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RE: Obsolete the Pin Box!
No, if you agree with me you're just smarter, positive or negative don't matter. If you have a solution such as something the AMA should do differantly with 37 years of experiance I'd like to hear it. Otherwise your just a whinner.
Scar, I grok what you're saying. |
RE: Obsolete the Pin Box!
Futaba 14 channel radio with matching serial number recognition Thanks for the information. Bill |
RE: Obsolete the Pin Box!
What would really make SS attractive would be to do it in the existing 72 MHz RC frequency allocation bill |
RE: Obsolete the Pin Box!
ORIGINAL: BillS Is Spread Spectrum disallowed on existing model frequencies? Spread Spectrum is not allowed on our current RC frequencies, although some of the amateur band might allow it, I do not know for sure. Another of the advantages of the system we have been testing is that it is compatible with all existing equipment, you can fly side by side with narrowband users on any band. |
RE: Obsolete the Pin Box!
Hi ya'll,
Seems the theme of all this is frequency control and disgust with the current "pin box". Do know there is an excellent soluttion available NOW. First, for the past couple of years our club has watched a model fly with any and all with no regard for frequencies and with perfect success. This is Spread Spectrum R/C and in short if you have a SS system you can fly at will anywhere and anytime. For all practicle purposes Spread Spectrum is immune to interference and performance is equal to or better than current R/C. Best of all Spread Spectrum systems are available NOW, if you would like to know more or details contact the following nice guy> [email protected] Good luck! Hal [email protected] |
RE: Obsolete the Pin Box!
Mr. Matt,
Your information was really interesting. I am beginning to get the impression that many here don’t understand the significance of the discussion. That of course makes the ultimate task of turning creative genius into profit much more difficult. Although I think your approach is absolutely great many seem married to and accepting of ancient technology as the greatest thing since sliced bread. One can only hope that your discussions directly with AMA were more positively received. Wonder if folks understand that a frequency pin is UNnecessary with your approach. Also it is assumed that many with your magic box (don’t know what to call it) can fly at the same time. No frequency pin required. Wonder if they know that every radio at the field can be turned on and you will not be shot down. Wonder if it is known that a beginner with a new radio who doesn’t know that rules exist cannot kill your airplane. It doesn’t seem like the real important aspects are being realized. Thanks again. Bill |
RE: Obsolete the Pin Box!
Well I hope the theme has been about safety. The Pin Box is simply a minor nuance, unsafe because it relies on people both being knowledgeable and performing perfectly. At the very best it is a flawed concept.
Writing the email address now. Bill |
RE: Obsolete the Pin Box!
ORIGINAL: Scar I gotta admire anyone who quotes Heinlein, or Lazarus Long. SNIP |
RE: Obsolete the Pin Box!
ORIGINAL: Jim Branaum ORIGINAL: Scar I gotta admire anyone who quotes Heinlein, or Lazarus Long. SNIP |
RE: Obsolete the Pin Box!
ORIGINAL: BasinBum Horace, I really liked your little history lesson, even if it was lost on Bill. Could you tell us about when they invented the wheel when you were a kid? I've seen Matt's system fly and it looks a lot like a Hobbico Trainer to me. I've also seen the new 2048 resolution $2400 Futaba 14 channel radio with matching receiver that uses serial number recognition but, I think it's more for theft prevention than interferrance. It does have an MP3 player built in so you can listen to some relaxing music when a kid with a trainer he just got at Hobby People puts in your $10,000 turbine. Is Spread Spectrum really needed by guys like Guinn who must fly in Bo Fo Egypt because I've seen a midair every other time I go to the field but, than again I'm in the middle of Los Angeles. I think the vast majority fly in remote areas and they just don't see the need to move up from their Quatro radio. I think SoCal Glider would still spend more time complaining online than pony up the cost of a new radio to fly Zagi wings off a hill. Roger |
RE: Obsolete the Pin Box!
Come on Roger, you know what I'm saying. If your field isn't crowded in the first place why would you justify the expense of Spread Spectrum? It's OK though, I know you'd never pass up an oppourtunity to return the zing.
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RE: Obsolete the Pin Box!
ORIGINAL: BasinBum Come on Roger, you know what I'm saying. If your field isn't crowded in the first place why would you justify the expense of Spread Spectrum? It's OK though, I know you'd never pass up an oppourtunity to return the zing. yeah--but 'm still several "zings" behind....:D:D:D The English Language iz very precise, you know. You shouldn't mix metaphores, and use a spel Czecer at all times. I read that in a red letter somewhere.... |
RE: Obsolete the Pin Box!
ORIGINAL: BasinBum Come on Roger, you know what I'm saying. If your field isn't crowded in the first place why would you justify the expense of Spread Spectrum? It's OK though, I know you'd never pass up an oppourtunity to return the zing. It also has fail safe (Rember, PCM is not required! And all for <$120 US for a reciever, including crystal. I'd like to see more data on this, but it looks promising |
RE: Obsolete the Pin Box!
Roger,
I talked to Howard from FMA at the Hobby Visions show last week. He told me they flew a plane turned on a second TX on the same channel and didn't loose control for the most part. It depended on which TX was closer and the test didn't sound very scientific but the system seems to have some merit. If you couple it with their co-pilot and the system goes to a failsafe mode where the co-pilot maintains level flight and you can preprogram a flat turn at 1/4 throttle it would at least buy you some time to run around the pits screaming like a madman. |
RE: Obsolete the Pin Box!
"When in panic/ or in Doubt/ run in circles/ scream and shout" seems to work for me.
But this is a step--and in the right direction. ORIGINAL: BasinBum Roger, I talked to Howard from FMA at the Hobby Visions show last week. He told me they flew a plane turned on a second TX on the same channel and didn't loose control for the most part. It depended on which TX was closer and the test didn't sound very scientific but the system seems to have some merit. If you couple it with their co-pilot and the system goes to a failsafe mode where the co-pilot maintains level flight and you can preprogram a flat turn at 1/4 throttle it would at least buy you some time to run around the pits screaming like a madman. |
RE: Obsolete the Pin Box!
The discussions remind me of the hoopla about the 1991 standards. At the Toledo show, I asked around about how the major manufacturers were going to meet them. They couldn't say anything. Expensive and the technology wasn't there. Then I stopped at Bill Cannon's booth, and asked the same question, along with the comment about how a small manufacturer like him was going to meet the specs without the relatively large development budgets. He actually had a fully compliant display system at his booth, almost ready for type acceptance and ready to go into production. And, because of new technology surface mount chips available, I seem to remember that he thought he could reduce his system price by 10 or 15 dollars. Said there are those who ***** about not being able to do something, and there are those who go out and do it.
If SS IS the wave of the future, and will do what is claimed for it, my next question is 'How Much?'. While there are a lot of people owning one or two of the top end computer radios, most of the radios at our field are the under $200 plane jane radios. There is a MUCH BIGGER group of us, especially those of us who are approaching retirement or who have retired, who cannot buy expensive radios. If the SS radios are going to be expensive, and if they force the elimination of current radios, I'm out of R/C. Think what a high priced mandatory radio will do to the ARF Park Flyer industry that builds volume by selling RTF packages at under $200. At least in this part of the country, there is still considerable activity in CL and FF. I'd just be going back to my roots. For the people that are always complaining about the AMA, If you are not part of the solution, you could be said to be part of the problem. You can still snail mail or E-mail your local VPs or even the EC. Or why not run for district VP and try to guide the system into productive change? |
RE: Obsolete the Pin Box!
ORIGINAL: 50+AirYears If SS IS the wave of the future, and will do what is claimed for it, my next question is 'How Much?'. While there are a lot of people owning one or two of the top end computer radios, most of the radios at our field are the under $200 plane jane radios. There is a MUCH BIGGER group of us, especially those of us who are approaching retirement or who have retired, who cannot buy expensive radios. If the SS radios are going to be expensive, and if they force the elimination of current radios, I'm out of R/C. The SS sytems as I envision them would be completely compatible with our current radios, you would not have to buy any SS radio.\ at all if you did not want to. |
RE: Obsolete the Pin Box!
Any new technology radios coming out in the near future will not be aimed at the parkflyer / old retired trainer flyer. They, like most new expensive stuff, will be for the TOC, F3C, FAI, Turbine pilots that have U$ 10,000+ invested in their airframes. The will buy it. Look at the new Futaba 14MZ radio: U$2000 for the Tx alone and I know of at least 5 people who already have it on order. The tech will trickle down and become affordable over a decade.
I don't expect the average 65+ year old sport flyer to jump on the SS bandwagon. I stll see wideband radios commonly in use by pilots that don't want to switch to the 'newfangled' narrow stuff. Fritz - who will go 'NewTech' asap |
RE: Obsolete the Pin Box!
Matt
I agree with you that it would take a large capital investment to design and produce a DSS RC system with all the bell and whistles that today's radio have. And as soon as it was released for sale it's most likely that the 2nd one sold would find it's way to China to be reversed engineered before the ink in the instruction manual's was dry. So that there will be a record of this and some day I can say that I was the first one to think of it design it and do it, the following is how we at AUAV.net do the servo programing in our DSS RC system. One of the thing that we here at AUAV.net have done is to abandon the concept of programing the transmitter with the servo dual rates, ATV's and mixes we program all that into the receiver this may sound strange and backward to some but what it dose is let you fly an unlimited number of airplanes or helis or both ( for us it's UAV's) with one transmitter and never have to worry about did I select the correct model just after you take off. Because all of that data is programed into the receiver not the transmitter. The next thing is if you sell your model to some with the same type of transmitter then they do not have to down load the programming from your transmitter or have to reprogram there transmitter for that model all of the programming is in the receiver and stays with the airplane. Also each DSS transmitter has it's own unique ID number or serial number so that only that transmitter will only work a receiver that has a matching ID number or serial number these numbers can be changed in the event that a transmitter or receiver is sold. I am confident that the engineers at Futaba, JR, Hitech and all of the radio manufactures the world over lurk on RCU so it will be just a matter time before one of them finds this posting and runs to his boss with this brand new concept that came to him in the middle of the night about programming the receiver instead of the transmitter. So all of you that has seen this will know that a little guy in a shop not much bigger that a garage came up with it FIRST. I know of one radio manufacture that is getting ready to do just what I have described and they got the idea from none other than me. So much for non compete and non-disclosure agreements. Dave Jones AUAV.net |
RE: Obsolete the Pin Box!
GREAT IDEA!
The receiver storing programming information for itself is a great idea. Another huge safety leap. Is the programming still done conventionally from the transmitter? And can programming changes be made while in the air? Just curious but how much memory is required to hold programming information for a single model? Acceptance in the marketplace will be easier if the transmitter is used for programming. While it would be more complex the transmitter could appear to have the data but really be passing it along to be stored in the receiver. Just a thought. |
RE: Obsolete the Pin Box!
Bills
Thanks here are your answers Q1 Is the programming still done conventionally from the transmitter? A1 With the system that we are presently using the programing is done with a laptop PC. We do have plains to build the programming interface into the transmitter. We may send the data over the DSS RF link or we may use a data cable from the transmitter to the receiver that's yet to be decided. Q2 And can programming changes be made while in the air? A2 I don't think it is a good Idea to make programing changes with a model in flight we had a guy reverse his ailerons wile doing that. Q3 Just curious but how much memory is required to hold programming information for a single model? A3 It requires much less memory in the receiver to store the programing data for one airplane than it does 10 or 15 airplane in the transmitter. Now I have a question for you. How long do you think it will be before one of the BIG 4 Radio manufactures start to do it and then clam that it was there idea all along? Dave Jones AUAV.net |
RE: Obsolete the Pin Box!
Dave,
I know this is going to come across wrong, because it clearly smacks of "Have you quit beating your wife yet?", but I really don't care WHERE the idea came from if it saves planes due to RFI. I am glad you feel strongly enough about the results of your efforts to share them with the world, thank you. However, I seriously doubt any mfgr will ever allow anyone else in the entire world to claim any knowledge of electronics. Proof can be found in the text of any new radio system manual. |
RE: Obsolete the Pin Box!
Jim
All that I am saying is that I would like to have the credit for the concept, for proving that it works and being the first one to implement it. Go back to the days before we had servo reversing, dual rates and ATV's on our radios. I would bet a $100.00 that there is not one person in the U.S. that can tell you whose ideas they are or what radio manufacture started using them first. 10 or more years from now I would like it to be known that it was my idea and not some guy working at one of the BIG 4. That is all that I am saying. I would like to have the bragging rites the first time I see a guy win a big contest and he is using a receiver that has the programing in the receiver I can say that that was my idea without some yahoo telling me that I am full of it. Dave Jones AUAV.net |
RE: Obsolete the Pin Box!
ORIGINAL: dave jones Jim All that I am saying is that I would like to have the credit for the concept, for proving that it works and being the first one to implement it. Go back to the days before we had servo reversing, dual rates and ATV's on our radios. I would bet a $100.00 that there is not one person in the U.S. that can tell you whose ideas they are or what radio manufacture started using them first. 10 or more years from now I would like it to be known that it was my idea and not some guy working at one of the BIG 4. That is all that I am saying. I would like to have the bragging rites the first time I see a guy win a big contest and he is using a receiver that has the programing in the receiver I can say that that was my idea without some yahoo telling me that I am full of it. Dave Jones AUAV.net |
RE: Obsolete the Pin Box!
I would suggest that the expensive, maybe a couple grand pilots establish their own private fields to fly from. don't show up at our field where all sorts ready to fly are in the air, along with regular RC pilots. the pin box works, only as long as the CLUB enforces it and creates Dicipline. this type of problem exists in every thing we do today--I CAN GET AWAY WITH IT !! think about it. dick
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