Lack of growth
 

It's just not just the AMA who has a problem with growth:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14033493/

As an aside, less than 40% of furloughed airline pilots return after being recalled. They all love flying, but are fed up with lack of job security and have moved on to non avaition careers.
BRG,
Jon

RE: Lack of growth
 

Good perspective that certainly relates to not only AMA but many others organizations. I'm involved in Kiwanis - as well as RC flying, golf, etc. - and we are having a very hard time maintaining our membership numbers, as is Lion’s Club, etc.. There are simply so many activity opportunities out there that folks - especially younger folks - are not able to participate in all in which they may wish to participate. And I completely agree with the negative impact of video games, PCs and other 'instant gratification' activities on those which require even a modicum of physical activity or time.

RE: Lack of growth
 

And I completely agree with the negative impact of video games, PCs and other 'instant gratification' activities on those which require even a modicum of physical activity or time.

AMEN!

Dr.1

RE: Lack of growth
 

Might I add that there is a bit more selfishness in todays youth. I say that as a 30 year old and see almost zero people under 40 years old thinking of anyone or anything other than themselves. Having said that, the few that are selfless seem to be the exception and NOT the rule like with the older age catagory (40yrs old +). I firmly believe this is a generational problem and a parenting issue.
As a case and point adults are fighting in the stands at their kids little league games, and screaming for the kids to kill the other team!!!!
Out for themselves..all the way...

RE: Lack of growth
 

Might I add that there is a bit more selfishness in todays youth. I say that as a 30 year old and see almost zero people under 40 years old thinking of anyone or anything other than themselves.

It's the "all about me" generation. I've seen it, too. [:o]

Dr.1

RE: Lack of growth
 

Amateur radio (ham radio) is an example of this trend, too. While the total number of amateur radio licenses actually increased through 2003, if one looks at growth as a percentage of population, the trend is dismal. I saw stats claiming that the number of licensees in this decade has declined. The decades of the 30's and 50's showed huge growth in licenses granted by the FCC: 194% and 164%. So far this decade, it's declined by 3%. (Stats came from qrz.com.) The funny thing is, some old timers claim that it's much easier to get a license now: the morse code speed tests have been lowered or dropped completely, the new question pools are easier, and ironically, the internet makes it much easier to study for the tests. The code speed claim is factual, but I don't know how one would support the others. I earned my extra license and only needed 13wpm code speed.

Anyway, I find it interesting that the national ham radio organization, the American Radio Relay League (another acronym like AMA frequently confused) is struggling to maintain membership and growth much like AMA and model aviation. Both hobbies involve some technical skill, and both hobbies used to require much more technical skill to get on the air/be in the air, IMHO. Even though it might be "easier" now to be a ham or start flying RC, there are still fewer and fewer making the choice to do so.

Maybe making things easier isn't the right way to go...
Mike ac0bd

RE: Lack of growth
 

Does anyone remember Heathkits? You could even build your own R/C system, and it was state of the art at the time, too. TVs, radios, shortwave sets, stereos; almost anything electronic.

Dr.1

RE: Lack of growth
 

I built a Heathkit morse code oscillator 35 years ago and I still use it. The radios are sold at hamfests all the time, usually quite quickly!

RE: Lack of growth
 

I could not agree more! (I'm 32) "A bit" is quite an understatement. This is the time of not just instant gratification, but self gratification.

RE: Lack of growth
 

LOL you know I threw in the "A bit" because I did not want to paint with a broad brush and say EVERYONE is selfish, but the truth is it sure seems that way!!!!
It's really sad, Iwent to a high school that required you to do 40 hrs of community service per year in order to move to the next grade, now that was found to be outside the core curriculumn and students are able to opt out......
How freakin sad is that.

RE: Lack of growth
 

After reading the article I was thinking about what it cost me to get my licensce in 1975.

The Champ I soloed in was $15/hr, the instructor was $20/hr.
Cherokee 140 was $20/hr, if you flew the "new" one it was $22/hr.
If I remember, it cost me around $950 to get my private.
I flew a Super Cub and it was $25/hr.
I then reached my ultimate goal back then and flew a Stearman that went for $30/hr.
Can you imagine anyone renting out a Stearman today, at any cost? I sure was in the right place at the right time.
In 1976 I flew the family from Wallkill, NY to New Orleans, in a long day, and cost me almost the same if I went commercial.
However, we had a great time flying and it was fun as the kids took turns trying to read the chart and helping me "navigate".
Also, when you looked out the window you could actually see things on the ground!
Now you'd have to be independently wealthy to make the same trip, and would probably cost more than going commercial, even if you were able to navigate around/through the various types of controlled airspace. Back then the only thing I had to deal with was the Philadelphia TCA, and I flew over it since I didn't have the equipment to go through it. The rest was just a straight line to the various stops along the way.
BRG,
Jon

RE: Lack of growth
 

As a member of the generation being bashed here, I can't disagree with any statement here as none of it is lacking in truth.


50%

RE: Lack of growth
 

As a member of the generation being bashed here

And if you are truly not that way, Chris, I sincerely apologize to you.

Dr.1

RE: Lack of growth
 

Hang gliding is in the same state of decline. Para gliding, with it's easy to carry equipment has surpassed the ol' aluminum and dacron hang glider. Who wants a roof rack when you can toss your glider in the boot of your car? My hang glider weighs in at 60 lbs. Paragliders tip the scales at maybe 30 lbs.
Now throw in the fact you can get a power pack and no longer need a mountain and powered paragliding is rapidly growing.
No one wants to run up and down hills all day in the hot sun to learn to hang glide. No one wants to spend hours on the hill only to pack up and go home because the winds are to strong (or to light).

Oh by the way, I'm in the above mentioned generation[&o], but i don't think i fit the above mention stereotype.

RE: Lack of growth
 

Most people in a hobby won't fit that description. It's the guys that sit around watching the TV that in previous generations were more active. It's caused the decline of anything except TV ratings.

RE: Lack of growth
 

To an extant, EVERY generation thinks people were better in "their day." However, a quick read of history shows that the population was not doing a world-wide group-hug 4 generations ago, so it is probably a case of perception (you remember it better than it was).

And...for the record...most people are more selfish when they are young. I remember what I use to be like...why somebody didn't just run me over with a milk truck is beyond me. And so, the older people think the newer generation is "worse."

HOWEVER...there is a decline in joining clubs, but that's mainly because of the internet. You can connect with people of similar interests for FREE, so why join a club?

But gaming has certainly changed our view of what is a good time. I remember as a kid, if my parents needed me out of the way, they would send me off with a copuple buddies to hit the bike trails, play some baseball, or something...ANYTHING...JUST GET OUT OF THIS HOUSE! [&:] My idea of a good time has always been something outside with friends, so RC modeling at clubs is a perfect fit.

These days, when a parent needs some peace, they crank up the Playstation or XBox. Kids are literally being raised to associate private play-time as a good time. Parkflyer, anyone? They "connect" with modelers from the privacy of their own room through use of forums, and then play solo at the park. Generation X is old news. Meet Generation Solo.

However, I'm sort of in-between. I got hooked by the Playstation craze as well. It wasn't until a couple years ago that I really got back into flying again. Until then, I would jsut occasionally toss the Zagi around. I had maintained my AMA mostly for nostalgic purposes during those days.

Yes, clubs in general will decline. However, the online "clubs" are going to flourish. Take this site, for example. :D

RE: Lack of growth
 

DR1, I include myself in the characterization of my generation in this thread. Read my post verbatim. I fully agree with all that is posted here.

Let's take things for reality. My generation did learn in from my parents generation, and my parents generation learned it from their parents generation, etc. This decline had to start somewhere. It didn't just happen, but it's the responsibility of each and every person to live their life, no matter how they choose to do so. Unfortunately, all persons in a generation will be chartacterized by the worst in their generation.

50%

RE: Lack of growth
 

That's true, 50%. Unfortunately, many of my generaton have taught their kids these "ethics", either by commission or by omission.

When I was young, I never had enough money to get really good at the arcade games, and my folks weren't about to buy me a Playstation-type device, much less a computer to "just play games". Therefore, I never learned the love for these games that so many have now. Also, I had friends. REAL friends, flesh and blood, that I saw every day at school or in my neighborhood. Another poster said it right. "Go out and play." was a common phrase in my house. I biked, played sandlot football and other sports, "hung around", and sometimes got into trouble doing it. [8D] The bottom line: I had fun with PEOPLE, not a video screen.

Dr.1

RE: Lack of growth
 

Lack of growth is a good thing...As long as we have the freedom of choice.

Just as horse drawn wagons are all but gone so will be Morse code and model building as we know it or knew it. Just like building radios for by older “tech head” modelers was for their self satisfaction the new generation “tech head” may enjoy writing code to accomplish their particular challenge or maybe robotics might be the choice. Actually things have just evolved and other interests are simply displacing our particular interest choice.

I really don't buy into the assertion that the new generation is just about instant gratification. They just have a different gratification choice. There are many more choices to invest time into now than when we were kids and the resultant decline in some interest choices is natural. Back in the 50s instant gratification was about the freedom of buying a car and feeling of freedom to drive and do as you wish. Today it still exists but in a much more limited way. Things change and the day will come when driving a car or motorcycle will be attached to some many regulations and responsibilities it will not be enjoyable except to a few well positioned individuals.

Take a long hard look at all the instant gratification you have allowed yourself before casting stones. You could have built the PC, monitor and written the code to use such…but you didn’t. Click…click …click… In the end we are all in the same boat.

It always amazes me that we fight for freedom and liberty but when it is exercised the very ones that fought for it want compliance to conformity...just another weird human nature… I guess.

RE: Lack of growth
 

All of you guys are 100% correct and are saying exactly what I too have been saying for quite a few years. The kids don't care what an item costs, just what are the payments per month. And where this country is headed, I don't think we will have to worry about it much longer. MM

RE: Lack of growth
 

Well, since I'm a hillbilly, I have a similar upbringing to yours.

RE: Lack of growth
 

Well, it's not possible to prove my (our) position without going into politics, religion and other things that have no place here. It is easy enough to prove the more selfish nature of young adults these days by simply noting the decline of marriage. The idea is that committing to someone else would mean your life would belong less to yourself. Yeah, those of us that were lucky enough to find someone that would also commit to us know the sheer stupidity behind that idea. Some are willing to make a less tenuous commitment to a club, but most aren't. Unless the club actually gives something back. The AMA doesn't really offer anything to the average joiner. I've made that point in many arguements.

RE: Lack of growth
 

Aww Man, that's nothing.

My folks were so poor I didn't have anything to play with except the occasional woody.:(

Abel

RE: Lack of growth
 

Its not just private pilots that have decreased in 25 years. The number of licensed private airplanes has decreased . Fuel is now 4.40 per gallon. A c172 will cost nearly 100 dollars per hour wet. I private license will cost you nearly 8 grand. I stint at Emery Riddle will run you over 80 thousand dollars. And that gets you a 17k job ridding shotgun in RJ's.
In the early 1990's , congress passed legislation allowing airlines to not fund their retirement accounts. Now, all, but two airlines have defaulted on their retirements. Retired pilots can expect to receive about 1/8 of their annuities. And entry level salaries are capped very low.
Flying, as a career isn't what it once was. I would not recommend it . As for private flying. it is very expensive. Insurance has gone way up, fuel, T hangars are 250 a month. You can easily spend 600/month to NOT fly.
Right now, energy costs, electric bills and gas cards are hitting Americans very hard. Discretionary income is burned up by energy, just as it was in the 1970's. Households are spending 600, 700, 800 per month at Exxon and another 400 or 500 an A/C.
At the same time, the average wages in the US are declining.
Sometimes the answer is so obvious that people can't see it. The forest for the trees.
These young people aren't lazy or unmotivated. I work with them. They are very motivated and dedicated. They are also in an amazing amount of debt and competing for very few jobs. Their skills are very perishable. They MUST find work immediately . This is a tuff racket. Most people don't understand until they try it. ANd now, with the economy starting to swirl in a cyclonic pattern, of course aviation is revealed again as a luxury and a difficult career path.

RE: Lack of growth
 

Good points and well said. I especially agree with the above.

I think it is time we look at what we have done to set the stage for what is inevitable and quit blaming the future on our kids!