Whether You Care or Not
 

The minutes from the October 27-28 Executive Council Meeting are up on the AMA website http://www.modelaircraft.org/templat...inutes.asp#min

They include, among other things:

Dave Brown being impersonated on the internet
The insurance problems that are being experienced
Sale of property at Muncie
National Flying Site
Reducing insurance benefits
GPS controlled planes and the FAA
Provisional turbine waiver
Captive Insurance Corporation

These are intended as teasers. There is something there for everyone, even those that belong to the AMA for insurance only.

JR

ama ec minutes
 

This part is curious enough... The scary part is where the ec appoints the board and they in turn appoint their succesors. Whose interests are best served by this? This is the proverbial self-licking-icecream-cone


Captive Update
The Captive issue is currently on hold; however it was expressed that Council should continue to move forward. The President reiterated that a previous motion was made to establish the captive to a dormant state. This allows AMA to use it as a tool to access more insurance companies from whom to get bids, and it also gives AMA the ability to do a self insured program.

Discussion on this subject included:

· The Captive is a separate corporation from the AMA, and as such, the majority of the Board should not be current AMA Executive Council members.

· F. Gora informed the Executive Council that a document had been developed and reviewed. This document includes proposed information regarding Directors. It proposes that the initial board will be determined by the Executive Council and once that is done, the board members appoint their successors.

· General Counsel is awaiting a written response from the bank regarding release of assets to activate the Captive. He will contact the bank and ask them to inform AMA of the status of that request.

Whether You Care or Not
 

Whereas I'm one of those who are 'out of it'....what's a "captive"? And can we kill 'em if they are 'in season' :)

Jerry

Protected Species:
 

EC Minutes 10/26
>>>>>>>
"Captive Update"

"Discussion on this subject included:
> The Captive is a separate corporation from the AMA, and as >such, the majority of the Board should not be current AMA >Executive Council members.

F. Gora informed the Executive Council that a document had been >developed and reviewed. This document includes proposed >information regarding Directors.
> It proposes that the initial board will be determined by the >Executive Council and once that is done, the board members >appoint their successors.

General Counsel is awaiting a written response from the bank >regarding release of assets to activate the Captive. He will >contact the bank and ask them to inform AMA of the status of >that request.

MOTION VII: Moved by B. Nelson (XI), seconded by J. McNeill (V), >to establish the Board for the formation of the Captive. The >Board will be Dave Brown, Doug Holland and Carl Maroney. MOTION passed unanimously."
<<<<<<

Note that while the majority of the Directors should NOT be EC members, THEY ARE. They will also appoint their successors.
FYI *General Counsel* and F. Gora are one and same person.

I, myself, would certainly have a brighter day if I could understand just how model aviation is being served by the current AMA bureaucracy.

Horrace

captive
 

1. So how much is this new "corporation" going to cost and is this the real reason for the dues increase?

2. Can we expect another dues increase to support the "corporation" next year?

3. Is anyone from the AMA LISTENING or READING these posts?

I would like to hear from them. I am getting pretty worn out on those who promise to lead only to build empires. Empire building is NOT in the AMA charter.
On top of that most companies these days that need to raise prices to stay in business consider their customers. i.e. they trim the fat before they increase prices. I'm sure the AMA has some trimming to do. Don't talk to me about raising rates until you can prove to me that you have done ALL you can to cut unneeded expenses. If that includes laying off employees SO BE IT. It's happening all over today.

Jeff Stultz
AMA 607379

Re: captive
 

Most of those folks in Muncie (AMA HQ) work in excess of the normal 40 hour week and every single time I have asked any staffer for any kind of assistance, I have been astounded as to the favorable response. I am convinced that each and every one of those people are dedicated to doing their level best for us. So exactly who do you suggest we lay off and why? How is that action going to make anything 'better'?

BTW, I am not even sure that I agree with you or with Horrace on the captive, but I do admit it does have my attention.

Jim Branaum
AMA 1428

Whether You Care or Not
 

Still waiting (seriously) for a definition of 'captive' - what is it?

Jerry

Whether You Care or Not
 

Many companies start a second company as a cost saving measure. Nothing wrong with it. Perhaps it would be best to ask them what the purpose is?

captive
 

Jim,

Fair response. Don't want to get in a p!$$N contest but will go for a good debate! After all thats whats important here right!

"Most of those folks in Muncie (AMA HQ) work in excess of the normal 40 hour week and every single time I have asked any staffer for any kind of assistance, I have been astounded as to the favorable response. I am convinced that each and every one of those people are dedicated to doing their level best for us. "

This is also true all over. Ask the thousands that have been laid off by United, Boeing etc. Those folks (most) I'm sure worked their tails off, but to stay in business (retain customers) their employers had to let go of some resources.

"So exactly who do you suggest we lay off and why? How is that action going to make anything 'better'? "

I don't know who is on the payroll and what their job descriptions are. Reorganizing is the responsibility of the management. Given this info I could make some recommendations! Nowadays, everyone has to do more with less. Just ask our servicemen and women. I know they do because I did it for 20 yrs (USN 79 - 99).

"BTW, I am not even sure that I agree with you or with Horrace on the captive, but I do admit it does have my attention. "

Fair enough. My position is that if this will cost 1 cent it should die. I do not want to pay for someones legacy. I joined AMA because I HAVE to have THEIR insurance or good luck finding a place to fly. When I lived in Japan, any personal liability insurance was good enough. Cost about $20.00/yr and covered my planes golf "accidents" etc. No rules about having any specific companies insurance.
I believe the AMA could be a good thing if they reorganized and re-evaluated their purpose. As it stands and the way the ec is responding to its customers (members), I'm hoping something better will come along.

Have a fine Navy day!
Jeff

What is a Captive?
 

Tailskid

Captive:
Insurers that are created and wholly-owned by one or more non-insurers, to provide owners with coverage. A form of self-insurance.

Whether You Care or Not
 

Once upon a time, there were a number of carriers that would submit competing bids to the AMA in order to obtain the AMA's insurance business.

Now there is only one carrier that will even bid on the AMA's business, and lately, they have had to be courted, cajoled, sweet-talked and pursuaded to underwrite the AMA's excess liability. 9-11 scared the bejaysus out of most insurers and none of them are really interested in taking on areas of business they do not well understand.

Fortunately AMA understands and manages it's risk pool very carefully (take note you bozos who want to fly 900 pound models, or fly jets at 400 miles per hour). They have a very clear picture of their own loss experience and are able to give the underwriter a really clear picture of expected losses.

Currently AMA has an insurance policy that covers the organization and has a very high deductible. AMA directly pays the first "something"thousand of a claim, and then Royal picks up the balance if any. I don't currently remember what the deductible is, but you all could look it up if you were ambitious enough.

Anyway, Royal had to be talked into renewing coverage this year, and may refuse to cover us at all next year, or another year soon, because they do notice the trends in the hobby and see that there are many more inexperienced modelers entering the hobby, ill advised in the safety aspects and eager to do stupid things like launch rockest from thier models or mount machine guns on them. Royal is as skittish as any other insurer and they do not like risks they do not understand. Frankly, their shareholders would soil thier pants if they read some of the threads on this board.

So, being forward looking, the AMA is trying to develop an alternative, namely by creating it's own insurance company. This would be a corporate subsidiary that is wholly owned by the AMA.

Once AMA does this, the availability of insurance would be more fully under the AMA's control. Also since AMA has had a long history of managing it's own insurance business anyway, forming a captive company is not a huge leap forward. Rather, it is a logical and economical forward looking move. And not surprising given the business pedigree of most of the executive committee.

The advantage of creating the captive is that in the unlikely event that a catastrophic model flying year bankrupted the captive company, the organization could continue it's other functions.

Now, before you all pop off with your arguments and disagreements, be aware that this is a simplified explanation, and if you don't understand insurance and didn't pass econ 101, your are probably lost. The whole thing is highly complex, highly regulated by both the states and the federal government, and I seriously doubt that anyone who is proud of his inability to read a financial statement will have a clue what I am talking about.

Re: captive
 

Jeff,
Let's do it your way. The only way to reduce dues is to reduce our operating costs. So far we are in agreement. You contend that just because lots of other companies lay off workers that is the approach the AMA should take. My observation is that most companies that are taking that approach are also dropping services or lines of business and most of them are not in the service industry as the AMA is. Boeing and United both have definable products and the first thing they cut is service before they cut the people.

So, let's keep it simple. What services should we drop since we are going to lay off the people who make them happen? Sanctions? No more pylon races? No more scale contests? Or should we just drop the insurance component of the AMA and release the folks that deal with that?

Maybe we should release the folks who deal with clubs and get the AMA away from club activities.

Heck even if we SOLD Muncie, the services provided by the HQ staff would cost the same and we would not have a site to do anything with.

So, again I ask what AMA services should we stop so the AMA can lay of hard working people and keep the dues down.

As for your comments about reorganization, we are in more agreement than it seems.

Jim Branaum
AMA 1428

Whether You Care or Not
 

Dave Brown being impersonated on the internet


I did not see that anywhere...

Whether You Care or Not
 

Yep, I saw one post indicating it was from our AMA President - it wasn't!

Jerry

Whether You Care or Not
 

Somebody did register as Dave Brown, but it was discovered that he was not the real Dave Brown, so the ID was locked out.

Whether You Care or Not
 

I think Carl Maroney, too. I don't see where it was adressed by the EC, though, which is what I read the post above to be saying.
Anotehr guy also claimed that he had an email from Dave Brown, about the AMT Concorde, which flatly contradicted a conversation I had with DB a year or two ago. I did not buy that the email was from DB. Frankly, I am HAPPY that they do not adress stuff on this board. They do read some of it, but I would rather they spend their time on other things than mussing around on the boards.
I don't care for all the time Sandy Frank wastes sparring with moyons on usenet...better spend that time doing something more productive...
Curious about the property sale, though.

WHAT IT IS !!!
 

Captive insurance organizations include insurance companies that are owned and controlled by their insureds. A captive insurance company is described as single parent captive if it is owned and controlled by one company and insures that company and/or its subsidiaries.

A group captive is an insurance company owned and controlled by two or more non-affiliated organizations the captive insures.

A group captive can be either homogeneous and insure similar types of businesses risks or non-homogeneous and insure risks of several types of organizations. In the U.S., group captives are licensed by a domiciliary state and use a fronting carrier, or they operate under the Federal Risk Retention Act. The companies may be either stock, reciprocal or mutual in organizational form.

Whether You Care or Not
 

Good. They are laying the groundwork for our own insurance if Royal does not come through this year. What's the problem?

Whether You Care or Not
 

A correspondent points out to me that contrary to my statement above, Royal is actually eager to have the AMA's business. It is the re-insurers that contract to cover Royal that are reluctant to take on the AMA risk pool. So, there you have it, It is the re-insurers that are a bit risk averse.

Be that as it may, If Royal cannot contract for re-insurance they are not going to sign up to insure the AMA, so the point stands. If Royal goes the way of the Dodo, there will be no AMA insurance unless AMA creates an alternative. The proposed Captive is the most logical and cost effective choice.

Whether You Care or Not
 

UPS has their own insurance company. They started it. Although their was some contraversy over it, they still have it.

Whether You Care or Not
 

Explains why UPS is so reluctant to pay claims, even when there are clearly footprints all over the airplane box!

Whether You Care or Not
 

Was the "NOT THE REAL DAVE BROWN" somebody whose legal name was something different? OR was it just NOT the AMA's Dave Brown.

When I lived in Minnesota, I WORKED WITH a Dave Brown... It WAS NOT the Dave Brown who is with the AMA, but his LEGAL name WAS Dave Brown, and he DID fly model airplanes.

Whether You Care or Not
 

No, it was definitly someone posing as the "real" Dave Brown...