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50%plane 04-21-2006 04:53 PM

AMA E Membership(Poll added)
 
1 Attachment(s)
Well, Joyce Hager just emailed me. You probably got the same email, but if you didn't, here it is:



Dear AMA Member,

I am sending this E-mail to you in a request for your assistance. With recent advancements in electric R/C technologies and the advent of the very popular "Park Flyer" aircraft, the demographics of the modeling community are rapidly changing. In order to better serve our members the AMA Executive Council is considering instituting a membership program that is specifically aimed at addressing the needs of the park flyer pilots. We have defined these "park flyer modelers" as having models that weigh 2 pounds or less, do not exceed 60 mph, and do not fly higher than 200 feet.

This proposed program would have less insurance coverage, be limited to non-sanctioned events, and include a bimonthly magazine focusing on electric-powered aircraft. Additionally, we view this new membership group as establishing electric-power flying fields in urban areas and not being part of existing clubs. We have priced this program at $29.95 per year.

To better assess the views of the membership, the AMA Executive Council is seeking your input in answering the following questions:

1) Given your current involvement in the hobby, would an "electric only" program as described above better meet your needs?

2) If such an alternative membership program was offered, would you be inclined to choose this program over your existing full-service membership?

Again, I want to underscore that this is a proposed program.

Thank you for your assistance!

Joyce Hager

Acting Executive Director on behalf of the Membership Development Committee
Also the attached chart was included.


50%

Silent-AV8R 04-21-2006 05:29 PM

RE: AMA E Membership
 
60 MPH???? My giant scale aerobatic planes usually fly near that limit, or just slightly above it. I don't know about you guys, but a 2 pound plane doing 88 feet per second is going to pack one hell of a whallop!!!

The plan sounds like a good idea, but I think they need to seriously re think the 60 mph thing.

rcmiket 04-21-2006 05:43 PM

RE: AMA E Membership
 
I guess I see it as they woke up and are trying to adress this. Which is nice for a change not to mention they asked for our opion. By all means give them yours.

abel_pranger 04-21-2006 05:51 PM

RE: AMA E Membership
 

ORIGINAL: 50%plane

Well, Joyce Hager just emailed me. You probably got the same email, but if you didn't, here it is:
<snip>
I think the program is a good idea. I also think this poll of the membership is biased to shoot it down.

"1) Given your current involvement in the hobby, would an "electric only" program as described above better meet your needs?

2) If such an alternative membership program was offered, would you be inclined to choose this program over your existing full-service membership?"

This program was very clearly intended by those that proposed it to attract e-flyers that are not currently in the AMA fold. These questions are directed at current members, and the responses to the questions are clearly intended to demonstrate that some members will opt for the $29.95 membership deal and drop their current $58 membership.
I doubt that Joyce Hager is behind this email, but she has a boss and I don't doubt that you know who that is.

Abel

50%plane 04-21-2006 06:12 PM

RE: AMA E Membership
 
This whole plan looks to me to be an orchestrated attempt to hush the constant criticisms by offering a new idea.(did anyone else read the district reports in the latest MA?) However, this idea is crap and will only result in spending more money and dividing the membership over it.


50%

STLPilot 04-21-2006 06:12 PM

RE: AMA E Membership
 
I'm just wondering if this will cover you to fly anywhere that is legal to fly. Meaning if I smash into a car in a mall parking lot, am I covered? Or does coverage only carry to designated flying areas. If it covers anywhere, I'll be all over that coverage.

RCPAUL 04-21-2006 06:15 PM

RE: AMA E Membership
 
Gee, I wonder how the indoor rubber and HLG folks feel about this? The sure never got a break!

Paul

abel_pranger 04-21-2006 06:25 PM

RE: AMA E Membership
 

ORIGINAL: STLPilot

I'm just wondering if this will cover you to fly anywhere that is legal to fly. Meaning if I smash into a car in a mall parking lot, am I covered? Or does coverage only carry to designated flying areas. If it covers anywhere, I'll be all over that coverage.
If you are flying at a site where it is legal, you are covered. That's as clear as anything in AMA policy, which given the general muddiness of it does deserve some questioning. The material emailed by Ms. Hager is ambiguous on a related point - it doesn't state specifically that members under the proposed program can fly at AMA chartered club sites, but only refers to yet-to-be-established E-flying sites.

If you have a problem with people flying at other than 'designated flying areas,' be advised that half of AMA members do not belong to clubs.

Abel

redfox435cat 04-21-2006 06:31 PM

RE: AMA E Membership
 
60 mph is kinda low. The speed limit makes perfect sense but Alot of park flyer do well into the 80's on up, how do they propos enforcing this? My zagi is about 1.8 lbs and does around 75. it did a hair under 70 stock

ira d 04-21-2006 06:53 PM

RE: AMA E Membership
 
I think it is a step in the right direction as far as the price and the ins coverage is
concerned but I dont like all the restrictions.

I dont feel special fields need to be created for park flyers there is no reason they
cant use existing sites also there is no fair way to enforce speed and weight
restrictions that I can see.

Jim Thomerson 04-21-2006 06:57 PM

RE: AMA E Membership
 
I am philosophically against the idea of tiered memberships, I hark back to the old days when we flew all kinds of airplanes, across disciplines, and I hate to see lines drawn. I am glad to see some thinking about all this, as I have the naive view that the AMA ought to the organization for all model aviation.

704hank 04-21-2006 08:21 PM

RE: AMA E Membership
 
That is the way I feel. You are AMA or you are not.
Thats it cut and dry!!!![>:]

fritzthecat 04-21-2006 09:32 PM

RE: AMA E Membership
 
I don't know.....
For over 50% of the dues you get:

20% of the liability insurance.
0% of the medical
0% of the theft
Can't fly at any AMA field.
Can't enter any sanctioned contests.
Some non-existant E power fields

Doesn't look like a good bargain to me. Maybe at U$20 or even less.

Fritz

Ken Bryant 04-21-2006 10:50 PM

RE: AMA E Membership
 
I believe the questions are designed to create open and free thought and provide ideas and even more questions that need answers.

I understand that a Zagi flying at 90MPH would be very dangerous. Thus the requirement for a full membership and full insurance instead of a membership plan with a lower insurance premium.

Look at this from an insurance point of view. That's how to understand it.

My other question is if I am a full member who flies Park flyers as well as glow and everything else under the sun will I be able to attend park flyer fields and events and be covered with my normal membership?

YNOT 04-21-2006 11:19 PM

RE: AMA E Membership
 
Good job AMA.


Hossfly 04-21-2006 11:48 PM

RE: AMA E Membership
 


ORIGINAL: rcmiket

I guess I see it as they woke up and are trying to adress this. Which is nice for a change not to mention they asked for our opion. By all means give them yours.

Yes, everyone should send their opinion. I sent mine and copied both D. Brown and the good Dr. SF.

Here it is:

Hello Joyce, and those that have proposed and/or prepared this questionable item!

Since you do not mention anything about Chartered Clubs, yet you imply that the so called "Park Flier" ( BTW, could not the EC at least spell the name word correctly? Merriam Webster: "3. usually fly·er : an advertising circular ) will not participate at AMA Chartered Club Facilities at the 1/2 usual AMA fee. What about being a member of a Chartered Club?

That item should be corrected. How do you plan to educate these people to the real AMA if they are to be separated into some lower class? And then there is a thought that maybe they should not be brought face to face with the regulars all at one time!! HA! ;)

Bylaws Article III, Membership, (e) SPECIAL MEMBERS does allow for this item with benefits as limited by the Executive Council. Therefore the Chart so distributed should state specifically, in no uncertain terms, just what those benefits are.

Without the specifics so stated, as an AMA Member for over 50 years and a Leader since 1964, I am opposed to the current program as presented.

OTOH I will support the program providing all benefits, with specific relationship to the AMA Chartered Club SPECIFICALLY defined, is provided in the chart.

>>>>>1. Given your current involvement in the hobby, would an "electric only" program as described above better meet your needs? <<<<<<<

Absolutely no effect on my needs. I have NO interest in electric in any way. (However I now listen to Light Rock and pop music where 10 years ago and before I only listened to Country-Western. Things can change)

>>>>>2. If such an alternative membership program was offered, would you be inclined to choose this program over your existing full-service membership? <<<<<<<

Absolutely NOT. I am a Life Member, CD and Leader.

Horrace Cain
Leader # L-93

_______________________________________
In a message dated 4/21/2006 8:58:23 PM Central Standard Time, [email protected] writes:
Dear AMA Member,

I am sending this E-mail to you in a request for your assistance. With recent advancements in electric R/C technologies and the advent of the very popular "Park Flyer" aircraft, the demographics of the modeling community are rapidly changing. In order to better serve our members the AMA Executive Council is considering instituting a membership program that is specifically aimed at addressing the needs of the park flyer pilots. We have defined these "park flyer modelers" as having models that weigh 2 pounds or less, do not exceed 60 mph, and do not fly higher than 200 feet.

This proposed program would have less insurance coverage, be limited to non-sanctioned events, and include a bimonthly magazine focusing on electric-powered aircraft. Additionally, we view this new membership group as establishing electric-power flying fields in urban areas and not being part of existing clubs. We have priced this program at $29.95 per year.

To better assess the views of the membership, the AMA Executive Council is seeking your input in answering the following questions:

1) Given your current involvement in the hobby, would an "electric only" program as described above better meet your needs?

2) If such an alternative membership program was offered, would you be inclined to choose this program over your existing full-service membership?

Again, I want to underscore that this is a proposed program.

Thank you for your assistance!

Joyce Hager

Acting Executive Director on behalf of the Membership Development Committee

Program comparison details: (also attached as comparison.gif)

Current Open AMA dues Benefits Park Flyer AMA dues Benefits
Rate $58 $29.95
Insurance $2.5 million individual liability coverage $500,000 individual liability coverage
$25,000 medical coverage No medical coverage
$1,000 Fire, Theft & Vandalism coverage No Fire, Theft & Vandalism coverage
Participation in sanctioned events Yes No
Flying site Fly at current AMA chartered fields New park flyer E-fields to be established.
Magazine Monthly Model Aviation magazine Bimonthly E-focused AMA magazine melding MA E-type
and articles E-flight articles from existing publications


tailskid 04-22-2006 12:47 AM

RE: AMA E Membership
 
Could this separation spread? Someone mentioned rubber powered (I suppose Indoor). Will they be next to request a different 'tier'? Could we be opening a can or worms?

At least AMA is thinking:) That I like!

Jerry

Hossfly 04-22-2006 01:49 AM

RE: AMA E Membership
 
Jerry

Not to my way of thinking. Those that fly indoor rubber, gliders etc ( electric excepted as I don't know that crowd) are really dyed-in-the-wool craftsmen and artists. They are the ultimate modelers. They really never seem to think about anything AMA except paying the dues and being a member. Gentlemen they be.

typicalaimster 04-22-2006 07:51 AM

RE: AMA E Membership
 

Additionally, we view this new membership group as establishing electric-power flying fields in urban areas and not being part of existing clubs.
To me this sounds like there are a few individuals that are starting their own clubs in local parks. When you think about it most of those members would never visit a bigger field.

STLPilot 04-22-2006 08:01 AM

RE: AMA E Membership
 
Well the price is high for the coverage because insurance is price on volume. Since they are only test marketing it, they always have to go high as possible, but not too high.

I think it's a great idea. My question is there ever a need to have both? Will the E coverage cover anything that the regular one won't cover?

beepee 04-22-2006 08:16 AM

RE: AMA E Membership
 
Tell me how a club, or the AMA for that matter, can verify that the E-memeber's aircraft qualifies to the speed and altitude limit? There are 3 qualifications for this new tier and only one of them can be objectively measured. This is ripe for abuse.

Bedford

STLPilot 04-22-2006 08:28 AM

RE: AMA E Membership
 
How do you tell if a turbine is going 225 MPH or 275 MPH??

It's insurance and all insurance has guidlines as foundation. It goes like this, if you hurt someone or break something and there is proof that your model was travelling more then 60 MPH, then you will not be covered. If your model was going 80 but no proof that is was going that fast, you'll be covered. Capice?

Don't think too hard about it, it's not as complex as you think.

LSP972 04-22-2006 08:50 AM

RE: AMA E Membership
 


ORIGINAL: 50%plane

However, this idea is crap and will only result in spending more money and dividing the membership over it.
My thoughts exactly.

While I agree with Jerry that this shows some progressive thinking on AMA's part, what is the REAL motivation behind it? To attempt to rein in these "outlaws"? To tap a new source to increase membership rolls?

Methinks there is more here than meets the eye...

the-plumber 04-22-2006 09:07 AM

RE: AMA E Membership
 


Doesn't look like a good bargain to me. Maybe at U$20 or even less.
So, what can you buy for U$20 (or less) ?

A year's subscription to Backyard Flyer, with a nickel left over you can put toward "20% insurance".

the-plumber 04-22-2006 09:16 AM

RE: AMA E Membership
 


ORIGINAL: ira d
I dont feel special fields need to be created for park flyers there is no reason they
cant use existing sites also there is no fair way to enforce speed and weight
restrictions that I can see.
So, ignoring the enforcement problem, you believe "park flyers" who pay 50% dues should be allowed to fly at existing chartered club sites ?



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