listed in no particular order. If you take note, the AMA does in fact provide me with all these things. Yes there is always room for improvement but overall I am satisfied with what I get for my 75.00. There are benefits there that most people do not utilize. I realize that in my region I am fortunate enough that on any given day I can drive to any of the 20+ AMA club operated flying sites available to me and fly as a guest and make some new friends. I know that others don't have access to a club site at all within a reasonable travel distance. We enjoy our hobby differently and have different requirements. So please before you pick my list apart keep in mind that the question is what I expect from a CBO, it's not what YOU think I should should expect. There are a great many guys out there that are perfectly happy with the AMA. If there were more we would be hearing from them here on RCU and on RCG. IMO there are only a handful that are calling for the hanging of the AMA. Recently on Facebook someone asked guys to post their AMA number and how long they had their number. It did not take long for the list to exceed 250 guys As for 250 guys listing something on the AMA FB page, when a cat meme can get 10's of THOUSANDS of comments, 250 is NOTHING. Even if we assume AMA has 200,000 members (which they don't), those 250 represent less than two tenths of one percent. |
Of course this is the response I EXPECTED from you Franklin. I give an honest answer about what my expectations are and your mission is to pick it apart even after I openly admitted that we enjoy the hobby differently and I have never criticized your way of enjoying the hobby. That's why the question wasn't answered in the first place, I knew what was going to happen. So a different perspective on my 250 Facebook guys. Out of the 800,000 rouges how many are here between RCU and RCG supporting your ideals? I'll be generous and give you 25. |
Many of the things that Franklin says are not required really are not, but OTOH are really needed to make it easier for the hobby to operate and advance. If it was not for AMA's attempt at mandatory membership
I would not have a problem with them. |
Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
(Post 12463383)
Of course this is the response I EXPECTED from you Franklin. I give an honest answer about what my expectations are and your mission is to pick it apart even after I openly admitted that we enjoy the hobby differently and I have never criticized your way of enjoying the hobby. That's why the question wasn't answered in the first place, I knew what was going to happen. So a different perspective on my 250 Facebook guys. Out of the 800,000 rouges how many are here between RCU and RCG supporting your ideals? I'll be generous and give you 25. What you "want" out of an organization implies that you're willing to pay for it, which you said you were. But the question will be what happens when AMA continues losing members snd is unable to dramatically cut spending. Say they do what they've done in years past and raise the dues. Are those "wants" still worth the increased dues? You get the idea. |
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