Condor060

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Hey guys, I have been away for a while but I have made some changes to the final setup and am ready to get this bird in the air.

Mistake #1. The new DLE 35 was run on 50 to 1 fuel. head temps were 270-290. The manual states 30 to 1 but not as break in mixture. It wants 30 to 1 all the time. I mixed the fuel and ran 5 tanks. Head temps are now 210 at WOT.

Mistake #2. I didn't give enough airspace around the jug for proper cooling. I have cut more area out to get proper airflow.

Mistake #3 This kit needed 1.5 lbs of nose weight mounted to the top of the engine standoffsto balance. This is after I moved the elevator servo and the batteries to the front of the aircraft.

Mistake #4 I tried the first flights on the 17 inch 4 blade. I have mounted an 18, 8 two blade for the next few flights to get the motor broke in before I try this again.I am getting 8400 RPM static with the two blade.

Mistake #5 I was running the custom exhaust before break in. I have installed the stock exhaust until the engine has a few more tanks through it.

As soon as we get out of the rain spell in NC I am off to the field for some flight video. I expect to see a pretty fast mustang with the 4 HP dle running at maximum ability. I wll post some pictures of the changes I made. I used a torque tube from a Chaos 600 helicopter to make the pushrod for the elevator. It is working great with no flex.

Be back in a couple of days.

Fred

ThunderBoat42

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Fred,
Huge KUDO's for this project. I really enjoyed the aeroworks project. I will have to re-read every word of this thread again as I just found it.
I was looking at this same aircraft this weekend and actually left a message at TBM to get more details you have answered in part here.

The cockpit was a question. Whay you have here is ideal and I appreciate the link.

Power: I was looking at the Mintor 38 with the Biela 19x8 - 4b. I really dont know much about the Mintor and seeking some feedback from those who have used them. The 17.3x8 looks good on this airframe. it seems, by specs to be close in weight yet more power avaiable. Your adding weight to the nose lessend the concern if it is a few grams heavier.

Gear: I was looking at the eletric from TBM. havent really explored the gear options and you have address some here.

We like details *grin*

I am very close to pulling the trigger on this and this thread has been a HUGE help in the decision process. Again Kudo's and thank you for sharing.
The other option I am looking at is the Top Flight 60-90 with YS power and the Biela 16x8 (4b)

ThunderBoat42

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Hearing crickets in this thread. I would like to hear more on the ESMP51. I have decided on power options and the engines came in finally to start testing on thrust with various props for which combo to use.

I have a YS 175CDI (seriously considering to put in this airframe) which in its own right will turn the19-8 at 8500 rpm +/-... Going to test a 18x10 and the 18x6-10 from zinger (all 4 blade). I also have a 1.75 belt reduction it will mount to that will give me aprox 5000 rpm to crank the pitch way up and increase efficiency (Ihope). The DLE55 is another I'm looking at since so much nose wieght it needed.

furtunately the reduction unit will accept 2 ys 1.70 or 1.75's side by side which I am going to test to see what it yeilds. just for fun. (not for the EMSmustang - wont fit.) thats a LOTof power!!!

Mr.Stang

Hi Fred

Wath u mean with "Be back ina couple of days"?

We all still waiting!!

Cheers Fred

ThunderBoat42

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They say "All planes have a date on them" (date of destruction) .... Lord knows I've even had one that was dated the day after I finished it. Maybe I should have grabbed the other box in the HS. I 'heard' .. only heard with no credible evidence... this one reached it's date. Unfortunate if so as the craftsmanship is awesome. but it can happen to the best...

There is a good probability this will be my next project. if so, mine will be powered with either a DLE55 or a YS175cdi. Havent decided yet.

coyote216

It is very sad to hear that, if it is true, but, I can say that it is a very beautiful plane

coyote216

And a recent one

cowboychris244

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I have just about finished up building this plane, and I too need to add 1.3 lbs. to the nose! The idea of that is killing me, to the point that I have hung the plane from the ceiling and moved on to other projects. I have the DLE 30 under the cowl, the ESM electric retracs (w/ stock foam wheels to save weight), and everything else is stock. How many others have run into this problem? If I had known this, I would have considered a 50cc engine, but financially I can't do this now. Will it even fly (well) with this added weight? I see others are using 26cc engines. How much weight did you have to add? Please advise.

coyote216

Condor060

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Hey Fellas, I didn’t know anyone was following this thread or I would have been a better steward of my post.Alas, this plane is a memory. Not due to aircraft failure but receiver brown out but I did get enough flights on it to at least give you guys some of my information.First off, I have now built and flown 3 ESM warbirds. The Mustang, 74 inch Corsair, and the 74 inch Dauntless and every one of them have the exact same problems. Tail heavy.After literally hundreds of hours working on these planes I finally figured out the reason for this. This manufacture (in my most humble opinion) doesn’t fly RC aircraft. I am not talking about Troy Built; I am talking about the factory.Every wing on these aircraft are located in the correct position to replicate its full scale companion. This is not a good thing for model aviation. The full scale aircraft had huge amounts of nose weight to contend with to include their availability of existing engines of their time.Most manufactures move the wing saddle back to accommodate this hence a 74 inch airplane should come in around 16 pounds. My Mustang came in around 20 and my Corsair is the same weight using an additional 1.8 pounds of lead in the nose.The Corsair has a DLE 55 and Troy Built new 3 blade adjustable pitch prop with the batteries located in the nose and still needs the 1.8 pounds of led. I only opted for the 55 size engine to swing a scale prop and counter some weight with power.The addition of a pull pull cable for an elevator just doesn’t seem to be a good idea to me so I have opted to locate my elevator servos in the rear of the plane. I have checked the weight offset and it’s about double that of the servo but well worth the insurance.I also don’t like the pull pull cables co-mingling with the wings aileron, flap, and retract cables so I move the rudder servo back under the wing bolt location.Now don’t get me wrong. I am not beating on ESM airplanes. I do like them and you have to admit that they have great finishes and well built airframes but these are not ARF’s by any stretch of the imagination.I have 188 hours in my Corsair to date. This is obviously by choice and not building the kit by its instructions (if you can really call them instructions) but with all that being said, I still like these aircraft.The Mustang did fly great after all and I really loved how easy it was to Flite Metal. The crash was a result of too many servos working off of a single power source to the receiver.I was turning on final dropping the flaps and gear. My Aurora 9 radio started giving me a low voltage alarm. The aircraft servos froze in the last position I had them in which was a slow turn until it hit the ground. Upon further inspection we found the last transmitted voltage to be 3.6 volts on a freshly charged 6 volt battery.I was able to replicate the failure. Moving the ailerons, elevator, flaps, and gear (which were electric) at the same time and get the very same failure over and over. The JR connector to the receiver I think is only good for around 3 amps and I was over.If you are going to run this many servos and electric gear you should either isolate the gear to a separate battery or use two power leads to the receiver.

Condor060

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Hey Fellas,

cowboychris244

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How did you go about adding that much weight. There isn't a whole lot of room under the cowl of the P-51. Do you have any pictures. Thanks for the help.

Condor060

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I don't have a picture but I used a piece of led I cut off of a dive weight. Once I got the proper weight I hammered it into a shape that would fit on top of the engine standoffs on top of the engine. I used foam tape to isolate the led from the metal, drilled holes in the led, and used heavy zip ties to mount it to the stand off.This way I was able to use a much smaller amount of weight than trying to locate it around the firewall.

Chad Veich

My Feedback: (60)

I am quite happy that there are a few manufacturers left who resist the urge to lengthen the nose, enlarge tail feathers, widen landing gear, etc. in order to make a scale model "fly better". (Fly easier might be a more accurate description.) Believe it or not there are a few scale purists out there like myself who would rather add a couple of pounds of nose weight than have an airplane that only resembles the prototype from a distance. There are plenty of sport scale ARFs out there to fill that niche. I think ESM is trying to corner a different market. There is a reason everybody likes the looks of the ESM warbirds better than most of those others. It is because they are more accurate! My .02 cents of course.

Condor060

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I do see your point and they are more accurate than most I have seen. Moving the wing saddle back 1/2 - 3/4 of an inch wouldn't be noticeable but the advantage of the lighter wing loading can save your investment. As we all know, wing loading is the loaded weight of the aircraft divided by the area of the wing. The faster an aircraft flies, the more lift is produced by each unit area of wing. Correspondingly, the landing and take-off speeds will be higher. The high wing loading also decreases maneuverability.With that being said, Scale is scale and if you want one of the best replicated warbirds out there, ESM is the ticket. Certainly can't complain about their ability to give you a good fuselage, wing and paint scheme.

oliveDrab

Yes - tail heavy. I have the 71 inch ESM Bearcat with an EFlite 160 running with 10s Lipos. With the Lipos and esc mounted on the front of the firewall the balance is almost perfect. Maidened it yesterday and it flew well. Plenty of power, smooth flying plane. The Sierra Giant retracts on the plane are rock-solid reliable.

ThunderBoat42

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Fred sorry to hear the rumor to be true. I have to admit .. I am setting up the radio in the same manner and will re-evaluate that. I was thinking about running a seperate battery to the gear anyway. You just confirmend that thought... so thank you. The plan now is 2 life 2100's to the receiver and one to the gear. The weight might as well be usable. The 55 engine is also making use of the wieght needed to trun a larger prop. (dont have to use it all.

Nice to see the TBM prop in place. It's a good looking unit at a great price as compared to the solo unit (which is in the budget for the Aeroworks).

I think we have solved the problems with the reduction drive units secondary vibration. there is a thread on here as to how. A little delayed with a 12cyl all alum engine rive for a 7/8th scale P51 but may send you the prototype to test with the DLE55 as compared to the DA 85 direct drive.

Again, hate to hear it's 'date' arrived so soon... although.. the data found may save some other planes of a similar set up. This is my first round with electic retracts. So far.. their the cats meow.

ThunderBoat42

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THANKS FOR SHARING.

Condor060

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The perfect fix I found for running 10 or more servos is to use a voltage regulator. I use the Dymond USA 20 amp with a single 3 cell lipo. It has two clean 6 volt power leads for the receiver. If you use 2 y harnesses to the receiver (one end for a servo and the other end for the power lead) you take that servo out of the equation for amp draw through the receiver.So now on a 10 servo setup you only have 8 servos drawing power through the receiver instead of 10 and enough power to eliminate the low power brown out problems.Had to crash the mustang to figure that out but it might save someone else some heartache. Not putting the retracts on a separate battery was just stupid on my part and I would still have the plane today if I used my head.

Condor060

My Feedback: (2)

The only part of this I would question is using the LiFe battery. I would use a lithium Ion instead. The reason is the LiFe batteries maintain a very constant voltage through the discharge phase. When it dies, it dies very quick. The LiFe can give you a voltage check prior to flight of 6 volts and die two minutes later. There is no way to gauge how much juice is left in the pack from flight to flight because there is no slow voltage drop curve on those packs.Lithium Ion batteries have a natural slow curve to their voltage drop off rates so its easy to gauge flight to flight how much battery life you have in the pack. That's my opinion brother.

coyote216

ThunderBoat42

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Thanksfor the tip there.... Still running niMh's the planes (I'm slow to change)... Bought the X4 charger and some LiFe batteries to try them out. Will pick up some of the L Ion's and give them a try.

Mr.Stang

Hello All

Sorry Fred for you lost.
I use on my P-51 a Emcotec double Powersource with 2 Leds to the Receiver and use 2 Life 2500.
I put all the Batts and ignition under the Hood with a Woodtable thats removable for Service.
With this Configuration i have no Probs with the CG.
In all my Models i put all Weight ,if possible, to the Front.
And Fred, with the Flight metal add u a lot of weight to the rear.
My ESM T-28 have also Flitemetalcoating and have a 1,9Kg Engine under the Cowl!Need no additionel weights.

Fred

ThunderBoat42

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Fred ... you inspire inovation.

Being one of the few who doesnt mind the mess trade off for power and that great smell of nitro..... Purchased the Biela prop in same size (17.25x8) and mounted to a new YS I had. The engine is a beast! ran a gallon of YS 20/20 through it slobbering rich on a 2 blade then tuned and added the Biela. Still runing a little rich .. but the set up will be good on the ESM. Idle was very reliable at 1380 although I think around 1600 would be safer. Throttle response was instant. I am PLEASED although... rare to ever say.... but may need a little more prop...

cowboychris244

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My Mustang came in at 17# 4 oz after the lead weight was added to the nose. How does this compare with others? I have a DLE 30 under the hood swinging a Vess 19B two blade prop. Any thoughts?