RE: US teams vs ??????
 

I'm not talking about prejudice. In fact, if you don't have any prejudice, I wouldn't value your opinion as much. I was talking about calling people's opinions in your words: Sincerely,
Woops

RE: US teams vs ??????
 

As harsh as it sounds, I dont think Oscar should be on the US team(assuming he was a RC pilot, etc etc.). Even with his distinguished military service. His sleeve and honor and loyalty and devotion maybe flying an american flag, but his representation is flying a flag of a different color.
How often have you seen some car driving down the road with a flag of a different nation plastered all over it, or someone wearing a t-shirt with a different nations flag on it. I cant stand that. Drives me nuts. Being a US citizen is ALL OR NOTHING. You cant be half a US citizen. That's why US citizenship requires a public declaration, its saying to the world that you are 100% American....not 99.5%


Picture this scenario. We let a non-US citizen fly on the US team. We win the world championships. FOREVER that victory will be scrutinized and belittled because in many peoples eyes, we had to use a foriegn national to win. Regardless of whether that was the case or not. We dont need a foriegn national to win the world championships. We have plenty of highly skilled pilots that are perfectly capable of attaining a victory for us.

When we go to the world championships and compete...regardless of outcome...there should be 100% NO question, no argument, no reasoning to doubt that we sent our own US citizens of the finest caliber, and of a US piloting pedigree to the championships, and whatever scores we attained were absolutly unquestionably DESERVED not just by the individual pilots, but by the country that sent them there.
Its about honor, pride, and representation of our country, for our country, by our countrymen.

You cannot have that if your team is flawed by questionable practices. The placement of a foreign national on the team IS one of those questionable practices. All these threads are proof of that.

It really pains me to say it. I REALLY REALLY think Quique honestly deserves to go to the World Championships. He's an absolutly superb pilot, and quite possibly could be a crucial factor in a victory. It would be fantastic to watch him go all out for the US. But if he wants to serve on the US team...he should have to make a public declaration of citizenship, and gain his naturalization.(assuming he's not already).

RE: US teams vs ??????
 

You guys do remember that we are talking about toy airplanes here, right?? I mean come on. You really think anyone on earth notices or cares who won the F-3-WHATEVER?? Quick, since you are all so up in arms and proud of the American Teams. How did we do in F3A, F3B, and F3C this past year?? Certainly given all this close attention and deep thought everyone out there was following this with deep national pride and interest, right?? And of course everyone knows the names of all the Team members right??

That's what makes all this so funny. 99% of the people in this thread probably can't even tell you what F3A, B and C are. Let alone where they were flown and how our Teams did. But By God, they know that if any NON-AMURIKUNS were on the Teams that it would be a NATIONAL DISGRACE. !!!!!!

BTW - we didn't win ANY of them this year. But congrats to each and every one of them for the time and dedication it takes to work to get to that level. F3J is in 2006!!!!

RE: US teams vs ??????
 

I think it would be nice to have Christophe Paysant-LeRoux fly for the U.S. next year. If we're going to let QQ fly to help our chances, then why not buy the talent of Christophe? I'm sure there wouldn't be any better than him.


Woops:D

RE: US teams vs ??????
 

Why are you telling us about it? Next time you see a car filled with people you don't like wearing flags non-American tell them to pull over and give them a piece of your mind. Why do you come here to talk about.

Ha please you've got to be kidding.

Picture this scenario. QQ Somenzini is an Argentinian National ( I would assume ). He joins the USA Team because he is a legal 99.5% immigrant of this country. He owns a home here, he pays taxes here, he own and runs a business here. He joins the USA team and takes it home for the Americans. So whose going to be scrutinized?? America or Argentina because their "ringer" decided to fly wearing a USA flag instead of their own. I mean come on, get into reality.

SOMENZINI FOR US PRESIDENT!

RE: US teams vs ??????
 

Mr. Davison:

Thank you for your eloquence and direct statements. I applaud your style and your ability to express it. In addition I agree 101% with your thesis.

As for STL pilot, just let me say to you: Sir, foreign nationals in the Armed Services of the United States are here at their own call in this day and age. It is their choice. I do remember when they were subject to the Draft. So be it as Mr. Davison so well stated, if they want the life-style then be prepared to accept the responsibilities.

In the military, I trained foreign nationals as well as my son did for NATO countries. I served with one for sometime in regular duties. No problems except for the few personal items he liked to "borrow" now and then. :)
As for resident foreign nationals serving in military duty, if it were my choice, the front line would be a great place for them. [>:] In reality, there is no correlation between military and games designed for sports people. To conclude such is pure folly.


While I am not a contender for any FAI event, by any means, especially talent or even desire, I know some that do so. Not in Pattern, but an FAI event, I know a modeler, previously a World Champ, and again a team contender for the next one, that has a friend contender in another country. They visit each other every so often. The "other country" contender is considered Master of Sport. He is provided an apartment just a couple blocks from a very large workshop where he has the finest of everything, including computer machines, to build and make the best
of anything. Whatever he needs is provided.

Once the US teams are made up of commercially dominated individuals, that are provided almost everything all the time, and only need devote all their time to simply practicing the flying, then no US person in the regular sport/hobby of model aviation can ever expect to win a coveted spot on the team. Even now it is extremely difficult for a regular person, even with talent and skill, to finance the costs of FAI competition and practice enough to be competitive with the supported Masters-of-Sport. Yet, I favor the idea that each individual can at least work for that spot and just may have a chance. To make it simply a tool of the commercial model world is, IMO, simply prostituting the activity as has been done with all other professional sports.

If you recall back in the '70s that happened in our regular National Competition ranks. Do you remember a Nats contender that was fully sponsored with an entourage that kept the plane ready and the radios ready and he worked full time for a large Modeling company of the times? Part of his job was to fly at least 2 pattern flights at least 6 days a week, every week. He told me that some-days he almost froze to death, but he got at least 2 flights in every day except 1 day each week for a number of years. I think he also got a FAI World Champs back there.

SO, U.S. FAI team members should, IMO, be U.S. CITIZENS. At least, keep the team slot a carrot hanging out there for those willing to go for it. Just like each young person born in this country has that carrot there to be President some day, those that have become or are citizens of this country should be the ones that have the opportunity to represent this country in International competition.

RE: US teams vs ??????
 

Once again you direct the thread towards your political views.

Because of your liberal views, I will not own, endorse or fly an OMP aircraft again.

I will tell Mike and/or John next time I see them, or you can.

RE: US teams vs ??????
 

Please bear in mind. I NEVER said I didnt like the person doing it. Its their behavior that I dont like, and I regularly voice my opinion to many of the above mentioned people. In my opinion the brandishing of another countries flag by a US citizen is unpatriotic behavior. If you're a US citizen you should be proud of the American Flag, and display it...and not the flag of another nation. Our flag is a very important symbol of our culture, heritage, and freedoms. Display it proudly, and present it with loyalty.

I dont have a problem with non-US citizens displaying the flag of their country of origin, perhaps they havent yet decided where their loyalties lie. Hopefully when and if they become US citizens they will retire the flag of origin and replace it with the stars and stripes that they deserve. If not, Id be more than happy to explain to them why they should do so.


Picture this...

I move to Russia. I buy a house, I pay their taxes, I start a business. Does this make me a Russian....

NO

It just makes me an American in Russia with a house, taxes, and a business.

RE: US teams vs ??????
 

Seeing that I'm an owner of OMP and not employee, I think you told the right person. But if you choose to tell on me, be my guest, I can assure you that I will still have a job afterwards. I mean if you don't want to purchase one of our planes because of a debate on RCU, that's quite a stretch and talk about whose being politcal.

RE: US teams vs ??????
 

Those were the only two guys that I have met and liked them both.

Since you are the owner, you may want to think about what you say and how you say it. People like to do business with people that they like.

RE: US teams vs ??????
 

A guy that I know is, I believe, an American citizen, but he proudly flys the flag of his orgin. He is married to an American and has an American job and an American house. The reason he still flys his flag is because all/most of his family lives there. I agree that he isn't a full American(in heart), but I would put him at 99.5% American. STLPilot, would you like him to represent America?


Sincerely,
Woops

RE: US teams vs ??????
 

Yikes... People...

I disagree with parts of both sides of this discussion, but YNOT, that is just close minded and silly!!



Come on people.. Whos going flying today?? I put skis on my Katana! I'm going flying!:D

RE: US teams vs ??????
 

Thanks for the advice, point noted. Next time that I make a post I'll denounce my title of OMP owner so that I can join into the group discussion like "one of guys".


I hereby denounce my title as OMP owner for the following comment. I am now John Q. Citizen.

I have a tatoo on my shoulder of my country of origin while I was representing my country in the Marine Corps, guess that makes me less then 100% American too? Who the heck are you to judge who is American and who is not?

I own a couple of RC planes decked out in my country of origin, even trimmed one out in their colors for AFP which several thousand people downloaded from our website. Does that make them less then 100% American to fly it? Heck, don't want to show you the bottom of the car .... it may give you a heart attack.

Ok, I hereby reinstate my title OMP owner again! BTW has everyone seen the new Katana EP RTF we just launched? Check it out!

RE: US teams vs ??????
 

STLPilot,
I've learned this from experience, you are representing the views of OMP by having that as your signature and avatar. If you want just your opinion to be perceived(and not that of OMP) then you ought to remove the sig and avatar.

My question to you was: I don't think that he is 99.5% American, I was using similar criteria to what you were using for QQ. I'm sorry that I didn't make that clear. I guess my question to you is would you want someone (such as QQ) who isn't a full American,(based on what I know and your number of 99.5%) or a person who may not be fully committed to America?(such as the guy that I mentioned) Would you take both? Also, would you support me wanting to buy Christophe's talent for the next FAI F3A worlds? Why or why not?


Sincerely,
Woops

RE: US teams vs ??????
 

Oh please. You got to be kidding me. I don't live inside my wharehouse or office. I live right here in the real world like you do. I'm not talking in the Profile or Software forum, I'm in a discussion in AMA forum and I'll make my point come across just like you.

If you don't want to buy OMP planes because of my views on immigration, I can't do anything about that. I try to sell the best product that my customers want to buy and if you don't want to buy these planes because of it so be it. Of course I hate to loose a single customer, but my opinions are not in conflict of interest of the toys that we make and sell for you (somtimes) grown up boys.

RE: US teams vs ??????
 

Nope. Try again. If he removes his sig then he is in violation of RCU rules, which require full disclosure of any & all commercial affiliation.

I think I'll go buy an OMP product, just to balance out the one you don't want to buy.

BTW, for the guy who thinks every American must be 100% American and not identifying at all with any other nationality... why is it then, that anytime anyone notices my accent and asks where I'm from (Scotland originally, though a proud US citizen now), a HUGE number of them immediately try to tell me about some 7th generation removed tie that their family has with some part of Europe ? For whatever reason they all seem to want to identify themselves not only as American, but American with various foreign roots ? I guess they somehow never got your memo about it being imperative to completely disown all foreign roots. Maybe you could send it out again ?

Gordon

RE: US teams vs ??????
 

Listen dude, next time you meet a person who is a legal resident or working on getting their green card, ask them what it takes not only just to live in this country on a work or school visa, but just be able to get here for more then a vacation visa and keep legal status.

I mean do you know a single person who falls under this criteria? It's work and it's a lot of work, I mean almost every day work, paper work, phone calls, interviews, background checks and much more. So these people that are trying to stay here and prosper or trying to stay here just to have a job ARE FULLY COMMITED.

But there is no way to get inside of their head to ask them and this is what you just can't comprehend. You think we need to get each and every American non citizen living in the United States to stand up on a stage and swear allegiance for the United States so you can feel better about yourself and your opinion about them.

Wow Gordon thanks for you order, I just saw it come through. Not everday we get someone that orders 4 airplanes, 1 software, 2 engines, 8 props, 2 OMP hats, 3 pairs of landing gear. I guess your were making up for some of the other losses as well, or is this all for Christmas? Thank god I made these posts or I would have never have made my quota for the week.

RE: US teams vs ??????
 

Come on, woops, does that mean I represent the views of the former North American Aviation? No. You are just looking for an argument on this matter, huh. Enough already, the store is running out of cheese to go with the whine.

RE: US teams vs ??????
 

Again, you're avoiding the question.

I'm not the type of person that wouldn't buy an OMP plane because of your views.
BTW, I wasn't aware of the RCU rules so please disregard what I wrote about changing your sig.


Sincerely,
Woops

RE: US teams vs ??????
 

Sorry too busy getting orders out. This thread has really picked up sales.

RE: US teams vs ??????
 

No. I'm talking about representing a company or product that you are associated with by what's in the sig.


Example 1: have a great day!
Example 2: visit www.*****.com to see the best heli ever from *****

Example 2 is advertising a product and the views expressed above in the post will be perceived by some as that of the organization in the sig.


Sincerely,
Woops

RE: US teams vs ??????
 

Well this has really turned into a good thread to follow. I think that both sides have valid points. Being in the military and working on keeping illegals out STL you have brought a new perspective into my mind. I agree with Woops on some of his points and agree with some of STL's points. If Woops does not want to buy an OPM product I support him because that is his choice. STL I am a fair modeler and have been wanting to buy an OMP product for a long time, I have the boxxer in mind and when you first started talking about these subjects I didn't want to buy from OMP but I as I followed the threads I have come to realize that this issue well never really be solved and you have proven some of your points very well. I will be placing an order for my very first OMP product soon (as soon as I get the money up lol... military income got to love it). I wish both sides of this dicussion well and a very Merry Christmas.

RE: US teams vs ??????
 

Thank-you for your service. I will buy from OMP if they have a model I want.(50ccYak54 kit;))

Merry Christmas,
Woops:)

RE: US teams vs ??????
 

Thanks Woops. I never thought that an RC forum could enligten me so much on political topics lol..

My wish list edge 540 3d buddy and a boxxer. I can't afford to get into the big stuff lol. keep it small and fast.

RE: US teams vs ??????
 

When your ready to order, don't do it online, we have special discounts for hard working members of the military. Also right now I'll offer discount to anyone that is a non citizen/legal resident too! :D After all it's the time of year when your supposed to put your prejudices aside and share with family and friends. Maybe they should hold the NATS during Christmas so it's a bit more spirited.

Contact info on the website.