Any tax attorneys in the house? Please contact RCadmin RE: AMA 2001 Financials...
 

I want to know if we have any tax attorneys or CPA's in the house here...I need somebody who is an expert to look over the AMA 2001 financials and point out to me if there are any points of interest that stand out or that I should possibly inquire about. I also have a few questions on the numbers that I want to know if I'm reading them correct. I'm a far better programmer/webmaster than accountant and know when to surround myself with an expert :)

Here is a link to the 2001 AMA financial report...if you can please contact me via email or PM and we can go forward from there. It is in the members only section...if you aren't an ama member lmk and I can send it to you for review.

http://www.modelaircraft.org/templates/membersonly

AMA
 

Would you explain your personal beef with the AMA?

Any tax attorneys in the house? Please contact RCadmin RE: AMA 2001 Financials...
 

I don't feel the majority of members interests are being properly represented at this time. I want a CPA or tax attorney to look over the financials to see if anything sticks out and I (not being a CPA) have some questions about it that I want to ensure I understand correct.

If you read my poll you will see that about 2/3 of the membership use the AMA for insurance purposes either out of necessity or voluntarily but are not interested in other "benefit" offered yet bear the cost of them which a small minority take advantage of or use.

If you read the threads in the ama forum or in the poll you will get more answer to your question unless the above suffices.

Any tax attorneys in the house? Please contact RCadmin RE: AMA 2001 Financials...
 

I think you meant to say, "2/3 of the RCU members who responded to my poll". That's a LOT different than "2/3 of the [AMA] membership".

Any tax attorneys in the house? Please contact RCadmin RE: AMA 2001 Financials...
 

well the AMA site really sucks to find info ...how many AMA member are there?

Any tax attorneys in the house? Please contact RCadmin RE: AMA 2001 Financials...
 

pinball that is correct...I should have specified 2/3 of the RCU members who voted...not 2/3 of the entire membership (thinking too fast last night). My mistake for not clarifying...


I'll bet dollars to doughnuts if the AMA sent out a mailer with the same question to it's members the numbers would come back within plus or minus 3.5% much to the minority's disappointment. Hope they don't blame me as I didn't program 100,000 AMA members with any opinion...every one has their own and is entitled to it just the same. Question is will AMA ask what it's members want? If they vote along the lines of the poll I ran would they effect change and give the majority what they want?

What I am trying to find out on these financials is exactly how much the Muncie building and site cost total over the last couple years and what is the cost of maintaining such a property and structure annually. It may be in those numbers in the report but I want to ensure I'm reading them correct as I am not a CPA and don't play one on RCU!

Any tax attorneys in the house? Please contact RCadmin RE: AMA 2001 Financials...
 

Way to go Marc !!!!!

With the voices of the intense amount of members here, They (the AMA) can't give anyone any guff about how most of us feel about the AMA.
Personally, If it wasn't for the insurance I wouldn't be involved.

Good luck, I'd like to know what you find out.

RON

Any tax attorneys in the house? Please contact RCadmin RE: AMA 2001 Financials...
 

Mark,
I too am a much better computer geek/programmer/webmaster than I am an accountant. BUT....... as a network consultant I do have several accounting firms as my clients. Let me see if I can get them to take a look at the financial statement for us. I will say that it may take a bit, so please be patient. The first 4 months of the year are the worst time for any CPA because it's the tax season. But I will see if I can get them to look at it.

And I agree with you about most AMA members not caring. I think that is why the AMA has such a free hand in what they do, because they know that the membership won't call them on the carpet about it. In this day and age of flying fields disappearing around the country, I would rather see AMA money used to protect and develop flying fields rather than lining the nest in Muncie.

I hope that the AMA realizes that as a non-profit organization they are subject to open investigation from anyone in the world that asks!!! I think they are counting on membership apathy to get away with stuff

Any tax attorneys in the house? Please contact RCadmin RE: AMA 2001 Financials...
 

First let me state that I'm not an officer, employee or affiliate of the AMA other than its membership. Im just a hobbyist! I have been a member for many, many years.

The AMA has done a lot for our passion. The frequencies on our radios is just one example. The site at Muncie was under much critcism in years past but after visiting the site during the Nats I am glad the site was built and is properly maintained. It is a symbol of our organization and success.

There is no doubt that within any organization oportunities for improvements exist. An open forum allows those ideas to be presented, discussed and sometimes executed. Through this open forum a Financial Statement is published and it is every members right to examine this statement and express their opinions. I strongly believe that the AMA does have the best interest of the modelers at heart but they also have a business to run and at times some decisions may not be very popular. In the long run history has shown that decisions have been made with the modelers interests first.

Lets not forget that we elected these folks to do this very difficult job. I applaud those that question Financial Statements and any other report that is published, I also applaud those in office that had the insight to make a difference. But lets not forget that the reason to question these documents is to improve our organization and not to beat someone up!

If you have better ideas, skills or leadership, you should run for office. You never know, you might even get my vote!

rcgear

Any tax attorneys in the house? Please contact RCadmin RE: AMA 2001 Financials...
 

rcgear - your points were very well communicated. I will give you credit for that. I would like to comment on a few of them though. The 1st is frequencies...that was a LONG time ago and keep in mind the AMA takes in about 10 million a year and spends half of that or more easily...not leaving much for the FCC lobby effort RELATIVE to what big business can do for our frequencies if ever called upon. Hobbico, Horizon, Global have combined revenue in the several hundred million range annualy so trust in them (just like in the real world) that they will step up to the plate to save our frequencies if need be. With their deeper pockets and better access into Washington DC with those dollars THEY will be the ones to give us representation if it was needed.

I'm glad to hear you went to Muncie and saw how beautiful it was. The only issue I have with that is that you are one of the few relative to the membership. Out of 178,000 members how many will ever visit Muncie? If you say 10 or 15 thousand that might be the best case scenario ever...this means that the $10 million dollar money pit there (in the middle of nowhere relatively speaking) cost the bulk of the membership out of pocket dollars for something they will never use, see or need.

You say " If you have better ideas, skills or leadership, you should run for office. You never know, you might even get my vote!" but the problem with that is votes don't count in the AMA. I'll use an extreme example right now. Let's say I wanted to be AMA president (I'm not quite that crazy yet but for the sake of example let's run with it...). You hear my ideas, love what you hear and so does 95% of the AMA membership. Next miracle is that rather than the normal 15% voter turnout they get this next presidential election it goes up to 99%!!! Then we go a step further and make it so EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE VOTES went to me. Guess what? I can't be your president. Why not you ask? That is because the rules were written that way. So ideally if we have somebody we want to lead us our votes might not actually make a hill O' beans of difference. Those rules can be changed by the AMA but will they be so bold and change them?

Any tax attorneys in the house? Please contact RCadmin RE: AMA 2001 Financials...
 

Marc, I was surprised to read your request. Not that's its unusual but that it was from you. I've been a member of various message boards, typically related to my professional field and other interest, and never have I seen the board administrator do anything but ride a fence on any issue.

Finally an administrator with some cajones questioning the powers to be.

Thank you

Any tax attorneys in the house? Please contact RCadmin RE: AMA 2001 Financials...
 

Marc:

You raise some very interesting points and certainly wothy of further discussion/investigation. The only issue I have is with Muncie. The facility is built and available for all members. I live in Florida, I have only been there once. The argument of creating better flying fields throughout the nation instead of Muncie is one that should be explored. I'm not saying that I would be in favor of that but rather would listen and consider the options.

Your example of elections was somewhat extreme.... But entertaining! I think you hit the nail on the head and probably established the cause for all issues within the AMA when you stated that only 15% of members participated in the election process. Perhaps, just maybe the problems lie within ourselves. If we don't vote, let our voices be heard the powers to be will execute their mandates the best way they can. We always write to our Congressmen but how many of us have written to our AMA District Vice President and demanded an answer. After all, he is our representative within this organization. Better yet, how many of us have met our District Vice President?

Either way, keep up the good work. An open forum for the exchange of ideas, questioning those things that should be answered is what will make us grow. No one should ever be upset for being questioned! They should be flattered that their work is that important!

rcgear

Any tax attorneys in the house? Please contact RCadmin RE: AMA 2001 Financials...
 

I agree with RCGEAR, it would interesting to see how many AMA members actually used their voting rights in the last election. Marc could be your turn on the stump :) Seriously, we live in a democracy and if we as a group voted in one direction it would make a suggnificant impact to what is going on with the AMA.
Jeff

Any tax attorneys in the house? Please contact RCadmin RE: AMA 2001 Financials...
 

Jeff (maineflyer) - it is now setup that it could take up to 3 years of voting every single year to get a stronghold of the EC committee (only 3 VP's voted in per year) and then it would take years to get a new president if dave brown was not open to these changes proposed since only somebody who has a position in the AMA now can be eligible for presidency (nice tall barrier huh?) Better to start now I guess than later.

Sdr - thanks. well...going out on a big limb like this has risks but when I consider the alternative of standing by and watching this ship head in a wrong direction I figured what's the harm? If some people leave RCU simply because they don't agree with me that would be sad since I allow them to voice as much dissent and disagreement to my views as they like.

As the owner of RCU and administrator all I hope is that those who agree or disagree with me or anyone else can respect that these are issues we might have a difference of opinion on and that is ok. Doesn't mean if I was at a flying field and met my biggest non supporter in these ideas that I wouldn't have a good time hanging out with him/her. I know at least one moderator here who I'm sure very much disagrees with my idea to sell off Muncie (which I truly now feel was an unnecessary money pit not in the best interest of the majority of AMA members) and use the proceeds in a productive manner. However this moderator is still a mod here and I consider him a friend and would love to fly with him someday. I am certain no heated arguments would occur and we both understand we have different perspectives and respect each others opinions.

There are a couple ways to effect change. One is if the AMA VP's start listening. Maybe this poll will make them scratch their heads a bit and dig deeper. If they refuse then the only way is to put people in office who want to steer the ship WHERE THE MEMBERS WANT IT TO GO. RCU has the size and mass to make or break any candidate. Outside of the major magazines this AMA forum is the only non biased, tell it like it is platform to compete with whatever information might published in Model Aviation Magazine. The internet is the great equalizer. :)

Any tax attorneys in the house? Please contact RCadmin RE: AMA 2001 Financials...
 

I fly off of a runway that is full of cracks. In fact we have to go out and weed whack the grass growing in the cracks about 4-5 times a summer. Occasionally we can sneak some Round-up in the cracks and that will take care of it for the summer. Why are we sneaking it?? Because our airfield is located on an Army base in SW Oklahoma (Ft. Sill to be exact) and they very much frown upon us using herbicides (EPA regs and all of that). The Army has had repaving our runway on their "to-do" list for about 4 years now, but with budget cuts first and now deployment budgets second there is no money to repave our runway. The Army has said that they would gladly let us have it repaved if we pay for it. But we are a very small and loosely organized club and coming up with that kind of money is next to impossible.

I for one know that I will NEVER be able to go to Muncie and fly. So does that big building and airfield do me any good?? Not at all, there is nothing that benefits me from that money spent.

Where am I going with this rant??? I think there are a lot of other ways that the AMA can spend it's money. Why spend millions of dollars to build an airfield that only a small percentage of the AMA membership will ever use?? Why not put that money into benefiting all of the members??? The money could be used to help clubs improve/maintain their fields. Or to help clubs establish fields. From what I have read on RCU and in several magazines I have concluded that one of the biggest problems facing our hobby these days is the loss of our flying fields. I think that the money and political weight of the AMA could be better used to help protect these precious resources. I know that the AMA couldn't build repair fields for all of the clubs in the US, but by investing the money in safe investments they would be able to set up a trust fund that would continue to provide money for this task. Then they could use that money to take care of clubs on a yearly rotating list. This way everybody benefits, not just the people that fly in Muncie.

I know that part of my yearly dues goes to insurance for flying, but I don't think that the amount of my dues that goes to insurance is that big of a part of my dues. Let's find better ways to spend that money. And as I've stated in another post, I don't mind my dues going up if they money is being used wisely or constructively.

As with any political organization in the United States, nothing is going to happen until enough people get fed up with the existing establishment and demand change. I think that it is sad that the AMA seem to ignore the comments posted here on RCU. I would hope that the AMA was smarter than that. In today's technology age the internet is the perfect tool to organize a grass-roots organization to make changes. I would hope that the AMA would have realized that and would use this platform (RCU) to respond to the complaints against it. I don't know what the exact numbers are for RCU subscribers but I remember that they are quite large. This is the perfect forum to organize and build just such a grass-roots organization to make the changes that would be needed in the AMA. If the EC and VP's of the AMA can't recognize that this could happen then they deserve to be put out anyway because it shows that they don't care about the people that they serve, and if they do care then I invite them to end their silence and actively address the issues that the membership have repeatedly posted here on RCU.

Come on Dave and the rest of the AMA leadership. I actively challenge you to come on RCU and address these issues. I know that even if they don't read RCU, somebody that knows them does read it and can get the message to them. Please end your silence and talk to the people that pay your salary. Oops, did I say that??? Yep, I sure did. We pay your salary. Maybe it's time to start listening to the people that you work for!!!!

Ok, that's enough of a rant for right now. I'm sure that this will ignite some fires. But hey, maybe it's time to light some fires!!!!

Any tax attorneys in the house? Please contact RCadmin RE: AMA 2001 Financials...
 

Regarding the 15% or so voter turnout issue... not sure if that was actual, or a guess.
I will say that, whatever the true voting percentage was... that's probably the percentage
of the membership who really does care about the AMA, in its current form. The rest of
the membership apparently cares so little about the process, they didn't bother voting.
(Or they know, or think that they're so much in the minority, that their vote won't matter)

To me, the non-voting majority are probably the ones who see the AMA merely as some
necessary evil, that is forced upon us, by most flying clubs where we'd like to fly.

Even here at RCU, you'll only gather a tiny percentage of your overall membership, I'm sure,
who will actually take the time to vote in your poll. You'll probably gather 50%, or better, of
the people who are adamantly in favor of the current process, and they'll speak out, telling
us what the AMA has done for us, telling us what the Muncie facility means to us, etc...
but it's my opinion that you'll only see a small percentage of folks who really dislike the AMA,
or at least, dislike the way the AMA is currently run. Politics run strong, even within clubs,
and to speak out here may cause contention within the ranks at a more local level.
Pro-AMA people can speak out all they like, because they'll be regarded as being the
ones "in the right", by any AMA-chartered club, no doubt. No fear there, of speaking up.

Some people avoid strife at all costs, and as such, will never speak out for themselves,
so as not to cause problems or disagreements, either online, or at their local flying field.

You see the same thing in the corporate world... people afraid to speak up to management,
or against management's decisions in any way, because they know they'll last a lot longer
by merely "going with the flow" and being a "team player". The movers and shakers speak
up far more often, (which is why they're movers and shakers) but their turnover rate is higher ;)


To me, the AMA has been around long enough that they're the only "trusted" option by
a lot of landowners, particularly true for government-owned sites, like your local landfills.
Of course nobody questions it... since the club requires AMA to fly, itself.
As long as the local clubs never explore any options, other than AMA, I don't see
where anything will ever put the AMA "on notice" that the membership wants a change.
(I'm certainly not boycotting the AMA... because I like flying where I fly, and I'm squarely in
the percentage of "I have it because it is forced upon me" AMA members out here.)


I've always felt that questions were the first step in effecting any changes. You have to just
be prepared for the fallout by the "change is bad" crowd, and know that it generally
takes a couple of generations before any true change ever comes about. It takes one
generation of people questioning historical actions, and the status quo, to get the
next one seriously talking about it, in enough numbers to ever see anything really change.
Eventually, someone from the "we need a change" group will come into a position
where they might be able to put things to a vote, and to actually make those changes.

I agree that the AMA makes it harder for an individual to do that.
Sadly, it may be a very long time before the silent majority ever rallies together in
sufficient numbers to ever make a difference. Those in the ivory tower know this, and chuckle.

Any tax attorneys in the house? Please contact RCadmin RE: AMA 2001 Financials...
 

It is sad that with a forum like this where you can get "in touch" with your membership that all VP's and even Dave don't come here to discuss the issues. Perhaps they feel they will get blasted or mistreated in some way but AMA members discussing their needs is not something they should ignore. I invite them all to come on here and express their views. I did it. I put myself on the line with some pretty bold statements and take whatever heat I get for it. These guys are in political positions and thus accepted this in doing so and the heat that invariably come with it. They should be here discussing the issues if they value the AMA, aeromodeling and all the AMA members.

I know several AMA VP's do read these boards. What gets filtered up I don't know for sure but I still think that in 2003 they should all be online at least every couple weeks if not more often. How can you tell what your members want if you don't get in the trenches with them and ask?

Any tax attorneys in the house? Please contact RCadmin RE: AMA 2001 Financials...
 

Sandy Frank was (is?) pretty active on rec.models.rc.air. Of course people would flame him in the most vulgar way for his communication style, etc. I don't know how thick his skin is, but I can imagine his impression of folks that hang around the Internet a lot.

Any tax attorneys in the house? Please contact RCadmin RE: AMA 2001 Financials...
 

I started a thread last August when the financials where printed in Model Aviation. At that time I asked for a honest accounting in plain (plane?) English so all of the membership of the AMA would get an understanding of where its money is being spent. Thanks Marc for undertaking that request.

Any tax attorneys in the house? Please contact RCadmin RE: AMA 2001 Financials...
 

I think you are doing a great job getting our members at least thinking about change in our ama Marc , but I have to say we had one gruff old dude on the ballot and ready to go in and start moving and shaking up the good old boys club in Muncie and all he heard from our little group was that he didn't know enough about accounting and such to get the job done. The funny thing is that he was willing just as you are with this thread to find and keep the contacts needed to help him get the job done and shake things up and make people account for their actions. On top of that he knows the ins and outs of the organization and could have started shaking things up faster than the three or four years that it will take now to get the change ball rolling. I guess what I'm saying is we missed the boat on a quick start to reform as far as the ama is concerned by not getting HC in there kicking butt now not three or four years from now. Now this should get a few hackels standing on end hey?? I agree with everything that has been said about the Muncie pit, hell I live in the middle well upper middle part of the country and will probably never see the hallowed halls of the pit . I think it was money down the tubes that could have been distributed around the country to better several sites not just one. They could have set up a nice loan program for clubs to take advantage of and they could have had a couple of thousand mini Muncies so to speak, it would have spread the big events out around the country and that would have made a lot more people aware of our sport/hobby.

Any tax attorneys in the house? Please contact RCadmin RE: AMA 2001 Financials...
 

If most members who are registered here at RCU want change in AMA then its time to pick a candidate that we want to be president and start the political process and make it happen. Change can only happen with the first step, now that we have talked about it its time to get to work. Get organized, select a committee that will find a willing candidate that thinks the way the majority of modelers do here at RCU. Who is going to step up and start the process?

Any tax attorneys in the house? Please contact RCadmin RE: AMA 2001 Financials...
 

Taildrager,

Perfect...let's call this "Operation: The New AMA". The first step is to find 3 candidates to who's belief is in making some of the changes that are needed and outlined here. This next election gives us the opportunity to elect 3 new VP's to the EC council. The year after that another 3 VP's and the ability to elect a president from the choice of those who are VP's (remember...can't be anybody since the hurdles are in place to prevent that).

So let's find the 3 individuals who are willing to step up to the plate for this next election and get their names in the hat and let members know what they stand for.

Any tax attorneys in the house? Please contact RCadmin RE: AMA 2001 Financials...
 

What qualifications are needed to take on such a task?

Any tax attorneys in the house? Please contact RCadmin RE: AMA 2001 Financials...
 

To run for the VP you must be a leader member (yet another roadblock..but this one is at least smaller than the one put in place for becoming president).

JR - can you explain what is involved in becoming a leader member (LM) so you can become eligible for the VP ballot?

Any tax attorneys in the house? Please contact RCadmin RE: AMA 2001 Financials...
 

I totally agree with RCAdmin about getting the leadership of the AMA changed, but it's been stated here before that it is gonna take years. And we should start working on it too.

But I also think that a letter/email writing campain might just make the current leadership wake up (maybe, maybe not). If anybody has the complete list of email address and mailing address for the AMA leadership they could post it here. I know that the current EC and leadership seems to be able to ignore one or two mails/emails from one person, but I would hope that they would pay attention to thousands of them coming in.

Does anybody have these addresses to post here??? I know I would be the first to start sending mails out.