You Can Win First Place at a Warbird Rally With An ARF? Really?
#251
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RE: You Can Win First Place at a Warbird Rally With An ARF? Really?
Seems like everyone is leaning toward an ARF is OK opinion now. Which was the point I was trying to make in the first place. All aspects of this hobby should be taken into consideration and not looked down upon if they are not from a kit or scratch built. Simple. I will not "keep quiet" and I will speak up for my rights to fly ARF's. I did not mean to offend anyone in the beginning, I was trying to lighten the mood. Probably shouldn't have used the term "stiffnecks" but I get a little aggravated also when someone judges me and others by what we choose to fly. Different strokes for different folks. That is part of what makes this country what it is.
#252
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RE: [Deleted]
Let's keep all people with different opinions quiet? .............
ORIGINAL: yard-dart
Anyway, it really ticks me off when we get people with attitudes on these forums. If they don't agree with you, out comes the grudge talk.
From now on, I'll be one of the first to report early smack-talk. That's one way to keep them quiet.
Anyway, it really ticks me off when we get people with attitudes on these forums. If they don't agree with you, out comes the grudge talk.
From now on, I'll be one of the first to report early smack-talk. That's one way to keep them quiet.
#253
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RE: You Can Win First Place at a Warbird Rally With An ARF? Really?
I think it comes down to the Old school doesn't like Change,, neither does the new school,, No one likes change. So as the hobby has changed many don't like it.
I know I took about 5-6 years off flying, go into dirt bikes and r/c cars/trucks,,, when I got back in last year the whole r/c environment had altered. ARFs that at one time were looked down on now are the standard. I bring a built plane to the field and it's Q-"What ARF is that?" A- "I built it from a Kit" (pause in disbelief) "A kit??" Cracks me up. Things are just different, not better or worse,, just different.. But some, like me are slow to change. Should have seen the look in there eyes when I told people my Kingfisher was scratch built from 3-views. Q-What's a 3-view?" (I pause in disbelief, then explain) Somethings it makes you shake you head
I think Scale contests in order to continue to attract enough participants will have to allow ARFs,, I think you'll have 3 classes, Kit/Scratch built, ARF (stock), ARF (modified) When 90% are building ARFS what else can you do?
p.s.
I have currently 3 ARFs in my basement, a dozen over the years,, so I go both ways
I know I took about 5-6 years off flying, go into dirt bikes and r/c cars/trucks,,, when I got back in last year the whole r/c environment had altered. ARFs that at one time were looked down on now are the standard. I bring a built plane to the field and it's Q-"What ARF is that?" A- "I built it from a Kit" (pause in disbelief) "A kit??" Cracks me up. Things are just different, not better or worse,, just different.. But some, like me are slow to change. Should have seen the look in there eyes when I told people my Kingfisher was scratch built from 3-views. Q-What's a 3-view?" (I pause in disbelief, then explain) Somethings it makes you shake you head
I think Scale contests in order to continue to attract enough participants will have to allow ARFs,, I think you'll have 3 classes, Kit/Scratch built, ARF (stock), ARF (modified) When 90% are building ARFS what else can you do?
p.s.
I have currently 3 ARFs in my basement, a dozen over the years,, so I go both ways
#254
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RE: [Deleted]
Here we go again. Let me just say, differing opinions should not, and I hope will never be looked down on, personal attacks will. Also, berating people is not a good way to lighten the mood. All I'm going to say about that.
Most guys posting here probably have an ARF or two or more. I sure do (just took inventory and I have 12, if I count the 3 helis. Only flew 5 of them last year. I need to have a sale). They are not an evil thing. I enjoy most of mine for what they are. However, again, from a scale perspective, even the best of them look pretty sad, and especially in the case of war birds, when compared to a hand built and detailed scale war bird (my extremely modified P-38 is respectable, but certainly not Scale Masters or Top Gun caliber). Those Chinese companies don't seem to have a clue, much of the time, when it comes to markings, weathering, pilots (OMG the things they throw in the cockpit to pose as pilots, not to mention the cockpits), painted panel lines with simulated rivets that look more like buttons, shinny plastic covering with kill markings on the sides, and many other scale details. How many WWII ARFs do you see at the field with USAF emblazoned on their wings? Now, this is all very well and good at the field on Sunday, just for fun, or even at fly-ins for fun, but not serious competition. Unless, again, it is with other ARFs. In the latter case, one would have to think that scale flying would carry more weight than static scores anyway.
Most guys posting here probably have an ARF or two or more. I sure do (just took inventory and I have 12, if I count the 3 helis. Only flew 5 of them last year. I need to have a sale). They are not an evil thing. I enjoy most of mine for what they are. However, again, from a scale perspective, even the best of them look pretty sad, and especially in the case of war birds, when compared to a hand built and detailed scale war bird (my extremely modified P-38 is respectable, but certainly not Scale Masters or Top Gun caliber). Those Chinese companies don't seem to have a clue, much of the time, when it comes to markings, weathering, pilots (OMG the things they throw in the cockpit to pose as pilots, not to mention the cockpits), painted panel lines with simulated rivets that look more like buttons, shinny plastic covering with kill markings on the sides, and many other scale details. How many WWII ARFs do you see at the field with USAF emblazoned on their wings? Now, this is all very well and good at the field on Sunday, just for fun, or even at fly-ins for fun, but not serious competition. Unless, again, it is with other ARFs. In the latter case, one would have to think that scale flying would carry more weight than static scores anyway.
#255
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RE: You Can Win First Place at a Warbird Rally With An ARF? Really?
ORIGINAL: opwan
Seems like everyone is leaning toward an ARF is OK opinion now. Which was the point I was trying to make in the first place. All aspects of this hobby should be taken into consideration and not looked down upon if they are not from a kit or scratch built. Simple. I will not ''keep quiet'' and I will speak up for my rights to fly ARF's. I did not mean to offend anyone in the beginning, I was trying to lighten the mood. Probably shouldn't have used the term ''stiffnecks'' but I get a little aggravated also when someone judges me and others by what we choose to fly. Different strokes for different folks. That is part of what makes this country what it is.
Seems like everyone is leaning toward an ARF is OK opinion now. Which was the point I was trying to make in the first place. All aspects of this hobby should be taken into consideration and not looked down upon if they are not from a kit or scratch built. Simple. I will not ''keep quiet'' and I will speak up for my rights to fly ARF's. I did not mean to offend anyone in the beginning, I was trying to lighten the mood. Probably shouldn't have used the term ''stiffnecks'' but I get a little aggravated also when someone judges me and others by what we choose to fly. Different strokes for different folks. That is part of what makes this country what it is.
Getting back to the ARF vs. Kit subject, there's no question that ARF's should (and I feel that they will) have a place in "judged" events, whether it be straight out of the box or bashed to all get-out. Let's not confuse "judged" events with fun fly's/fly-in's. In my honest opinion, the public should never be able to vote. I, for one, have never been to any sort of event where that happens. I've only been to events where "registered pilots only" vote for their favorite plane, and this is generally the "pilot's choice award". Also, if a plane never flies during an event, it shouldn't be eligable for any award.
#256
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RE: You Can Win First Place at a Warbird Rally With An ARF? Really?
"In my honest opinion, the public should never be able to vote. I, for one, have never been to any sort of event where that happens. I've only been to events where "registered pilots only" vote for their favorite plane, and this is generally the "pilot's choice award". Also, if a plane never flies during an event, it shouldn't be eligable for any award. "
As I think about it, this makes good sense. The "pilot's choice award". Praise that come from our peers means a lot. Who knows better what goes into our projects.
As I think about it, this makes good sense. The "pilot's choice award". Praise that come from our peers means a lot. Who knows better what goes into our projects.
#257
RE: [Deleted]
Ram-
I do agree with a much of what you are saying. I do think we need to leave room for the answer to your original question to be yes, when the judges are the spectators at an air show. After all they know not what they judge for the most part!
I do agree with a much of what you are saying. I do think we need to leave room for the answer to your original question to be yes, when the judges are the spectators at an air show. After all they know not what they judge for the most part!
#258
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RE: You Can Win First Place at a Warbird Rally With An ARF? Really?
ORIGINAL: yard-dart
In my honest opinion, the public should never be able to vote. I, for one, have never been to any sort of event where that happens
In my honest opinion, the public should never be able to vote. I, for one, have never been to any sort of event where that happens
#260
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RE: You Can Win First Place at a Warbird Rally With An ARF? Really?
ORIGINAL: ram3500-RCU''
As I think about it, this makes good sense. The ''pilot's choice award''. Praise that come from our peers means a lot. Who knows better what goes into our projects.
As I think about it, this makes good sense. The ''pilot's choice award''. Praise that come from our peers means a lot. Who knows better what goes into our projects.
at out Warbird event next year we'll have a Pilot choice award,
Pilots only voting,, you can't vote for yourself,
winner gets a Nitro Planes P-38 modification kit, and a bottle of glue
#261
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RE: You Can Win First Place at a Warbird Rally With An ARF? Really?
ORIGINAL: scale only 4 me
I got an idea,
at out Warbird event next year we'll have a Pilot choice award,
Pilots only voting,, you can't vote for yourself,
winner gets a Nitro Planes P-38 modification kit, and a bottle of glue
ORIGINAL: ram3500-RCU''
As I think about it, this makes good sense. The ''pilot's choice award''. Praise that come from our peers means a lot. Who knows better what goes into our projects.
As I think about it, this makes good sense. The ''pilot's choice award''. Praise that come from our peers means a lot. Who knows better what goes into our projects.
at out Warbird event next year we'll have a Pilot choice award,
Pilots only voting,, you can't vote for yourself,
winner gets a Nitro Planes P-38 modification kit, and a bottle of glue
#264
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RE: You Can Win First Place at a Warbird Rally With An ARF? Really?
That's great you fly ARF's , then why were you attacking me for standing up for them?? And yes they're were remarks made about flying flat foam by several here including you. Yes several statements were made about not being in the "static" judging. I have seen some pretty amazing modified ARF's that rival scratch built planes. Nobody I fly with knocks anyones planes, we've got Super Cubs with overstreched wing struts, A Radian sailplane with a 2 in stainless bolt for ballast in the nose. Everyone gets along nobodies whining or moaning we just have fun! That's the way it should be. I understand some guys sweat it if the panel lines just aren't right or the rivits are too big, wheatherings a little off, that's fine just not my bag, but more power to the people.
ORIGINAL: yard-dart
First off, nowhere in this entire ten-page thread has anyone ever made a statement to any person that ARF's aren't OK to own, fly, or even enter into any sort of contest/event/fly-in. "YOU" came up with that assumption from, well, only God knows where. Secondly, I own, and enjoy flying ARF's. Since I began in this hobby back in 2001, I've owned approximately 30, or so, different ones. Probably only one or two I couldn't have cared less about ever flying again. In fact, I've got six ARF's in my trailer as we speak, one of them being a Corsair. With that being said, I do own and fly one kit warbird, and I'm in the process of building another and will probably never enter it into a scale "contest". So, speaking for myself, I never made any mention of ARF's of any kind not being cool to fly. It sounds to me that the only people knocking the type of airplanes you fly are the people you fly with, which sorta seems hard for me to believe.
Getting back to the ARF vs. Kit subject, there's no question that ARF's should (and I feel that they will) have a place in "judged" events, whether it be straight out of the box or bashed to all get-out. Let's not confuse "judged" events with fun fly's/fly-in's. In my honest opinion, the public should never be able to vote. I, for one, have never been to any sort of event where that happens. I've only been to events where "registered pilots only" vote for their favorite plane, and this is generally the "pilot's choice award". Also, if a plane never flies during an event, it shouldn't be eligable for any award.
ORIGINAL: opwan
Seems like everyone is leaning toward an ARF is OK opinion now. Which was the point I was trying to make in the first place. All aspects of this hobby should be taken into consideration and not looked down upon if they are not from a kit or scratch built. Simple. I will not ''keep quiet'' and I will speak up for my rights to fly ARF's. I did not mean to offend anyone in the beginning, I was trying to lighten the mood. Probably shouldn't have used the term ''stiffnecks'' but I get a little aggravated also when someone judges me and others by what we choose to fly. Different strokes for different folks. That is part of what makes this country what it is.
Seems like everyone is leaning toward an ARF is OK opinion now. Which was the point I was trying to make in the first place. All aspects of this hobby should be taken into consideration and not looked down upon if they are not from a kit or scratch built. Simple. I will not ''keep quiet'' and I will speak up for my rights to fly ARF's. I did not mean to offend anyone in the beginning, I was trying to lighten the mood. Probably shouldn't have used the term ''stiffnecks'' but I get a little aggravated also when someone judges me and others by what we choose to fly. Different strokes for different folks. That is part of what makes this country what it is.
Getting back to the ARF vs. Kit subject, there's no question that ARF's should (and I feel that they will) have a place in "judged" events, whether it be straight out of the box or bashed to all get-out. Let's not confuse "judged" events with fun fly's/fly-in's. In my honest opinion, the public should never be able to vote. I, for one, have never been to any sort of event where that happens. I've only been to events where "registered pilots only" vote for their favorite plane, and this is generally the "pilot's choice award". Also, if a plane never flies during an event, it shouldn't be eligable for any award.
#265
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RE: You Can Win First Place at a Warbird Rally With An ARF? Really?
I'm sorry, I have no reply to what you're talking about here, yes some posts were against ARF's in contest for static judging I do believe. Why in the world you think the only people knocking the planes I fly are the very ones I fly with???/ They're flying the same stuff and worse. What's your point and I will try to intelligently and respectfully respond to it with sencerity.
ORIGINAL: yard-dart
First off, nowhere in this entire ten-page thread has anyone ever made a statement to any person that ARF's aren't OK to own, fly, or even enter into any sort of contest/event/fly-in. "YOU" came up with that assumption from, well, only God knows where. Secondly, I own, and enjoy flying ARF's. Since I began in this hobby back in 2001, I've owned approximately 30, or so, different ones. Probably only one or two I couldn't have cared less about ever flying again. In fact, I've got six ARF's in my trailer as we speak, one of them being a Corsair. With that being said, I do own and fly one kit warbird, and I'm in the process of building another and will probably never enter it into a scale "contest". So, speaking for myself, I never made any mention of ARF's of any kind not being cool to fly. It sounds to me that the only people knocking the type of airplanes you fly are the people you fly with, which sorta seems hard for me to believe.
Getting back to the ARF vs. Kit subject, there's no question that ARF's should (and I feel that they will) have a place in "judged" events, whether it be straight out of the box or bashed to all get-out. Let's not confuse "judged" events with fun fly's/fly-in's. In my honest opinion, the public should never be able to vote. I, for one, have never been to any sort of event where that happens. I've only been to events where "registered pilots only" vote for their favorite plane, and this is generally the "pilot's choice award". Also, if a plane never flies during an event, it shouldn't be eligable for any award.
ORIGINAL: opwan
Seems like everyone is leaning toward an ARF is OK opinion now. Which was the point I was trying to make in the first place. All aspects of this hobby should be taken into consideration and not looked down upon if they are not from a kit or scratch built. Simple. I will not ''keep quiet'' and I will speak up for my rights to fly ARF's. I did not mean to offend anyone in the beginning, I was trying to lighten the mood. Probably shouldn't have used the term ''stiffnecks'' but I get a little aggravated also when someone judges me and others by what we choose to fly. Different strokes for different folks. That is part of what makes this country what it is.
Seems like everyone is leaning toward an ARF is OK opinion now. Which was the point I was trying to make in the first place. All aspects of this hobby should be taken into consideration and not looked down upon if they are not from a kit or scratch built. Simple. I will not ''keep quiet'' and I will speak up for my rights to fly ARF's. I did not mean to offend anyone in the beginning, I was trying to lighten the mood. Probably shouldn't have used the term ''stiffnecks'' but I get a little aggravated also when someone judges me and others by what we choose to fly. Different strokes for different folks. That is part of what makes this country what it is.
Getting back to the ARF vs. Kit subject, there's no question that ARF's should (and I feel that they will) have a place in "judged" events, whether it be straight out of the box or bashed to all get-out. Let's not confuse "judged" events with fun fly's/fly-in's. In my honest opinion, the public should never be able to vote. I, for one, have never been to any sort of event where that happens. I've only been to events where "registered pilots only" vote for their favorite plane, and this is generally the "pilot's choice award". Also, if a plane never flies during an event, it shouldn't be eligable for any award.
#266
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RE: You Can Win First Place at a Warbird Rally With An ARF? Really?
opwan, you just don't seem to be able to converse without confrontation. I never "attacked" you for "defending" ARFs. You were "counseled" for your personal attacks. Apparently, you don't take constructive criticism well. You would be doing yourself a favor by working on that, and not being so defensive. Apologies will usually get a better result than excuses.
This thread has made no attacks on ARFs in general. My reference to flat foamies was not derogatory. They are just not my thing. Go back and read it again. Most of us are of the opinion that ARFs are here to stay, and they may even have a place in competition, given there numbers. Pitting the average mass produced ARF against genuine scale hand made creations and then "judging" them higher is what is hard to accept, as a competitor. Again, this could only happen if judging allowed it. Not the fault of the ARF owner.
From your comments, I surmise that scale, clubs, competition, and possibly the AMA and IMAC, are not your cup of tea.
This thread has made no attacks on ARFs in general. My reference to flat foamies was not derogatory. They are just not my thing. Go back and read it again. Most of us are of the opinion that ARFs are here to stay, and they may even have a place in competition, given there numbers. Pitting the average mass produced ARF against genuine scale hand made creations and then "judging" them higher is what is hard to accept, as a competitor. Again, this could only happen if judging allowed it. Not the fault of the ARF owner.
From your comments, I surmise that scale, clubs, competition, and possibly the AMA and IMAC, are not your cup of tea.
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RE: [Deleted]
Yes, I agree, when members are called 'MENTAL CASES" it's time to do something. That was a direct insult to me for voicing my opinon, because he couldn't understand what I was trying to convey. He got confused and took it the wrong way and that's when it started. I made some comments about certain groups of flyers jokingly but never attacked anyone personaly until someone started in. I appoligize if I've offended anyone, it wasn't intentional, well maybe one remark was..
ORIGINAL: daveopam
Gentlemen, I have deleted and edited many post in this thread. As time permits I may do many more. Not all of you got a personal notification of what was done to your post. For this I am sorry but the shear volume of editing and constraints on my time did not allow it.
On to the business at hand. There is no place for personal attacks on RCU. These will be deleted as soon as they are discovered. This is why I ask you all to report a problem post ASAP. This is the proper way to deal with a problem. Posting a quote of a problem and complaining does nothing. On the bottom of every post is a report button. Please use it. As mods we have no way of reviewing every post. We count on the membership to help us by pointing these things out.
Thank you for your time and please keep personal feeling about other members to yourself.
David
Gentlemen, I have deleted and edited many post in this thread. As time permits I may do many more. Not all of you got a personal notification of what was done to your post. For this I am sorry but the shear volume of editing and constraints on my time did not allow it.
On to the business at hand. There is no place for personal attacks on RCU. These will be deleted as soon as they are discovered. This is why I ask you all to report a problem post ASAP. This is the proper way to deal with a problem. Posting a quote of a problem and complaining does nothing. On the bottom of every post is a report button. Please use it. As mods we have no way of reviewing every post. We count on the membership to help us by pointing these things out.
Thank you for your time and please keep personal feeling about other members to yourself.
David
#268
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RE: You Can Win First Place at a Warbird Rally With An ARF? Really?
You didn't say that the flat foamie more matches my tallents??? I'm still here because I have an interest in ARF politics just like you want to protect your warbirds also, fair enough?
ORIGINAL: ram3500-RCU
opwan, you just don't seem to be able to converse without confrontation. I never "attacked" you for "defending" ARFs. You were "counseled" for your personal attacks. Apparently, you don't take constructive criticism well. You would be doing yourself a favor by working on that, and not being so defensive. Apologies will usually get a better result than excuses.
This thread has made no attacks on ARFs in general. My reference to flat foamies was not derogatory. They are just not my thing. Go back and read it again. Most of us are of the opinion that ARFs are here to stay, and they may even have a place in competition, given there numbers. Pitting the average mass produced ARF against genuine scale hand made creations and then "judging" them higher is what is hard to accept, as a competitor. Again, this could only happen if judging allowed it. Not the fault of the ARF owner.
From your comments, I surmise that scale, clubs, competition, and possibly the AMA and IMAC, are not your cup of tea. Why are you still here?
opwan, you just don't seem to be able to converse without confrontation. I never "attacked" you for "defending" ARFs. You were "counseled" for your personal attacks. Apparently, you don't take constructive criticism well. You would be doing yourself a favor by working on that, and not being so defensive. Apologies will usually get a better result than excuses.
This thread has made no attacks on ARFs in general. My reference to flat foamies was not derogatory. They are just not my thing. Go back and read it again. Most of us are of the opinion that ARFs are here to stay, and they may even have a place in competition, given there numbers. Pitting the average mass produced ARF against genuine scale hand made creations and then "judging" them higher is what is hard to accept, as a competitor. Again, this could only happen if judging allowed it. Not the fault of the ARF owner.
From your comments, I surmise that scale, clubs, competition, and possibly the AMA and IMAC, are not your cup of tea. Why are you still here?
#271
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RE: [Deleted]
And who would he be apologizing to here? It is surely not me, it is to the moderator. The only thing refered to me is my "attitude" and that's one way to keep em quiet!!!!!!!!! Dang I feel so much better now. I have issued a ticket on him for the insults he made to me.
ORIGINAL: yard-dart
I want to apologize for my post, which was one you deleted. I was mad as all get out when I wrote it, and tried to keep it as clean as possible, while still getting my point across. In all reallity, I didn't think it was all that bad, but since you're the moderator, you obviously thought differently. Anyway, it really ticks me off when we get people with attitudes on these forums. If they don't agree with you, out comes the grudge talk.
From now on, I'll be one of the first to report early smack-talk. That's one way to keep them quiet.
I want to apologize for my post, which was one you deleted. I was mad as all get out when I wrote it, and tried to keep it as clean as possible, while still getting my point across. In all reallity, I didn't think it was all that bad, but since you're the moderator, you obviously thought differently. Anyway, it really ticks me off when we get people with attitudes on these forums. If they don't agree with you, out comes the grudge talk.
From now on, I'll be one of the first to report early smack-talk. That's one way to keep them quiet.
#273
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RE: [Deleted]
AMEN BROTHER! WHAT I"VE BEEN SAYING ALL ALONG! P-40 is SWEEEET!
ORIGINAL: LDM
ARfs are what you make of them , this is two simple foamys and an eflight Texan that i am converting to a Dauntless .
You can have fun (outside of contest ) by just enjoying the hobby at any level
ARfs are what you make of them , this is two simple foamys and an eflight Texan that i am converting to a Dauntless .
You can have fun (outside of contest ) by just enjoying the hobby at any level