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Black Horse Models Pitts 1/4 Scale

Old 04-23-2011, 08:10 AM
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Default Black Horse Models Pitts 1/4 Scale



I took advantage of a Hobby People sale this past winter and purchased a 1/4 scale Pitts arf by Black Horse Models. These planes are well covered and the construction apears to be above average. I rarely build arfs but this one caught my attention and being a full scale pilot my aviation heart as well. After a few months of this plane setting on my workbench ready to assemble while I considered the power plant I wanted to use, I have come to a decission. The DLE 30cc will be the one. I have a set of giant scale plans for a Nosen 310 and two DLE 30cc motors will be needed. This seemed to make the choice for the Pitts just a bit easier!

Here are some pictures of the installation of the DLE in this Pitts. I am going to look at a Pitts syle after market muffler as well. Maybe I will not have to cut out large holes inthe fiberglass cowl that comes with this kit. The firewall and surrounding structure will need some work as well, I just wanted to share the process here so that others considering the same project and or power plant could see how I am going about this. Maybe someone could improve this after looking at this conversion.

Also a picture of my landing gear and wheel pant construction. The kit method is poor at best. I have secured the pants on both sides of the axle with wheel collars and on the outer ones I have soldered a small piece of brass to accept sheet metal screws. Not high tech but secure.

More later.

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Old 04-23-2011, 10:25 AM
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Default RE: Black Horse Models Pitts 1/4 Scale

Subscribedddd.......
Old 04-23-2011, 10:50 AM
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Default RE: Black Horse Models Pitts 1/4 Scale

I have 1 too.

My flying skills will problly not be there this year.

I like your wheel pants setup!

Jimnmy
Old 04-23-2011, 02:26 PM
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Default RE: Black Horse Models Pitts 1/4 Scale

You will love how it flys
Old 04-23-2011, 02:40 PM
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Default RE: Black Horse Models Pitts 1/4 Scale

How does this model compare to the now discontinued Cermark Pitts S2B 60" span weighing in at about 10-11 pounds??
Old 04-23-2011, 04:19 PM
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Default RE: Black Horse Models Pitts 1/4 Scale

I can not answer that question. Size sounds about the same though. I am working on the throttle set up and it looks like the servo tray needs some work. It is a very fragile set up.
Old 04-28-2011, 01:46 PM
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Default RE: Black Horse Models Pitts 1/4 Scale

I have been slowly working on the Pitts and it seems like a simple engine change can take up a lot of time. Of major concern to me is mounting the motor as securly as possible while keeping the structure light and simple. Looks like I have settled upon a mounting method. I have added triangel support toall of the joints on the firewall and mounting box. The bottom of this box is still open and will be so until I get the plane built and a trial weight and ballance is completed. After that the bottom of the box will be 1/8" plywood reinforced with triangle stock and epoxied in place. The choke will be activated by a pull rod through the nose cone oppening. The throttle took a little time to figure out but looks like a workable solution has been found.

Getting ready to order a Bison Pitts Wrap Around Muffler and a polished aluminum spinner. Looks like a 12 oz tank with gas stopper will provide enough fuel capacity. Radio receiver will be a Spectrum and servos Hitec HS645MG. I am in a bit of a trap with the elevator and rudder control rods. The outer housing are already installed and the inner steel control rods are closer to 2/56. I would rather use 4/40. Fortunatly the elevaor is split and two control rods go to them.

On to adding the tail feathers and then the wing assemblies. Pictures will follow!
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Old 04-28-2011, 02:22 PM
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Default RE: Black Horse Models Pitts 1/4 Scale

A 1/4 scale Pitts is not a very large plane, and a DLE 30 is a lot of engine. It should be exciting!


Old 05-01-2011, 01:37 AM
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Default RE: Black Horse Models Pitts 1/4 Scale

I bought one of these also and am installing a Scorpion 4035-250 motor with 10s setup. I am disappointed with some aspects of the quality, like the painting of the cabane struts and uc looks like red oxide primer and certainly no attempt has been made to match the covering colour. It's not even gloss. The pilot is too small, looks silly and will need to be changed, which means pulling off the canopy. The rudder and elevator profiles do not match those of the tail (stabilizer) and fin, so I will have to reshape and recover. And the finish of the cowling is poor - it looks like they painted it in the dustiest room they could find and the guy who stuck the stripes on wasn't wearing his glasses.
Why did I buy it then? Well, as you can only get this stuff mail order these days, you don't get a chance to inspect before you buy. The decision was based on the quality of previous BH models i had bought. (And I got over excited when I saw the advert.)
Is mine unusually bad, or are they all like this?
Old 05-01-2011, 03:06 AM
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Default RE: Black Horse Models Pitts 1/4 Scale

With the exception of the paint and stripes on the cowl sounds like my plane as well. I paid a little over $225 (US) at the hobby shop on sale so I did not expect to much for this amount of money. I do not do very many ARF'S so I assumed the quality to be about average, maybe along the lines of a Nitro Planes.
In addition I have found the fiberglass to be very thin, the wheel pants mounting to be a joke, the servo mounting tray to be way to flimsy and the landing gear paint and skirt mounts to be questionable. The hardware package is not usable for my set up with the exception of the wheels. The motor mounting box seems a bit fragile even for the .90-1.2 sized motors. Might be a bit easier for you with the electric conversion. Construction looks goo but it does remind me why I do not purchase many ARF'S. The covering job is nicely done on my plane. Given the price and size of the plane I would probably been happier scratch building a 1/3 scale, but I would purchase again for the price. I am finished with ARF'S for a while though.
This plane and motor choice many might question, but as stated above one of my projects in the future is a plans built Nosen 310 Twin using two DLE 30cc's.The 310 is in the mix somewhere between a 40% Gee Bee Model Z and finishing up my 30% Knight Twister. Squeezed in there somewhere might be a giant scale Gee Bee R model for someone else. That just might fund one for me! Ahhh the schedule is grueling at best!!!!
I am going slow here and just enjoying the build, not having an agenda on the maiden flight date. Feel free to post yours in with this if you like. Could be interesting to see the electric conversion and how it compares to the (on the large side) gas motor that I am installing.
JEB
Old 05-01-2011, 04:44 AM
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Default RE: Black Horse Models Pitts 1/4 Scale

I too have been looking at this plane before I bought my MX2.
I had been thinking more along the lines of a DLE 20 mainly because of the weight.
But this should be interesting
I'd change that ez connector you have on the throttle.
Old 05-01-2011, 08:42 AM
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Default RE: Black Horse Models Pitts 1/4 Scale

Yes I should have mentioned that the ez connector is just a place holder to get things lined up. The throttle will get a ball end connector on the servo end. I to would have chosen the DLE20 but as I mentioned the Nosen 310 will be in the works so two of the 30cc will be needed for that. Hope I do not regret using the 30 on this Pitts. Thanks for the recommend on the ez connector, I could not agree more.
Old 05-01-2011, 08:52 AM
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Default RE: Black Horse Models Pitts 1/4 Scale

I have made a decision on the battery pac for this plane as well. I will use an A123 2100 mAH 6.6 volt with a IBEC for the ignition. This is the one I like, anyone using this one? http://www.syssaaircraft.net/cart/pc...5&idcategory=2 This should save as much as 4 ounces of weight over using separate battery pacs for ign and rec.


[img]webkit-fake-url://7ED5A000-3B3B-4E00-B58C-DD60F5ADB6A8/unknown.jpg[/img]


I am shopping for a spinner as the kit one is just will not work in my opinion. Hate to use aluminum because of the expense and weight (over 2 oz) but may have to
Old 05-03-2011, 03:05 AM
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Default RE: Black Horse Models Pitts 1/4 Scale

Spent all last evening working on mounting the lower wings to the fuse. The aluminum wing tube was a terrible fit and just would not go into the wing tubes. The wing tubes are cardboard on my plane and the aluminum tubes are coated. I started by trying to polish down the aluminum tubes to make the fit into the wings. This just did not work to well as I needed to remove about .005 of an inch. So I made a sanding stick to clamp into my hand held drill and insert into the wing tubes much like a reamer into a hole. After much sanding, yelling and screaming the tubes then fit into the wings. What a job to get this done, I think the screaming really helped!
With what I thought to be the worst part of the lower wing mounting behind me I fit wings and tubes to the fuse. The wings would not slide past the root fillets into the fuse recess.[:@]After some work with the trusty Dremel, a sanding block, some balsa, a bit of micro filled epoxy and the lower wings fit! Oh Boy! This time no yelling or screaming and I felt better, the plane did not seem to care but the wife did. She said because of all the noise coming from the airplane factory she could not concentrate on dinner so insisted we dine out. End of construction for tonight. I am getting to be one of the old guys, but I still enjoy a date with the wife.
The first picture is of the tube sanding rod I made from a piece of dowel rod cut in the center of the end with a band saw and then sandpaper wedged in the groove. Second picture is of the finished product and the wing root rib fitting well into the root fillets. The third picture is of the area and the start of the grinding process. Not a big deal, just aggravating.
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Old 05-03-2011, 08:07 AM
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Default RE: Black Horse Models Pitts 1/4 Scale

How about some input on servos used from those that are already flying this plane. Each aileron has its own servo so I am thinking standards should work. I have a ton of HS425BB. I would rather use digitals but I hate to buy 4 more of those for this project. 6.6 volt A123 receiver pac. Thoughts?


Control System:
+Pulse Width Control 1500usec Neutral
Required Pulse:3-5 Volt Peak to Peak Square Wave
Operating Voltage:4.8-6.0 Volts
Operating Temperature Range:-20 to +60 Degree C
Operating Speed (4.8V):0.21sec/60° at no load
Operating Speed (6.0V):0.16sec/60° at no load
Stall Torque (4.8V):45.82 oz/in. (3.3kg.cm)
Stall Torque (6.0V):56.93 oz/in. (4.1kg.cm)
Operating Angle:45 Deg. one side pulse traveling 400usec
360 Modifiable:Yes
Direction:Clockwise/Pulse Traveling 1500 to 1900usec
Current Drain (4.8V):8mA/idle and 150mA no load operating
Current Drain (6.0V):8.8mA/idle and 180mA no load operating
Dead Band Width:8usec
Motor Type:3 Pole Ferrite
Potentiometer Drive:Indirect Drive
Bearing Type:Dual Ball Bearing
Gear Type:Nylon
Connector Wire Length:11.81" (300mm)
Dimensions:See Schematics
Weight:1.6oz (45.5g)

Old 05-05-2011, 02:40 AM
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Default RE: Black Horse Models Pitts 1/4 Scale

After searching through my servo stock I now remember selling off most of my HS425BB servos. So I will use the HS485BB Karbonite Gear Hitec servos for the ailerons and two HS625MG for the elevator and rudder, throttle will get just a standard servo.


SPECS: Size: 1.57 x 0.78 x 1.49" (40 x 20 x 38mm)
Weight: 1.59oz (45g)
4.8V 6.0V Speed: 0.22 sec 0.18 sec
Torque: 66.6 oz-in (4.8 kg-cm) 83.3 oz-in (6.0 kg-cm)
Drivetrain Type: Top ball bearing
Old 05-05-2011, 05:33 AM
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Default RE: Black Horse Models Pitts 1/4 Scale

I would be wary of using Karbonite gear servos with a gas engine plane. A lot of information has been posted on this.
Old 05-05-2011, 08:18 AM
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Default RE: Black Horse Models Pitts 1/4 Scale

BPS....it looks like you were using a standard nut on the backside of the standoff mount bolts. I always use the nylon insert locknuts and also add a lock washer along with threadlock to the bolts-I deff don't want any of those to loosen which, if there is a way, they will due to all the extra vibration a single gas engine will provide.




I would deff. not use Karbonite gears in a gasser either-to much likelyhood of them shearing/stripping.
Old 05-05-2011, 09:09 AM
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Default RE: Black Horse Models Pitts 1/4 Scale

Those nuts were for temporary mounting so that the motor could be removed easily for the rest of the construction. I have nylocks for the permanent mounting. Thanks for the advice. I will also revisit the Karbonite gear issue as well. Thanks for letting me know, I was not aware of that issue. Anyone have a suggestion for the aileron servos? This plane has one for each aileron.

Thanks
Old 05-05-2011, 12:19 PM
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Default RE: Black Horse Models Pitts 1/4 Scale


ORIGINAL: flygilmore
I would deff. not use Karbonite gears in a gasser either-to much likelyhood of them shearing/stripping.
I would think the heavier duty Karbonite gear servos would be OK in these smaller gassers, especially on non 3D models that have smaller control surfaces. These engines run as smooth or smoother than similar sized glo engines .... smoother than most large 4 strokers. Just be sure not to get any LocTite even near these gears as this will cause failure of the output shafts. Of course, metal gears are always a good way to go.
Old 05-06-2011, 02:18 AM
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Default RE: Black Horse Models Pitts 1/4 Scale

Lots of issues to consider here. I just spoke with a flyer yesterday that uses Karbonite gear servos on all his gassers up to 50cc! The only problems he has experienced the last two years was a metal gear servo failure.

Anyway on this plane I am saving all of the weight I can. I will go with A123 2300mAh battery pac and IBEC switch. Metal gear Hitec on elevator and rudder. I just have to decide on the aileron servos.

Last night I was able to get the lower wings mounted, the top wing assembled and temporarily mounted. I will get some pics next. Thanks again for all of the advice and direction. I have ben in this hobby for as long as I can remember doing free flight with models my father and I built. On to more complex models and r/c. I have pictures of building with dad when I was 5, now 57! Point is we are never to old to learn and this is a great place to do just that. Thanks all.
Old 05-15-2011, 04:58 PM
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Default RE: Black Horse Models Pitts 1/4 Scale

I have not had much time to work on the Pitts lately, so with the rain and just returning from college graduation for the daughter I took the afternoon to work on the plane. With the wings mounted, landing gear bolted on and motor fit to the firewall for cowl mounting it looks like I have made some progress. The landing gear skirts are a bit of a challenge as is getting the cabains mounted to the top wing. I did not use any epoxy on the center section top wing ribs. The aluminum tube spar fit much better on into the top wing than it did on the bottom wing. The landing gear just bolted on per instructions and after trimming and fitting the landing gear skirts I used some Gorilla Glue to attach them to the landing gear wires.

I should note that most of the hardware included with the kit I have elected not to use. I switched to Great Planes Nyloc nuts and socket head cap screws with washers where needed. Looks like this plane will go to the flying field with the wings on, removing them just will take to much effort and wear out the Nyloc nuts quickly. The Pitts style muffer looks nice and almost fit within the cowling without modification. I had to cut the exhaust tubes and bend them back just a bit to clear the cowl opening. I still need to cut the opening for the spark plug and order an aluminum spinner. Next I need to make sure I have muffler clearance and finish off the firewall then seal that entire structure. Also one picture of the tailwheel mounting and control attach to the ruder using a piece of fuel tubing. More later.
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Old 05-15-2011, 10:53 PM
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Default RE: Black Horse Models Pitts 1/4 Scale

bps ,

it looks fantastic....

But tell me, what was the cause of the wings not fitting nice on there fuselage positions ?
Old 05-16-2011, 03:32 AM
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Default RE: Black Horse Models Pitts 1/4 Scale

The wing tube for the lower wing would not fit into the wings. Seemed as though the tube sleeves were not round, maybe distorted during wing construction. I then found the roots of the lower wings would not fit into the recess in the sides of the fuse. Some balsa from the fuse needed to be removed for the wings to fit into this area and then replaced creating a larger recess. I still have a lot to do to get this ready to fly.
Old 05-22-2011, 03:46 AM
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Default RE: Black Horse Models Pitts 1/4 Scale

I have been thinking about battery pacs for this plane. The A123 with an IBEC for ignition seemed like a good choice. I feel more comfortable being able to load test my battery and decide if it is safe to fly or not. Another modeler suggested this site http://www.batteriesamerica.com/newpage8.htm

I am thinking of using their Eneloop battery pac for this plane, the 2000mAh 6 volt and the IBEC for the ignition. The elemination of a battery pac should save about 5 ounces. Even with no radio, motor or anything but the arf assembled this plane is gaining weight fast. I will weigh the bare airframe before proceeding just to let everyone know. Just got the airframe weighed....7 pounds!


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