Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??
 

Hey all,

This came from the thread, "What's your opinion on the AMA?" Seeing as the switch was was turned off there... I thought I would start this thread......

I'm really interested in what the AMA advocates have to say.

Please limit this topic to constructive ideas and not bashing contest, although fun to read.

RE: Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??
 

I don't think the great majority of members think there is a problem with AMA or that it has a poor image. If they belong to a club, they're required to join, they send their check, get their card and that's it until the cycle repeats itself next year. They could care less what goes on in Muncie unless it has a direct impact on them.
BRG,
Jon

RE: Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??
 

Our complaining keeps the people on their toe's at HQ, and gives them an idea what is going on out here. And they don't get their foot caught in the key board as much as some of us!

RE: Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??
 

Can the poor opinion of the AMA be changed ? Yes.

Will it be changed ? Unlikely, in my opinion, at least until the leadership changes to one that recognizes that the AMA is supposed to serve the interests of its membership, and not vice versa.

Gordon

RE: Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??
 

Like any organization with elected officials, those who put the officers in place are the ones going to get the service. Individuals have practically no say against the SIGs and until someone pays more attention to us as individuals, it will not change.

RE: Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??
 

Much of the poor opinion of the AMA is due to the fact that the majority do not realize what the AMA does. AMA's main product is convenience, and it affects each and every AMA member each and every day. They minimize the amount of paperwork required at the club level to the point where you can usually convince someone to do it for little more than free club membership and a hearty pat on the back.

For most of us, we write a check for dues and flash our AMA card at the membership director, and we're good for the entire year. At a meet, we just sign our name and flash our AMA card. We don't realize just how convenient that is.

People ask, "Why can't I use my homeowner's insurance?" Take a look at your AMA card. Take a look at your homeowner's policy. A quick look at your AMA card tells anyone who cares that you're covered to fly for the calendar year. You'd have to read the entire homeowner's policy and have an insurance lawyer at your disposal to interpret it, just to see if it covers R/C flying on properties other than your own. On top of that, you need to produce a receipt or contact the carrier directly to make sure the policy is paid up to date, each and every time the policy holder wants to fly...

Convenience sells, but it's hard to describe until you experience it yourself.

RE: Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??
 

You are right Matt. It's all about insurance.

RE: Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??
 

The impression that there are big problems with the AMA comes from the vocal minority. I think the reason things don't change and incumbants get voted in is because the majority doesn't perceive a problem with the status quo. The vocal minority here do serve a purpose, to keep the EC on their toes (as Outlaw so elequently mentioned) and that's not such a bad thing.

RE: Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??
 

As someone else said... I don't think there is a poor opinion of the AMA that prevails.

There are some with poor opinions of one or more of the current AMA leadership "cadre" (can't think of a better word...) If enough people shared that opinion, considering the extremely low vote turnout in AMA elections, it would b easy to get a change in that group IF you could get someone, who meets the requrements for being elected, to volunteer to run against them. Its kind of hard to get someone voted out if you don't get a replacement onto the ballot. (but that's reality...:eek:)

RE: Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??
 

I have grown up with the AMA, (for 63 consecutive years) and I like the AMA. They have done so many good things in the past that it is hard for me to criticize them in any way. I know a few of the individuals now working for the AMA, and I find them to be fine people. I know some of the current VP's, and I can say the same for them. I'd bet that about 90% of the current AMA members don't know anyone at AMA, could care less, and vote accordingly. That's why it's so hard for the AMA bashers to make the changes they want, and elect the persons to office that they want.

Without the AMA, I can assure you we wouldn't be where we are today, especially in radio control aircraft. They fought especially hard to obtain our needed frequencies. My first radio was on 27mhz., then on 465 mhz., then back to 27mhz., and finally to 72mhz. You Johnny come lately guys can't appreciate the work that has been done before you to make this hobby interesting, safe, and affordable.

AMA isn't going to change, so you might as well look at the good things that they do, that in my opinion, far outweigh the bad. The few people that get on this AMA forum and continually complain about the AMA and its officers, would be better served if they put their talents to work for the AMA instead of downgrading them all the time. If you have a better way of doing something, don't just get on here and complain - rather - write it down and send it to you elected VP with a positive attitude. Ask them - why not? In those cases where you don't like your elected VP, and you advertise that fact here or somewhere else, then you don't stand much of a chance of being heard. Tough - but that's the way the cookie crumbles.

I don't think that the AMA has as many problems or problem people as we are led to believe on this AMA forum. That's my opinion.

RE: Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??
 

I am one who supports the AMA, but I certainly hope you are wrong about this. Any organization or government that doesn't represent its members is nothing more than a dictatorship. The U.S. is a great country, it has changed since it first came into existance. I hope the AMA can do the same when/if required.

RE: Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??
 

To Jim:

Well said. I too have been in AMA for years and years and years...

They have made our passtime possible.

It may not be perfect, but it's better than any other option we have.

RE: Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??
 

First of all if you are basing you assumption on this forum You might want to rethink it:eek:

The members posting here don't even comprise 1% of the AMA membership;)

Every organization has those that disagree within their membership ranks problem is the 99% don't bother their heads with the doings of this forum (they're probably to busy flying)[X(]

RE: Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??
 

Definitely not as restrictive as the British have to deal with... http://www.bmfa.org/achievement/

Anyone for OFICIAL AMA certification requirements on that level?
I can hear the screams already.

RE: Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??
 

Don't ever forget WE have made this pastime possible not them.We are the membership the AMA is here to serve us.If we wish to take control so be it. If you dont like something Vote make your voice heard this our AMA we pay for it.Complaining never solves a thing.
My club and land owner require insurance and the card if I want to fly I just put up the 58 and go fly.I'm not a big fan of what goes on nor do I ever expect to go and fly in Muncie or do I care too. The majority will rule untill the minority pony's up.

RE: Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??
 

I have flown RC extensivley in numerous countries, including the UK and the US, and find the US rules to be MUCH more restrictive. Last time I was back in Britain (last Nov) and I discussed RC flying with some of my friends there, they had a good old laugh at how ridiculous a set of rules I have to put up with compared to what they have.

Gordon

RE: Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??
 

I am going to jump in now and add my two cents worth. I don't disagree or agree with any particular thing that anyone has to say however, I hear the diffences of the AMA of the past and what is happening now and possibly in the future. I worries me that their are too many people that are very negative or very complacent about an organization that was developed to support our hobby/sport/past-time ...whatever you want to call it.

We have guys our club that are strong supporters of AMA but can only mention what they have done in the past (e.g. additional frequences) to support their case. Then they say that they give us great insurance coverage and a great magazine. That's good too... That's if you consider "secondary" insurance great coverage and believe me I don't think they are loosing money from the magazine with all the advertizing revenue they are able to generate with it.

Then on the other hand, I hear a lot more negativity (just within this forum alone). I have heard where an individual was seriously injured at an air race resulting from a mid air collision, the motor came off and hit this individual in the knee, taking out his knee. A CD at the event told him not to worry about anything that it would be taken care off. Apparently, later the pilot was sued as AMA totally turned their backs..... (True or Not? - Anyone know more about this?) I'm now hearing about the turbine... Li-Poly... and many other things, to name a few. I begin to wonder myself, if all the efforts my club puts into and gives back to the comunity is worth the effort for the AMA "head nodding" of approval (and they have turned their back on us as well). It's seems like a lot of people are saying, "The Good Old Boys and their high dollar toys", is what AMA is all about. You don't see Mr. Hyde (and the boys) flying electrics so what do you think he cares about Li-Poly's and their usage....?

Frankly from all the negative I have seen lately and nothing positive to counter it, at this point, I am ashamed of AMA and displeased with being forced to have to be a part of it......[sm=thumbdown.gif]

They've got the MONOPOLY... Maybe the need to be humbled again, like the rest of us......

(Edited for grammer and spelling)

RE: Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??
 

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I don't want to get into an argument over someones opinion. Actually I agree with part of what you said. BUT, the part I have quoted above often shows up in this thread and frankly annoys me. Particularly since it is presented as fact.

Everyone should be clear...NO ONE IS FORCED TO BELONG TO THE AMA!

Everyone can either join or not join. If one chooses not to join that is their business. They just can't fly at an AMA sactioned field. No big deal. They can buy property, or start a non-ama club that buys property, get an insurance policy (or not) and fly all they want.

If you feel it's a monopoly, why not start a competitive organization? The organization could have sanctioned events for ITS members just as the AMA does. Having more than one organization is not a new idea. I believe the Btitish have two (correct me if that is wrong), and there was the sportflyers association here several years ago.

Sorry to rant, but it is kind of a pet peeve of mine when people say the were FORCED to join AMA.[:@]

RE: Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??
 

P-51B,
Philosophically, and from a legal standpoint, you are correct; no one is "forced" to join the AMA. Reality is quite another thing. Most people do not have the resources to go out and by land to fly on, so they join a local club. Since the vast majority of clubs are AMA sanctioned clubs, to fly there you MUST join the AMA. Ergo, you are "forced" to join the AMA to fly at most club fields.
As far as a competeing orgainization, SFA's been there and done that. I have no interest in rehashing the AMA/SFA saga, but IMHO any other orgainization would meet the same roadblocks and ultimately the same fate.
BRG,
Jon

RE: Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??
 

The subject of this thread is similar to the question, "Have you stopped beating your wife?" There's no way to answer it, because the question has assumptions built in. If you answer the question, you end up agreeing with the assumption. But, I'll try:

Given what I hear on this forum, there is an extremely tiny, but vocal, group of folks who hate the AMA. From what I've read here, it is extremely unlikely that their opinion will change. My guess is of the AMA members, 90% have no opinion whatsoever, 9% have a high opinion, and less than 1% have your "poor opinion".

RE: Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??
 

This thread's off track. There has not been one suggestion made as to HOW the AMA can improve. No suggestions are ever made in these threads, because nobody has any idea how they'd do it differently. Very few people know the kind of crap the AMA EC has to deal with, the legal, financial and political hoops they have to jump through just to give us the ability to take off, fly simple circuits, and land without risking everything we'll ever own in our lifetime should something unfortunate happen. I know I only got a small taste from my conversations with my District VP, Dave Mathewson, and I do not envy him in his position.

So, what to do?

Take out the "silly rules" in the Safety Code? Are you perpared to pay higher dues because without those rules the AMA can't find an insurance carrier and has to become self-insured?

Get rid of the insurance? Are you prepared to become your club's "insurance czar," keeping track of everyone's homeowner's policies to make sure they're paid up and that they cover R/C? Is your club prepared to pay higher dues for a private insurance policy to cover your flying field's owner? Is your club prepared to pay tens of thousands in legal fees out of pocket when a neighbor sues you for noise? Is your club's president prepared to go to jail if you lose in court and can't pay the settlement?

Get rid of Muncie? What do you do with the money then? Part of the reason behind Muncie was to protect the AMA's assets. If it's all liquid, it's that much easier for the ONE TRUE money-grubbing creature, the personal injury lawyer, to get his grubby little mitts on a bigger piece of the pie for himself and his client.

What kind of legal crusade can the AMA go on to prove its worth? What does Average Joe Modeler need that he does not have now?

RE: Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??
 

Beg to differ. In my first post I indicate that the issues can be resolved if we have new leadership.

Getting a leader who understands that the AMA should be promoting the hobby, rather than constantly looking for new ways to restrict it, would be a huge improvement in the AMA.

a) Yes, I would be prepared to pay more than $15 or so per year for insurance. I already do, in fact, as I have AMA, UMA, Homeowners, a PUP, etc.

b) You seem to be presupposing that the "silly rules" exist because the insurance carriers require them. From what I have heard, that is totally incorrect, and the "silly rules" exist because Dave Brown et al decided they want those rules, then they try to justify them after the fact with "Uhh... this might kinda, maybe help us be more insurable... maybe".

Gordon

RE: Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??
 

[/quote]
Everyone should be clear...NO ONE IS FORCED TO BELONG TO THE AMA!

Everyone can either join or not join. If one chooses not to join that is their business. They just can't fly at an AMA sactioned field. No big deal. They can buy property, or start a non-ama club that buys property, get an insurance policy (or not) and fly all they want.

If you feel it's a monopoly, why not start a competitive organization? The organization could have sanctioned events for ITS members just as the AMA does. Having more than one organization is not a new idea. I believe the Btitish have two (correct me if that is wrong), and there was the sportflyers association here several years ago.
[/quote]


P-51B...

Come on, be realistic, it is a big deal.... Not all R/C folks have the resources to go out and buy property, I sure don't. I don't live out in BFE somewhere where potential flying sites abound. That's my choice of course but I've gone where the work is bud. I don't want to work (rather be rc-ing 24/7) but I have to support myself and my family. Choosing to do otherwise is not a respectable choice.

I don't pretend to remember much about the Sport Flyers. There were clubs who chartered with both the AMA and Sport Flyers. If I remember correctly, the AMA would not sanction any AMA events at those sites. I'd bet that the AMA played hard ball in other ways too.

The bottom line is that all is not black and white or cut and dry as you seem to imply.

While I'm a supporter of the AMA (although they can keep their magazine, IMO), they are realistically the only game in town and most people have to pay the AMA to play. Sounds pretty darn close to a "monopoly" to me, but not too bad a one IMO (in my opinion).

Regards,
Bart

RE: Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??
 

I do know if we didn't have the AMA we couldn't fly the way we do now because we would not
have the r/c frequencies reserved for aircraft only.

RE: Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??
 

Maybe that's because the originator didn't ask that question or point out any problems...other than his perception of the AMAs image. I happen to think the AMAs image is doing OK. However to begin looking at your new question (which frankly is very good question) I think any organization has room for improvement.

I personally would love to see regional AMA flying sites, then State AMA flying sites, then multiple state flying sites. But am in the teeny weeny itsy bitsy minority on that one.[:o]

I would like to see a change in the requirements for who can run for office.

I would like to see the membership actually care enough to vote.

I am sure I could think of other things, but that's not what the original question asked. Maybe you would like to start a new thread with your question Matt?




F106 & B. Bixel,

Your both making excuses rather than solving problems. O.K. you can't afford to buy property on your own (I can't either, but I am happy with the AMA set-up).

You could get some of your flying buddies together, raise some money, buy as group. After all, most clubs have to find property somehow. Set up your own rules, and get the club some insurance. Or set up a program to verify that someones homeowners insurance covers them. There are non-AMA clubs around the country. The Omahawks come to mind off the top of my head. They have a deal with a public park if I recall.

It may require some work or creativity, but it can be done.