AMA E Membership(Poll added)
 

Well, Joyce Hager just emailed me. You probably got the same email, but if you didn't, here it is:


Also the attached chart was included.


50%

RE: AMA E Membership
 

60 MPH???? My giant scale aerobatic planes usually fly near that limit, or just slightly above it. I don't know about you guys, but a 2 pound plane doing 88 feet per second is going to pack one hell of a whallop!!!

The plan sounds like a good idea, but I think they need to seriously re think the 60 mph thing.

RE: AMA E Membership
 

I guess I see it as they woke up and are trying to adress this. Which is nice for a change not to mention they asked for our opion. By all means give them yours.

RE: AMA E Membership
 

I think the program is a good idea. I also think this poll of the membership is biased to shoot it down.

"1) Given your current involvement in the hobby, would an "electric only" program as described above better meet your needs?

2) If such an alternative membership program was offered, would you be inclined to choose this program over your existing full-service membership?"

This program was very clearly intended by those that proposed it to attract e-flyers that are not currently in the AMA fold. These questions are directed at current members, and the responses to the questions are clearly intended to demonstrate that some members will opt for the $29.95 membership deal and drop their current $58 membership.
I doubt that Joyce Hager is behind this email, but she has a boss and I don't doubt that you know who that is.

Abel

RE: AMA E Membership
 

This whole plan looks to me to be an orchestrated attempt to hush the constant criticisms by offering a new idea.(did anyone else read the district reports in the latest MA?) However, this idea is crap and will only result in spending more money and dividing the membership over it.


50%

RE: AMA E Membership
 

I'm just wondering if this will cover you to fly anywhere that is legal to fly. Meaning if I smash into a car in a mall parking lot, am I covered? Or does coverage only carry to designated flying areas. If it covers anywhere, I'll be all over that coverage.

RE: AMA E Membership
 

Gee, I wonder how the indoor rubber and HLG folks feel about this? The sure never got a break!

Paul

RE: AMA E Membership
 

If you are flying at a site where it is legal, you are covered. That's as clear as anything in AMA policy, which given the general muddiness of it does deserve some questioning. The material emailed by Ms. Hager is ambiguous on a related point - it doesn't state specifically that members under the proposed program can fly at AMA chartered club sites, but only refers to yet-to-be-established E-flying sites.

If you have a problem with people flying at other than 'designated flying areas,' be advised that half of AMA members do not belong to clubs.

Abel

RE: AMA E Membership
 

60 mph is kinda low. The speed limit makes perfect sense but Alot of park flyer do well into the 80's on up, how do they propos enforcing this? My zagi is about 1.8 lbs and does around 75. it did a hair under 70 stock

RE: AMA E Membership
 

I think it is a step in the right direction as far as the price and the ins coverage is
concerned but I dont like all the restrictions.

I dont feel special fields need to be created for park flyers there is no reason they
cant use existing sites also there is no fair way to enforce speed and weight
restrictions that I can see.

RE: AMA E Membership
 

I am philosophically against the idea of tiered memberships, I hark back to the old days when we flew all kinds of airplanes, across disciplines, and I hate to see lines drawn. I am glad to see some thinking about all this, as I have the naive view that the AMA ought to the organization for all model aviation.

RE: AMA E Membership
 

That is the way I feel. You are AMA or you are not.
Thats it cut and dry!!!![>:]

RE: AMA E Membership
 

I don't know.....
For over 50% of the dues you get:

20% of the liability insurance.
0% of the medical
0% of the theft
Can't fly at any AMA field.
Can't enter any sanctioned contests.
Some non-existant E power fields

Doesn't look like a good bargain to me. Maybe at U$20 or even less.

Fritz

RE: AMA E Membership
 

I believe the questions are designed to create open and free thought and provide ideas and even more questions that need answers.

I understand that a Zagi flying at 90MPH would be very dangerous. Thus the requirement for a full membership and full insurance instead of a membership plan with a lower insurance premium.

Look at this from an insurance point of view. That's how to understand it.

My other question is if I am a full member who flies Park flyers as well as glow and everything else under the sun will I be able to attend park flyer fields and events and be covered with my normal membership?

RE: AMA E Membership
 

Good job AMA.

RE: AMA E Membership
 

Yes, everyone should send their opinion. I sent mine and copied both D. Brown and the good Dr. SF.

Here it is:

Hello Joyce, and those that have proposed and/or prepared this questionable item!

Since you do not mention anything about Chartered Clubs, yet you imply that the so called "Park Flier" ( BTW, could not the EC at least spell the name word correctly? Merriam Webster: "3. usually fly·er : an advertising circular ) will not participate at AMA Chartered Club Facilities at the 1/2 usual AMA fee. What about being a member of a Chartered Club?

That item should be corrected. How do you plan to educate these people to the real AMA if they are to be separated into some lower class? And then there is a thought that maybe they should not be brought face to face with the regulars all at one time!! HA! ;)

Bylaws Article III, Membership, (e) SPECIAL MEMBERS does allow for this item with benefits as limited by the Executive Council. Therefore the Chart so distributed should state specifically, in no uncertain terms, just what those benefits are.

Without the specifics so stated, as an AMA Member for over 50 years and a Leader since 1964, I am opposed to the current program as presented.

OTOH I will support the program providing all benefits, with specific relationship to the AMA Chartered Club SPECIFICALLY defined, is provided in the chart.

>>>>>1. Given your current involvement in the hobby, would an "electric only" program as described above better meet your needs? <<<<<<<

Absolutely no effect on my needs. I have NO interest in electric in any way. (However I now listen to Light Rock and pop music where 10 years ago and before I only listened to Country-Western. Things can change)

>>>>>2. If such an alternative membership program was offered, would you be inclined to choose this program over your existing full-service membership? <<<<<<<

Absolutely NOT. I am a Life Member, CD and Leader.

Horrace Cain
Leader # L-93

_______________________________________
In a message dated 4/21/2006 8:58:23 PM Central Standard Time, [email protected] writes:
Dear AMA Member,

I am sending this E-mail to you in a request for your assistance. With recent advancements in electric R/C technologies and the advent of the very popular "Park Flyer" aircraft, the demographics of the modeling community are rapidly changing. In order to better serve our members the AMA Executive Council is considering instituting a membership program that is specifically aimed at addressing the needs of the park flyer pilots. We have defined these "park flyer modelers" as having models that weigh 2 pounds or less, do not exceed 60 mph, and do not fly higher than 200 feet.

This proposed program would have less insurance coverage, be limited to non-sanctioned events, and include a bimonthly magazine focusing on electric-powered aircraft. Additionally, we view this new membership group as establishing electric-power flying fields in urban areas and not being part of existing clubs. We have priced this program at $29.95 per year.

To better assess the views of the membership, the AMA Executive Council is seeking your input in answering the following questions:

1) Given your current involvement in the hobby, would an "electric only" program as described above better meet your needs?

2) If such an alternative membership program was offered, would you be inclined to choose this program over your existing full-service membership?

Again, I want to underscore that this is a proposed program.

Thank you for your assistance!

Joyce Hager

Acting Executive Director on behalf of the Membership Development Committee

Program comparison details: (also attached as comparison.gif)

Current Open AMA dues Benefits Park Flyer AMA dues Benefits
Rate $58 $29.95
Insurance $2.5 million individual liability coverage $500,000 individual liability coverage
$25,000 medical coverage No medical coverage
$1,000 Fire, Theft & Vandalism coverage No Fire, Theft & Vandalism coverage
Participation in sanctioned events Yes No
Flying site Fly at current AMA chartered fields New park flyer E-fields to be established.
Magazine Monthly Model Aviation magazine Bimonthly E-focused AMA magazine melding MA E-type
and articles E-flight articles from existing publications

RE: AMA E Membership
 

Could this separation spread? Someone mentioned rubber powered (I suppose Indoor). Will they be next to request a different 'tier'? Could we be opening a can or worms?

At least AMA is thinking:) That I like!

Jerry

RE: AMA E Membership
 

Jerry

Not to my way of thinking. Those that fly indoor rubber, gliders etc ( electric excepted as I don't know that crowd) are really dyed-in-the-wool craftsmen and artists. They are the ultimate modelers. They really never seem to think about anything AMA except paying the dues and being a member. Gentlemen they be.

RE: AMA E Membership
 

To me this sounds like there are a few individuals that are starting their own clubs in local parks. When you think about it most of those members would never visit a bigger field.

RE: AMA E Membership
 

Well the price is high for the coverage because insurance is price on volume. Since they are only test marketing it, they always have to go high as possible, but not too high.

I think it's a great idea. My question is there ever a need to have both? Will the E coverage cover anything that the regular one won't cover?

RE: AMA E Membership
 

Tell me how a club, or the AMA for that matter, can verify that the E-memeber's aircraft qualifies to the speed and altitude limit? There are 3 qualifications for this new tier and only one of them can be objectively measured. This is ripe for abuse.

Bedford

RE: AMA E Membership
 

How do you tell if a turbine is going 225 MPH or 275 MPH??

It's insurance and all insurance has guidlines as foundation. It goes like this, if you hurt someone or break something and there is proof that your model was travelling more then 60 MPH, then you will not be covered. If your model was going 80 but no proof that is was going that fast, you'll be covered. Capice?

Don't think too hard about it, it's not as complex as you think.

RE: AMA E Membership
 

My thoughts exactly.

While I agree with Jerry that this shows some progressive thinking on AMA's part, what is the REAL motivation behind it? To attempt to rein in these "outlaws"? To tap a new source to increase membership rolls?

Methinks there is more here than meets the eye...

RE: AMA E Membership
 

So, what can you buy for U$20 (or less) ?

A year's subscription to Backyard Flyer, with a nickel left over you can put toward "20% insurance".

RE: AMA E Membership
 

So, ignoring the enforcement problem, you believe "park flyers" who pay 50% dues should be allowed to fly at existing chartered club sites ?

RE: AMA E Membership
 

Agree, although I simply answered Ms. Hager's email with "No" and "No" answers to her questions. My worry is that a tiered approach will proliferate and members active in other segments of the hobby perceived as "higher" risk (by opinion, not fact) will end up paying higher dues.

Mike

RE: AMA E Membership
 

Thanks but NO THANKS ama....i have homeowners... thats all thats needed:D

RE: AMA E Membership
 

Though the notion would provoke ridicule at AMA HQ, members of some existing chartered clubs might be capable of making their own decisions as to who should be allowed to fly at their club sites.

Abel

RE: AMA E Membership
 

I think they ought to take the park flyers and foamies and put them where the sun dont shine! Thats just my opinon.IF it aint GAS it aint class

RE: AMA E Membership
 

[quote]ORIGINAL: the-plumber


So, ignoring the enforcement problem, you believe "park flyers" who pay 50% dues
should be allowed to fly at existing chartered club sites ?
Yes I do think they should use existing club sites, the idea behind paying less is
because the will have less ins coverage.

also it will take a lot of time and be very costly to develop other sites.

RE: AMA E Membership
 

At the club sites where I fly, you have AMA insurance or you don't fly.

RE: AMA E Membership
 

Obviously they are asking the wrong people. Why ask current AMA members? They should be test marketing this for people just entering the hobby.

This is not much different then what the FAA did for sport pilot ticket and it seemed to work out just fine.

RE: AMA E Membership
 

if there club is on any county land and not owned by a person... they cant stop a non ama person from flying.... like at a county landfill that has been used and then filled...

RE: AMA E Membership
 

If its in the lease agreement they can. I'm not a AMA fan but our site is private property the guy lets us fly there due to the site owner insurance offered by the AMA. This is about the AMA for once asking us what we think and to me is a step in the right direction. Since your not a member why do you even care?

RE: AMA E Membership
 

im a member of the ama.. ive always had ama since i started in r/c ... not a fan but ill play by the rules... except this parkflyer deal.. i got into foamies/electrics for the very reason if i wanna step outside and go to small field after work and fly i can... its nice not to load up my gas/glow planes and drive to the field... i can throw a plane in the truck and drive 1/2 - 1mile down the road and fly...

RE: AMA E Membership
 

The AMA is simply trying to bolster their membership ranks by offrering the limp carrot of "less cost" out to the park flyers. IT WON'T WORK. Park flyers do not join the AMA for one simple reason - THEY DON'T WANT TO JOIN! Cost and insurance (or lack of) has absolutely nothing to do with it. They don't want the restrictions AMA membership would put on their flying.

For those of you who don't know, the idea of special membership/insurance for special groups has already been run up the flagpole by the AMA several times. No one has ever saluted. In the past, lower rates/insurance has been proposed for glider/sailplane pilots, pylon racers (higher), and a couple of other SIGs. The AMA DID manage to get a weight limit/insurance rider for large planes and a special license to fly jets is also required now.

I'll be one voting against it and recommending my DVPs do the same.

Dr.1

RE: AMA E Membership
 

How about this! Raise electric dues, lower open dues (split the difference) go to every other month on Mag. keep coverage the same for all. The increased membership would make up the difference in what they (AMA) pay out for Mag. and insurance?

RE: AMA E Membership
 

IF the ama would provide something other than "secondary" insurance maybe the "nothing but parkflyer" guys would bite... IF something happens and there is a claim.. your homeowners insurance pays first.. if you dont have homeowners then ama pay first...of course you could just contact your homeowners and get it written out of you policy that way AMA has to foot the bill

note: if something happens when i am flying my gas/glow planes my homeowners wont foot the bill the ama will.. which makes me and my insurance company happy.. if there is a claim on your homeowners your rates go up...

what about the guys w. renters insurance??? what if they have a claim against them what happens? anyone know... i looked in all the ama stuff i have but i cant find anything on that

RE: AMA E Membership
 

Hello All,
I've read through every post on this thread and agree with most of the comments. When I received the email from AMA, my first reaction was anger! It made me feel like a second class member. I think it's a bad idea for them to try to split the pack. I joined AMA so I could fly at the local flying field. It's a nice field and close to my house as well. My electrics are range from light and slow to fast and heavy. I enjoy the local club and have received much good advise from the members for plane set-ups, flying tips, and building tricks. Half the fun of the hobby for me is to share ideas leading to improved preformance of my next project.

I've had my run-ins at the club with certian members who think electrics don't count. The club president once asked me to fly away from the flight line over in the corner (standing in the weeds no less!). NO WAY! I pay full membership and won't accept second class status. I told him, I don't need the AMA and I don't need the club. Many members rallied behind me and told the prez, he was being unfair (jerk). The story has a happy ending. I'm still with the club, the prez is now my friend, he flies electric more than his gas/glow or turbines combined.

I know there is friction between electric and gas modelers. I'm not sure why. My club includes a wide varity of flyers; Scale, 3D, Jets, Funfly, Sport, Pattern, Lazy flyer, Biplane, Monoplane, Deltas, Tractors, Pushers, Balsa, Foam, Composite, Glow, Gas, Two stroke, Four stroke, Turbine, Electrics (Lipoly, Nicad, Nimh), Home built, Kits, ARC, ARF, RTF. I guess you get the picture. Why are electrics singled out? Why not glow plug Vs. spark plug?

The AMA has been slow to recognize the rise of electric flight and seem way out of touch with it's electric flight members. Perhaps what they need is some competition.

JB

RE: AMA E Membership
 

Not the greatest idea, but lets run with it for a moment.
#1 money isnt the issue - Park Flyers dont join because they dont want to, not because they cant afford it.
#2 creating lines isnt the best idea when we have so many different groups in the orginization. AMA's mission is better served through unity. (boy i'm gonna get it for that one!) Although there are flaws, its all we got.
#3 If you want to boost membership, sell the VALUE of belonging to the orginization, not a cheaper-reduced-price-campaign. (most people can see right thru this tactic)

Ted