RE: Does AMA have a real future?
 

JR;

It has been written, "The 2 most abundant things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity and I don't know which
is the more."

Your posts #73 and #74 clearly evidence that if you were as you think the entire universe, then the universe would be void of hydrogen.

Do you really think the people here are so stupid as to believe that those deals were not made far in advance? Do I ever act as an AMA EC TRAINED CLONE? I don't act on knee-jerk spot events. I think, plan and then act as I so desire.

While you may well display yourself in that level where you obviously place others here, that is your business. However when you blatantly lie about me simply to attempt to sway others, then I think the readers are bright enough to see just where you are coming from. No real worry here for myself, yet you could do better.:eek:

I never said anything about "FINANCIAL". YOU, JR, assume and YOU LIE. Not very gentlemanly you know!

Rather than wasting time with each point, I will simply say that in June of '81, I was thinking that if I did not get on the ballot for EVP then it might be a good thing to get out.
I also knew that I wanted Jim Sears in there as my replacement. Only the timing and the events would determine just when.

I am happy I stayed long enough to do my part in the securing of the frequencies, Nov. '81.

YUCK, JR. Doesn't the words "....Jim Sears, Burgin, KY, was then automatically named District 6 VP based on previous Executive Council decision.” mean anything to you. The deed had been done, or at least all players set in motion.

As far as the April issue of MA which came out in early March, that article was at AMA in early Jan. It was written for the readers WHEN they got it. (Even YOU have enough basic perception to know that.) Had I won the run-off, Jim would be DVP anyway. By 01/22 I knew the results. Besides I wanted JS to be there at that first meeting. I knew I wasn't going.

IMO being EVP is one very easy job as compared to being a DVP. I relate it to being a F/O on a DC-8. The engineer (2/O) does all the work, the Captain has all the responsibility, and the F/O just sits and flies every other leg. Best job ever.:) Like the DVPs do the work, the Pres. gets all the downhill fudge, and the EVP just sits and smiles, or at least so far.[:-]

So JR in all your attempt to discredit one Horrace Cain, you really do have a gift for making it all end with one big laugh. Even I would never have imagined that YOU would have to run to easytiger and yell for Help[sm=drowning.gif]. Now that is one funny thing. Does he pull the cover? :D:D:D

RE: Does AMA have a real future?
 

Why is it that Horrace the Horrible makes the case for himself so very well and misses the point about all the rest?

RE: Does AMA have a real future?
 

It's funny how a John Bircher has become our own RALPH NADER.
Run and lost so many times, he forgot WHY he was really running.
People are not so stupid sometimes. The look at Nader, and they see it's no longer about ideas, it's about EGO.

RE: Does AMA have a real future?
 

Of whom are you speaking?

RE: Does AMA have a real future?
 

Horrace,

Before I leave this thread, I wish to point out to you a couple of items.

You said, in your post: "Besides being ready to sign off UAL, I had 3 kids in universities. I simply had to make a change. I did."

Most people, and I will grant that you are not most people, would make the statement about the kids for one of two reasons. Either to show how proud they were that the kids were in universities, or to lament the costs of having them in school at the same time. Since the first context does not appear to have any relevance, I concluded that it was used in the second context. If that makes me a liar, so be it.

As to the rest of your post, I find it rather humorous. Either the statement you made in this thread is less than factual, or the published statement you made in your April ’82 is less than factual. Period. All the rhetoric in the world is not going to change that. At least in my opinion.

RE: Does AMA have a real future?
 

Does the AMA have a real future? Frankly I hope not with the likes of you old nasty tempered codgers running it. You older icons are one of the reasons why people dont join clubs and ultimately AMA. I've seen your likes across the country flying over 25 years. You dont welcome the "newbies" when they come up; you scowl and scare them away. Your club "clicks" and in-fighting are one of the reasons parkflyers are so popular. Who wants the hassle of having to put up with you? Remember-we fly to have fun! You want us to pay you for the hassle? Come on kids-were going to the park! Jim

RE: Does AMA have a real future?
 

Henpecked, don't beleive everything you read on the internet. Judging from posts HERE, you would think there is this huge groundswell of discontent. Go out to the field, you will see most people are pleased.
I have flown at a lot of clubs, and 9 out of 10 are really nice people, don't let that tenth crusty old codger ruin your day. IF you can avoid him.

RE: Does AMA have a real future?
 

Hey Easy, I've read alot of your input on the dinky plane forum. Little planes are great aren't they! Listen-I'm no expert on the AMA or club fields but I've seen the nasty political power people at clubs from the old Sepulveda Basin in sunny So. Cal. in the late 70s to here in upper Md. and central Pa.in 2005. From my 1st old TF P-39 Airacobra in 1979(god rest its soul) to my latest Parkflyer Electric BAE Hawk what a change of technology. But something remains the same here throughout. Males will do most of the flying and young males have been dwindling slowly but surely in my 25 or so years. You older guys gotta act more like Grandpa if you dont want to turn away young fellas. Dont act so snobby and know it all like and maybe some of the young kids will come back. They will pay the future club and AMA dues. Your old beater High wing plane?; let a young kid take it up on a buddy cord. Yeah-these young kids look funny with their hair and clothes etc. When I look at pictures of myself now I laugh! Pictures from when I was a kid are hysterical. Parkflying people dont have to deal with club crap. Dont create it and you will have more members. I watched the Frederick,Md. club (using a public park to start) fragment over the old codgers infighting for control. They got thrown from the park and are on the 3rd or 4th site in 10 years. Ya know for people trying to have fun it sure gets bloody listening to members dog out others that aren't at the field at the time. Worse than women some times. What do you expect the young folks to think when they come and hear all the crud the veterans spout. Who came to fly? Who came to have fun? Who came cause they want to be in charge? Just like a dang theiving Democrat or greedy Republican. Power Hungry! Gee whiz I'm getting old and cynical like you old pilots. I hope I dont get Nasty! Jim

RE: Does AMA have a real future?
 

Ha Jim, I think your already there!

Signed one old codger! Maybe not yet!

RE: Does AMA have a real future?
 

Horrible,
I nominate you as the person who has used the pronoun "I" the most in any one grammatically correct paragraph. Too bad "we" and "us" never had a chance.

Who wants to start the record search to see if he has a better example of self serving verbiage?

RE: Does AMA have a real future?
 

Man. I'd sure like to see this thread have more substance than shooting spit wads at Horrace. I look at the thread subject line, and while it may be arguable whether HC has the/an answer, it's crystal clear that the dominant power in AMA for the last decade does not. AMA is as stagnant at the top level as D-5 was during much of the same period. I sure hope the 'new blood' in AMA soon makes their presence felt, because the new blood in model aviation sees little in AMA but an obstacle, and they've very effectively forged their way around it. AMA policy remains based in large part on what worked in the bad old days: on being the only game in town, so we'll protect and exploit that position by making model aviation a closed shop exclusively for dues paying members, and hook them for insurance while excluding whatever we perceive to be an insurance risk, of course. Never mind that all potential AMA members are non-members, they'll pay up front to enjoy model aviation the way we choose to control it. Well here's a news flash that wasn't heard in Muncie several years ago - people entering the hobby now are forming their own game, and with no organization and no perceived need for the insurance, however conveniently provided, that is the driver behind everything about AMA despite the denial/protestations that AMA is not an insurance company. Tell them they are wrong, while their activity has revitalized model aviation and their numbers are growing strongly, and the 'right' way, the AMA way, is shrinking.
What AMA needs to have a real future is real leadership that is relevant in the 21st century. I don't honestly think replacing Doug Holland with Horrace Cain has much potential toward that end. OTOH, any perceived spectre that HC could be on the EC might prompt both DT's and overdue action by the GOBs to make the CFO job an unelected position as it should be, and open the vice-presidency to an individual ready to step in and take over the presidency. That would be a very good thing, IMHO. Horrace could be doing a real service in support of AMA's future by running for the position though never being allowed to serve in it.

Abel

RE: Does AMA have a real future?
 

Now Abel,
Before you go talking about how JM ran D-5, check where he learned how to make an instant VP. Horrace the Horrible taught him the 'dirty' tricks he knew starting with Jim Sears. Look in the MA archive for details. That tale reads to me exactly like Judy looked to everyone else.

Hard to see that mind set going anywhere to help the AMA.

Other than that, I tend to agree with you. Sorry for picking on him here, but it is HIS thread.

RE: Does AMA have a real future?
 

As is usually the case, when a subject is discussed, viable points are made on both sides of the fence.

I can relate to Mr. Cain's position on giving up (not finishing) a term in office. A few years back, I had to 'give up' an AVP position since the company I was flying for merged with another company (read as take over by) that had a flight department and us guys became extra and unwanted baggage. The result was scrambling around the country doing contract flying to keep the wolf from the door. It was impossible for me to serve the modeling community in a productive manner and 'gave it up' to provide a slot for someone with the time to do it.

I can see and endorse Tigres position: without voices to call attention to the 'rest of the story', complacency and decline often follow.

I strongly agree that the wrapping is just as important as the gift. If an issue exists and a good solution is offered, the delivery method will often determine whether or not the solution is tried. For much of my life I felt that the intrinsic value of something should negate the 'incidental' negatives. For instance, the corporate president should be more interested in my ability to fly his airplane than how well versed I am in public relations. Only to find out that dealing with people was just as important as how well I could keep the needles centered.

Our elected officials must have the talents and expertise to get the job done. But the interpersonal skills are just as important. We need a president, VP, CFO or whatever but as surely as we need the position, we need someone in that position that can deliver the message to the constituants.

When I first joined the AMA in the 50's, modeling was balsa, silk and Ambroid. ARF's popularity has skyrocketed and it's pace is now being challenged by electrics. Electrics and ARF foam have created a whole new segment of the industry. It's getting harder for me to call it a hobby since to me, building will always be a big part of it. But one thing sure, the hobby/industry is CHANGING!

The AMA has been a part of most of us for our entire lives. I rather doubt we will see other entities rise to take its' place. So it would appear the AMA has to adapt to the changes if it is to be a viable entity tomorrow.

To do so, we need the knowledge, experience and dedication of people like Dave Brown. But we also need the ideas and perspectives of those involved at all experience and interest levels. We may never get the park flyers to join but I wonder if it is correct to pass it off as, 'who needs 'em'.

Keep tossing out the opinons and try to listen to each other. Even it you don't like the style of delivery, listen to the message.

Respectfully,

Joe
L166

RE: Does AMA have a real future?
 

I think a lot more information would be needed to see what is going on. One thing you can see from these few numbers is that it seems to coincide with 9/11 and the economy. Many conclusions or supositions can be drawn from this but more data is needed. This in itself does not mean the sky is falling. Would also be interesting to see what happened in other years when there was an economy downturn.

RE: Does AMA have a real future?
 

Gotta add one thing.

The term 'old codger' is interesting.

I started with stick and tissue built airplanes in the late 40's, started flying C/L in '56 or so and joined the AMA in '58.

I guess that makes me an 'old codger' as some have use the term in such a disparaging manner.

I currently fly C/L, RC helis and 3D foamies in my back yard and sport aerobatic and 1/4 scale at the flying clubs I belong to. I also ride and race harescrambles and motocross on a KTM 520. I also like waterskiing, snowmobiles, snow skiing and fast cars.

Which of these define me as an old codger?

Old is a state of mind and an attitude. We've all known people who were old in their 20's and people my age who you'd think would never grow old.

You can have a dinosaur in the AMA that is mired in the past and thinks in the past. And he may be no older than 35 or 40. As well, your can have a 60+ guy in there just as young in his thinking as anyone.

Show some respect please. Not due to my age but for the fact us old guys are modelers just like you.

RE: Does AMA have a real future?
 

None of those reasons listed does...but posting here on this forum sure does:D

BTW great post!