Insurance
 

JR,

I had looked through the policy itself. After the part about being secondary I didn't look too close. Not that that's a problem (in my opinion). Although, since the average AMA age is in the late 50's (I think I read that somewhere) it makes it somewhat unlikely that AMA is often the primary insurance in an incident. :-)

Anyway, my main interest was hearing substantiation that the insurance was, in fact, hard to collect on.

I realize the most likely respondants are the one's whom have a problem with AMA, but if there are horror stories, it might be good to see them brought to light.

Tim

Hate the AMA?
 

Ghostbear,

The news of a second private flying field in Augusta (I assume Georgia ?) is very interesting . Please post more info. Are you telling us that AMA illuminates have decided to move south during the winter flying season to escape the harsh Indiana weather.

Hate the AMA?
 

I would like to add a little bit to the reply I submitted to Mr. Bowles in his request for information.

I would greatly like to see the AMA sponsor some of the superstars of model aviation in small model aviation airshows across the entire country. These pilots are VERY GOOD at what they do, and could assist the average rest of us in illustrating what can be done with model aviation. Appearances at local full scale airshows throughout the season could be a good place to start.

I do not in any way want to take away from what these superstars can do, for in their skill they raise the standards for the rest of us by showing what can be done with practice and skill. But it would be great if these talented people could demonstrate their skills at the local levels, boosting public awareness, increasing hobby product sales, and therefore increasing AMA membership.

Silversurfer,
aka Pat Roy

Hate the AMA?
 

What an excellent idea! But instead of sponsoring the superstars, what about, instead, working with the show promoters to involve the local clubs. That way, the novices, and potential new initiates, will have a point of contact with the local club, and real flesh-and-blood people they can get to know and work with. The AMA could take the point on working with the show promoters, and gain acceptance of the local club(s)' demonstations, and get them scheduled into the program.

Thereby would we save money (dues), potentially increase AMA membership, expose literally thousands of people locally to the local clubs, and provide a vehicle which could be used to educate the public about the benefits of model aviation in general. The AMA would not be on the hook for the costs involved with transporting people and equipment from show to show, the fliers would not be subjected to possible extended periods of time away from their homes (and building time), and the AMA would actually SERVE the modelling community by being responsible for making the contacts and negotiating the schedules.

SFA
 

I believe this answers the point made ---


From the Sport Flyers Web Site --- http://sportflyers.net/ --- Friday, March 3, 2000

All American Modelers Association, Inc. trading as



Sport Flyers of America II
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ATTENTION: This NOTICE applies to all indiviudals, clubs, site owners and additional insureds who purchased a membership with Sport Flyers of America II prior to February 25, 2000 and received subsequent proof of insurance (a year 2000 membership card and/or certificate of insurance).

Dated: March 1, 2000

I'm very sorry to have to advise members that All American Modelers Association, Inc. trading as Sport Flyers of America II is ceasing its operations immediately. With the untimely death of Elliott J. Janss, Jr., the company founder and the pending litigation against Sport Flyers, we are simply unable to continue operations.
The Insurance Carriers were advised of the company's decision to shut down operations and they requested that they following message be put on the internet, on their behalf, as well as, the association's main number voicemail (active for one month).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The Insurance currently being provided to SFA II Clubs, Members, Site Owners and other Certificate Holders will be cancelled mid-term. The Insurance Contract('s) require 30 Days Written Notice to the First Named Insured. We anticipate the actual Cancellation Date to be on or around April 5, 2000. As soon as the actual date is finalized, we will send the required Notices and update this message.

If you have evidence that you have paid your premium to the SFA II AND have RECEIVED MEMBERSHIP EVIDENCE FROM SFA II, you are an INSURED under the policy and your benefits will cease as of the cancellation date.


As of this moment, any mail being sent to SFA II is being returned by the Post Office and the main phone number of SFA II has a recording on it. Any servicing needs on current policies, such as processing claims, will be handled by:

Philip J. Klein

Assurance Services, Inc.

PO Box 5217

Granbury, TX 76049

817-326-5939

817-326-3366 FAX

Assurance Services does not have the authority to bind any new insurance coverages. They have authority only to service the existing coverage in place.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Re: SFA
 

O.K., I tried the link for more info, went nowhere for me. So, I have to ask, who was suing, and what was the litigation over???

SFA
 

SFA Sued the AMA for supposedly not playing fair, but it was actually to make a quick buck, SFA LOST, AMA counter-sued for OUR money spent defending against the SFA, AMA WON, SFA folded, They cut their own throat.

Short and sweet version.

Re: SFA
 

And quite accurate!

Bill Lee

SFA
 

Yet Mr. Maroney's post makes it APPEAR that it was a unilateral move by the AMA. This leads me to believe that, perhaps, Mr. Maroney is as real a person as the Dave Brown, also supposedly from AMA, who was shown to not be THE Dave Brown at all.

Re: SFA
 

The contents of the Carl Maroney post was TOTALLY taken from the old SFA website. If it says anything, you would almost EXPECT it to put the blame on AMA. But it really doesn't! It uses the death of the SFA originator and prime mover and shaker as the reason they were folding. Yes, pending litigation was mentioned, but no indication in that post of the complete trail that AMA and SFA followed through the courts.

I don't see anything in this post to make me suspect this is not actually Carl posting particualrly after it was confirmed in another thread that he HAD been contributing.

Regards,

Bill Lee

Hate the AMA?
 

Hi Dave,
With all due respect, there's a lot more to it than that!
Jon

Hate the AMA?
 

Hi everyone,
As most of you know I'm pretty critical of AMA's leadership and the way things get done in Muncie.
However, in all fairness I must compliment the District II VP, Dave Mathewson, who is lurking around RCU. After several of my posts he contacted me privately and asked if there was anything he could do to clear up any misunderstanding or answer any questions I may have. After several e-mail exchanges, we set up a date and time and I called him and talked for around 15 minutes.
I really appreciated it that he went out of his way to start a dialog with me instead of ignoring my posts as just another malcontent.
I've seen many posts from various members expressing their "problems" with their Dist. VP's, fortunately Dist. II doesn't have these problems with Dave.
In my dealing with Dave I've found him to be a professional, honest, stand up guy who actually does give straight answers.
There may still be hope!
Regards,
Jon

Hate the AMA?
 

Dave Mathewson...AMA president...could happen.

Take care,
CCR
http://www.kites.org/rc_instructors

Hate the AMA?
 

BV,
No, I don't feel a lot better. The AMA is only 1 year older than me and I have been a member for a long time. I have seen many changes over the years and some were good, some were bad. I don't think it is all bad and I don't think any member at large can know "all" that is occuring within the entire AMA organization. We have to rely on our reps and other sources to stay abreast of all that is happening. This is a multi facited organization we belong to and some of us chose to limit (and deprive) ourselves of the full measure of model aviation, we don't see the whole picture. That is where the ME factor rears it's ugly head.
I attended a club meeting last knight and Two of our members stated that they were not renewing their AMA. This is sad, as one has been a member for 25 years, so I asked them why and the response was " what has the AMA done for me but raise my dues". Proves my point (to me anyway).
What they don't want to understand is that this increase is to cover the next 5 years( baring another 9-11). Ten dollars is a lot of money for some folks and I can understand as I've been there. But that is about 83 cents a month, Yeah I know times 160,000 or so members. How many of these folks ever run a company that large and realize just how much it costs for day to day operation.
They can't look at the big picture and see what the AMA has done for the entire membership, perhaps one group one time and another next time. Oh well, it is their loss.
Sorry, I may be preaching to the pulpit.

Silversurfer, Rastilin
Now you have the right idea, maybe you should contact AMA, your VP, AVP and see what is going on in this area that can be expanded.

Hate the AMA?
 

For Raistlin 12:

My original thought was to utilize the AMA to design a plan where local clubs could take advantage of developed information to arrange local model airshows. The AMA could assist local clubs in publicizing the shows in local printed and broadcast media. The AMA , in conjunction with the superstar sponsers, could underwrite the cost of transportation fo the superstar to the events. All of these costs are probably a dollar for dollar tax write off for the orginizations and businesses involved.

I mean, what the heck, we are already paying the cost of the advertising being charged off to the superstars anyway. If you doubt this, take a close and comparative look at the cost to value of the products we are purchasing.

Proper and effective use of advertising and talent is a powerful motivator. Effectively used, hobby product sales would increase, AMA memberships would likely soar, club memberships and revenues would increase, and advertising costs would be reduced on a per unit sold basis.

The AMA has to realize by now that the advent of the "Park Flyer" has tolled the death knell of their orginization. More than a few people are buying these things just to avoid the AMA death grip on flying fields. They HAVE to get more people involved in the larger format RC to survive.

Pat Roy

Hate the AMA?
 

Recently, a local RC club had a 40th anniversary model airshow. It was publicized, at their cost, on radio, and with flyers at all LHS venues. There were raffles of kits, etc., donated by those same LHS (I even won one!). The parking lot was full from first lift off to after last touchdown. There were several "involve the public" events, including dual time with a club instructor. A local paintball club provided paintball equipment for a "shoot the airplane down" activity. Members flew their trainers, and for a mere $5 for 10 shots, you could shoot at it as it flew, on the verge of stall, past the guns. It was great fun for everyone, and, although there were several hits, only one plane was actually downed, and it was easily repairable. BUT, this was all at a local flying field. Just imagine the draw if a model flying demo were to be held in conjunction with a full scale airshow! The exposure would increase from a couple of hundred to, around here anyway, several thousand!

BTW, a superstar, or two, would probably make the demo more dramatic, but I think people could relate better to local modelers...especially if someone in the crowd happend to know them personally. I know, in my case, a club member would be far less intimidating, and more approachable than a Quique, or someone else of that ilk. I know he's probably a great guy, but I would be reluctant to try to talk RC with him, just due to his superb ability to command his aircraft vs. my ability to make toothpicks!

Lets run it up to our respective DVPs, though, and see if someone salutes!

Hate the AMA?
 

Growth: Whose responsibility is it?

http://216.37.26.18/ama/printimage.a...0/00000009.jpg


Interesting reading for those who think that AMA should be doing something proactively constructive. I've read several times where someone said: The AMA is the member and the member is the AMA.

Take care,
CCR
http://www.kites.org/rc_instructors

Hate the AMA?
 

And as a member of the AMA, I am trying to provide input to the EC about one avenue they can use to "promote model aviation" to the general public. To use one of Dave's phrases from the 5-year old article you pointed to, "gone are the days" when corporate America will listen to the small, individual club. We need the clout the AMA national organization allegedly has to assist the local clubs with their efforts to acquire demo slots, so we, the AMA members, will have more and better opportunities to explain our sport/hobby to those who might not even know such a thing exists. (Believe it or not, there are people who have no clue what model aviation is, or is all about)

Maybe I read too much into this post, but it said, to me, that it's not the AMA's job to try to generate interest in this hobby. BTW, Dave Brown, while he is the president of the AMA, is only one man, and the opinions he wrote reflect HIS view. Nowhere did I see him state that what he was saying was anything more than that, either.

Hate the AMA?
 

for those that think the AMA is a monopoly or a union, or whatever: i'm quite sure you could find a field near your house that you can fly at, without AMA insurance. there's bound to be a farmer there with a chunk of land that he'll let you fly on. you might even get a few of your non-AMA buds to fly with you there. you do have a choice. you don't have to have AMA to fly.
but: when you go to the golf course, do they want you to have a membership to play there? many do. are they monopolizing the land the course is on, making it so that you can't play if you don't pay? well, you can always go to the local school and play on hte sports fields there...my dad and i did for 2 or 3 years before we ever played on a real course. we couldn't afford the greens fees.

so, if AMA is that bad, don't renew your membership. but, if you want to play where everyone else plays, you've got to join the same clubs.

Hate the AMA?
 

Logically, what I read in that column is that it's the club member's job to do all of the in-the-field, hands-on promoting/training. Imagine if everyone of the 160,000 AMA club members got just one more member to sign up and possibly stay for a year or two, there would be 320,000 x $58 in AMA's treasury. Perhaps that could mean our dues may go down, or at least, not increase in the future. Problem is, growth is one man's poison and another man's medicine in this hobby.

I imagine that was what AMA was trying to accompish to one degree or the other with their Sign 3 and Fly Free Ambassador program. http://modelaircraft.org/templates/a...C04897CE91BCB6
Take care,
CCR
http://www.kites.org/rc_instructors

AMA
 

And something I have been trying to get across for some time now, Promoting the hobby is done on the local level , not the national level with assistance from the organization.

Hate the AMA?
 

Nobody denies the necessity of a national organization to protect our frequency and provide guidance as of how each club should be organized plus making reasonable insurance available to members. Here is is my question how much really this service cost, please look at it as service industry not a non-profitable organization, and what do currenlty we get from AMA . you send your check every year and get a lame magazine that is it. My club fee is $15 dollars a year and with that I get a place to fly, buy inexpensive fuel, meet with other member to talk shop, have fly-ins, use of club library and tools ,buy and sell through club, get discount at local hobby shop,etc while all this going on AMA is MIA

AMA
 

Foxx, I think you really need to explore teh AMA website and see all of the services available, Many require the Membership to be proactive , not all will be of use, it is up to the membership to take advantage of whats available.

Hate the AMA?
 

I would like to see the AMA publish an ACCURATE AND HONEST tally of the number of members in each state. It might be interesting to see for ourselves where the geographic membership center of the country is.

In my opinion, if the AMA cannot be very proactive, and it seems to be very slow to reacting, what is its' real value other than insurance?

My point, Mr. Bowles, is that the AMA MUST be many different things to many different people. If is is not, then it can only be self serving/promoting. The AMA can be much more than it is currently, and in doing so it will increase its' revenue and stature. More people may be inclined to join and re-join than are currently doing so. This would slow, or possibly even reverse the ever increasing dues spiral.

I, for one, do not for a moment believe that our dues are increasing yet again due to insurance costs. I believe it is due more to a declining membership roster. Many people are indeed finding new places to fly where the AMA has no claim. I belong to one such club that has eliminated the AMA requirement for flight. As an aside, I belong to several clubs, some AMA, some not. And, yes, I am still a member of the AMA. At least for the moment.

Another point. If most of you haven't noticed, our local hobby shops are now primarily supported form R/C car sales. Gas or electric, it doesn't matter. The reason for this is visibility and ease of operation. It doesn't matter that they break easily, and cost a fortune in fuel to operate. If it wasn't for these cars, our hobby dealers would starve to death.

Our flying fields are generally removed form the population centers to prevent publc annoyance. We need assistance from the AMA to assist us in publicizing what we do. Certainly we should plan and create on the local level, but without the AMA's assistance, why include them in the spoils?

Pat Roy,
aka silversurfer

Hate the AMA?
 

I very rarely join in these discussions. A lot of ink has been used about the $58.00 yearly dues that we pay for the one year membership in the AMA. Folks I pay $300.00 per year to the gun club that I belong to and we don't even have a mag. When I go to the LHS which is 65 miles away (come on Doug build one in Fredericksburg) I wish that I could get away with just spending $58.00. Seems that the more I see the more I want so I end up spending $500-2500 during every visit.

Lets face it this is not an inexpensive hobby $58.00 is cheap.

When a new flyer comes along who asks about the costs we go through all of the costs which includes the AMA. If you drive a car you have to have insurance. If you fly RC you have to have insurance. Just the simple facts. AMA provides the insurance.
If a new flyer cannot pay the AMA insurance they will probably not stay in the hobby for long as the cost of planes and parts prohibits them from continuing.

What we really need is an option (for those that want it) to only buy the insurance.

Just my .02

Terry