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**Seagull Nemesis** The need for speed build thread!!

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**Seagull Nemesis** The need for speed build thread!!

Old 01-27-2013, 11:02 AM
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Mustangman40
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Default **Seagull Nemesis** The need for speed build thread!!

I finally couldn't take it any more, this plane has been sitting at my LHS for awhile now and I just had to take it home.. The pictures I have seen just didn't do it any justice, it has the wow factor when you open the lid, like a little puppy in the window saying please take me home...lol

The realNemesis was designed to race and better yet, "WIN" and it did just that.. There are some great reads about the plane as well as vids from it's designer, builder and pilot, just google Nemesis..

Being this is to bea fast airplane, mine is getting some power under the hood.After talking to a couple guys and seeing some vid of them flying on a 30cc, it definitely needs more motor.. As you can see in the pics this baby is just crying for a twin, so a twin itwill have...

The DLE 60 twin by all accounts lookslike it will be an awesome fit, the cowl on this birdhas big cheeks and should make for a niceclean installation.. I will have togive the exhaust some thinking, but I have some ideas on what I will do with that... I tooklots ofpictures and figure we cantalk about the plane while I gather upall the goodies forit...

Jimbo
Old 01-27-2013, 11:22 AM
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Default RE: **Seagull Nemesis** The need for speed build thread!!

As you can see in the pics, this plane has very clean lines, it wants to go fast... The stab looks big to me, with a WS of 80.5" the stab is 32 3/4"... But the stab has a airfoil and should make this plane track great...

One thing that I will change for sure is the CA hinges, noting against them, I just don't personally like them.. I will use the large Dubro flat hinge, it's a quick mod being they are already slotted for CA hinges and has worked well for me on many other planes...

Overall impressions with the airframe are pretty good, it's well built and the fit of parts are right on.. I will do some beefing up here and there with Tri-stock as I go.. With the turtle deck off it's wide open, making any changes a breeze...

Here is a list of components I plan on using...

DLE 60 twin

Servos will be Hyperion Atlas DS20 FMD all around.. My guy at the hobby shop turned me onto them and I have been pretty happy with them..
They are a Metal gear dual BB digital with 226oz of torque with a speed of .13secat 6v and a bargain at $35.00...

I also will use a Smart-Fly Pro Power Expander.. A member turned me onto them and I really like all the features. It's over kill, but the dual battery share and easy set up of twin elv. servos along with the pin style failsafe switch, just a real nice unit for the money...



Jimbo
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Old 01-27-2013, 11:41 AM
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Default RE: **Seagull Nemesis** The need for speed build thread!!



I'm really impressed with the quality of the cowl, it's big and the paint job looks great.. Once I get the motor and mount it, I will decide if I will do a two piece cowl or not.. Cooling shouldn'tbe an issue with the way it's designed, if anything a few holes in the bottom, but not much...


Some key features that I like..

The Elv. servos go in the tail and have 1/4" ply to screw to, nice and strong.
They also added a battery compartment for you if needed, this should make balancing problem free...

You can see there is a lot of surface for gluing in the stab and very easy to add some more just in case, the tail end is really well designed and strong..

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Old 01-27-2013, 11:49 AM
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Default RE: **Seagull Nemesis** The need for speed build thread!!



The firewall box is well built as well and is one piece that runs all the way to the TD, some tri stock along the sides should be all I need. Lots of room to work inside........ Not sure if I will have to shorten up the length of the box or not. Anyone know what the length of the DLE is from plate to hub, having a hard time finding that info?

They even added lights on the wing tips, pretty neat....

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Old 01-27-2013, 01:04 PM
  #5  
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Default RE: **Seagull Nemesis** The need for speed build thread!!

A very nice and fast looking model, good luck with the assembly/install. With a 60 twin up front hang on, cause it's going to be really quick.

Karol
Old 01-27-2013, 02:57 PM
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Default RE: **Seagull Nemesis** The need for speed build thread!!

Wow! Now that looks fast just sitting there Jimbo, you better strap that thing to your stand before it fly's off there.

Subscribed, looking forward to seeing her come together.
Old 01-27-2013, 05:45 PM
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Default RE: **Seagull Nemesis** The need for speed build thread!!

Good news, I won't have to change the firewall box at all.. It calls for the hub to be 155mm from the FW and the DLE is 145mm. The motorcomes with 20mm standoffs, so itlooks like all I will have to do is get some 10mm standoffs and I will be good to go..


Anyone have a good source for Carbon Fiber landing gear.. The kit comes with aluminum ones and I would like to change that to Cf if I can.. The wheels are a real light but hard foam, going to change them out as well...

Jimbo
Old 01-28-2013, 09:53 AM
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Default RE: **Seagull Nemesis** The need for speed build thread!!

Check Graph Tech RC for CF l/gear.

Karol
Old 01-28-2013, 10:39 AM
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Default RE: **Seagull Nemesis** The need for speed build thread!!


ORIGINAL: karolh

Check Graph Tech RC for CF l/gear.

Karol
Thanks for the tip, I will check them out............

Jimbo
Old 02-16-2013, 07:48 PM
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Default RE: **Seagull Nemesis** The need for speed build thread!!

The DLE 60 Twin is ordered but is on back order till mid March, not a huge deal as I have plenty to do..

I started changing the hinges tonight, as a said earlier I was not going to use the CA hinges and went with the Dubro standard size.. I doubled up onthe root end as well as the tips just for the extra peace of mind. The end result is a nice tight hinge gap that is nice and smoothand will out live the plane...

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Old 02-17-2013, 07:15 AM
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Default RE: **Seagull Nemesis** The need for speed build thread!!

I plan on making mine a one of with some paint and new decals that I think will look pretty sharp...

Question
Painting over ultracoat? Besides scuffing it with a scotch brite pad or steel wool and cleaning it real good, any other tips? I am doing a two color checkerboard that starts on the cowl, goes onto the fuse then flares out on the wing...
Also, should I use a primer first or just shoot the color? I don't want the paint line where it breaks back to the ultracoat to be to thick and do you think i will have any problems sanding that down before clear coating with out dulling the finish of the ultracoat...
I am gonna do some test on some scraps first for sure...
Old 02-17-2013, 09:12 AM
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Default RE: **Seagull Nemesis** The need for speed build thread!!


ORIGINAL: Mustangman40

I plan on making mine a one of with some paint and new decals that I think will look pretty sharp...

Question
Painting over ultracoat? Besides scuffing it with a scotch brite pad or steel wool and cleaning it real good, any other tips? I am doing a two color checkerboard that starts on the cowl, goes onto the fuse then flares out on the wing...
Also, should I use a primer first or just shoot the color? I don't want the paint line where it breaks back to the ultracoat to be to thick and do you think i will have any problems sanding that down before clear coating with out dulling the finish of the ultracoat...
I am gonna do some test on some scraps first for sure...
Re: painting over Ultracote. Most any decent paint will adhere to Ultracote. The main problems you will have is whether the color you choose will cover the base Ultracote. Dark colors over a light base of Ultracote will be OK without a primer. Going the other way and putting a light color over a dark Ultracote base will probably require a white or light gray primer base. Flexibility of the paint and primer film is another issue. If you have open bay areas the paint will have to be able to flex some or it will crack over time. Most epoxy or urethane based paints will work OK if you keep the paint film as thin as possible. also remember paint is weight which brings up another subject .....

That plane is going to get heavy quickly with a twin in the nose and the additional weight required to balance it. Wing loading will be going up at an alarming rate! Is that airframe and especially the wing structure, tail and tail mount built strong enough to take the flight loads you'll be putting on it? How about control horn mounting points? Strong enough or do you need to add hard points? Speed often brings on flutter so you'll have to do everything you can to prevent that. Landing speeds will be high so I hope you have a long, smooth runway. Looking for speed, I assume you'll be using higher than normal pitched props which will further complicate landing and in some cases require that you land dead stick in order to get landing airspeeds to an acceptable range. I don't want to be a pessimist here but going fast entails a lot more than just more HP. I do wish you well as a project like this can be a lot of fun.
Old 02-17-2013, 10:45 AM
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Default RE: **Seagull Nemesis** The need for speed build thread!!


ORIGINAL: Truckracer


ORIGINAL: Mustangman40

I plan on making mine a one of with some paint and new decals that I think will look pretty sharp...

Question
Painting over ultracoat? Besides scuffing it with a scotch brite pad or steel wool and cleaning it real good, any other tips? I am doing a two color checkerboard that starts on the cowl, goes onto the fuse then flares out on the wing...
Also, should I use a primer first or just shoot the color? I don't want the paint line where it breaks back to the ultracoat to be to thick and do you think i will have any problems sanding that down before clear coating with out dulling the finish of the ultracoat...
I am gonna do some test on some scraps first for sure...
Re: painting over Ultracote. Most any decent paint will adhere to Ultracote. The main problems you will have is whether the color you choose will cover the base Ultracote. Dark colors over a light base of Ultracote will be OK without a primer. Going the other way and putting a light color over a dark Ultracote base will probably require a white or light gray primer base. Flexibility of the paint and primer film is another issue. If you have open bay areas the paint will have to be able to flex some or it will crack over time. Most epoxy or urethane based paints will work OK if you keep the paint film as thin as possible. also remember paint is weight which brings up another subject .....

That plane is going to get heavy quickly with a twin in the nose and the additional weight required to balance it. Wing loading will be going up at an alarming rate! Is that airframe and especially the wing structure, tail and tail mount built strong enough to take the flight loads you'll be putting on it? How about control horn mounting points? Strong enough or do you need to add hard points? Speed often brings on flutter so you'll have to do everything you can to prevent that. Landing speeds will be high so I hope you have a long, smooth runway. Looking for speed, I assume you'll be using higher than normal pitched props which will further complicate landing and in some cases require that you land dead stick in order to get landing airspeeds to an acceptable range. I don't want to be a pessimist here but going fast entails a lot more than just more HP. I do wish you well as a project like this can be a lot of fun.
Truckracer,
thanks for that raising some very good points, your right on the money with your thinking on every account..

I did my homework on this plane so to say and normally don't like using an ARF as a speed plane, you just never know how well it was built. When your building your own from the ground up, you can add what is needed to take the loads..
Seagull by all accounts did a great job on this plane. The TE of the stab is made from hardwood, not sure on the type but hinging it last night, it's not balsa for sure... Flutter is a real concern with me and that's why I am taking every step to avoid it .. The control horns are pretty great an ARF, they have hardwood with a bolt going through, I will change the bolt to a good quality steel to to be on the safe side. The control surface set up on this plane is about as strong as you will get....

The tail was also a concern I had right off the bat, but they built it stronger then I would have if building from plans. The whole back end is rock solid, I will add some more gluing surface to mount the stab, but that is about all that will be needed.. I will get some pics and post them later to get your opinion on it..

The fields I will fly this at are actual air strips for the real thing, nice and long for the low longapproaches I will have while landing.. Worst case I will have a kill switch on the TX so I can kill it and dead stick if it's to much at idle, but I think it will bleed off speed well, given a long enough approach..

I talked with a guy who had a 30cc up front and he had to add a bunch of weight to the nose, so the extra pound+ I will have should work well on getting the CG right.
I decide to up grade my servo choice to a 336oz with a .20 speed at 6v all the way around, it's overkill for a planethis size, but your right, speed adds a whole bunchof things into it.. I would rather have it and not need it,then need it and not haveit...

The wing is the other thing that really hasme thinking, it's the onepart of the plane that you can't see everything andis the highest concern ona speed plane. From all accounts I feel it is good to go, but I will be going over it with a fine tooth comb before I give it the green light.. IfI have any bad feelings aboutit being strong enough, Iwill tear the bottom openand make the changes..I will also get some pics of this tonight to getyour opinion on it, it always helps to have other eyes looking....
Old 02-17-2013, 11:23 AM
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Default RE: **Seagull Nemesis** The need for speed build thread!!

Hey Mustangman,

Sounds like you have things well under control. I hope you didn't think I was talking down to you with my first post but on these forums, you never quite know who is on the other end and what their experience level is.

Back to the painting on the Ultracote thing again .... a major problem with paint on any film is the difficulty of removing any wrinkles if they develop after the paint is in place. You need a paint that is resistant to heat. As you suggested, some test panels are in order. A paint I forgot to mention is plain old Rustoleum in the spray can. The Industrial version is especially good, dries quickly and is very resistant to gasoline. It looks quite good for a spray can paint and it covers very well. It tolerates heat from a heat gun fairly well though you can't touch it with an iron as it just turns to goo. Overall, the epoxy paints and catalized single stage urethanes are the best.

I look forward to following your progress on this project. Again, sounds like fun.
Old 02-17-2013, 12:47 PM
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Default RE: **Seagull Nemesis** The need for speed build thread!!


ORIGINAL: Truckracer

Hey Mustangman,

Sounds like you have things well under control. I hope you didn't think I was talking down to you with my first post but on these forums, you never quite know who is on the other end and what their experience level is.

Back to the painting on the Ultracote thing again .... a major problem with paint on any film is the difficulty of removing any wrinkles if they develop after the paint is in place. You need a paint that is resistant to heat. As you suggested, some test panels are in order. A paint I forgot to mention is plain old Rustoleum in the spray can. The Industrial version is especially good, dries quickly and is very resistant to gasoline. It looks quite good for a spray can paint and it covers very well. It tolerates heat from a heat gun fairly well though you can't touch it with an iron as it just turns to goo. Overall, the epoxy paints and catalized single stage urethanes are the best.

I look forward to following your progress on this project. Again, sounds like fun.

TR,
no problem and I know what you mean about who is on the other end.. I see guys offer advice and the other guy flies off the deep end....
I always like advice from other builders, if it's good advice I use it, if not so good then I don't..

Glad you are gonna follow along with this plane, it's sure to be a fun project....
Old 02-17-2013, 04:55 PM
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Default RE: **Seagull Nemesis** The need for speed build thread!!

Here are some better pics of the tail showing just how well designed and built it is, very solid..

pic-1
When I remove the covering from the saddle there is 1/2" rails that are solid balsa for gluing the stab in, this is where I will add some stock across to give more gluing surface..

pic-2
Shows the solid former that is light ply and well glued and is also keyed in to the battery frame work. I normally go over all the glue joints on an ARF but all the ones I can see have glue visible, I will still go over them..

pic-3-4-5 shows how the V. fin glues in and is keyed in to the forward former. Pic-6 My plan is to add two hard wood pins in the back just to add extra strength.

I'm pretty impressed with the design on the tail, for an ARF it doesn't get much stronger than this..

Any thoughts as to what else can be done to beef it up, I'm all ears?
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Old 02-24-2013, 02:30 PM
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Default RE: **Seagull Nemesis** The need for speed build thread!!

Well work got in the way this week of doing any work on the Nemesis, did get a day off today and got some stuff done..
I just about have all the hinging done so nothing to exciting.. I did get my canopy blacked out and she looks sleek...
The frame is painted the same color as the cowl so I taped that off just so the black didn't darken itany. I think it's a good look for a race plane and with the other colors I will add to the plane, it should all pop..


Jimbo
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Old 03-12-2013, 10:03 AM
  #18  
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Default RE: **Seagull Nemesis** The need for speed build thread!!

My motor will be here in two days, so I jumped from a build I am doing (waiting on the wheels to get here for it) and didsome work on the Nemesis...

Mounting the stab..
Not real exciting butthere were some things i thought I would post about so others can check theirs...

First I attached thewings to the fuse andused the hold down bolts sothey were pulled all the way in.. I took a string with a pin in the center ofthe firewall and made sure they were square to the fuse. They were right on the money, very happy with that.. I then leveled the fuse and checked my incidence, bingo, it was perfect.. Very very happy about that, they built mine niceand straight!

I then set the stab in the cradle and weighted it down with some sand bags and checked the incidence on it. It was reading not even a 1/4 of a degree+, so i checked the wing to make sure nothing moved and it was all good.. I was going to leave things alone being so close to 0, till I checked the tips of the stab and seen it was an 1/8" off... In the first pic you can see the left side is dropping down and this needed to be fixed for my liking.. I had to sand the cradle on the port side to get the stab sitting level to the wings, not much work to get it right..
A little trick i use at work when I have to sand with a belt sander and it works great on stuff like this when you need to sand off the same amount.. Take a pencil and put some marks all over where you need to sand, when the pencil marks are gone, stop sanding there.. It took sanding off my marks four times to get the stab level.. So while I was at it I got the incidence right on the numbers as well.. It sounds like more work then it really is, in all it took about 30 minutes to get everything right on.. I am kind of anal when it comes to setting up my stuff and I feel it's time well spent...

You can see in the second pic things look a lot better, my bench is level so some quick measurements of the wings to the bench and the stab to the bench, when they are equal, your good to go...
Last thing I checked was the stab to the fuse with the string method and from wing tip to stab tip, all was good. I added some tri-stock for more gluing surface and mixed up my epoxy, just waiting on it to cure...


One other thing to mention about the stab that really impressed me.. In the pics you can see that the trailing edge is infact hard wood, but it's also one piece, no joint.. The sheeting is also full length with no seam in the middle.. Also, the leading edge is 1/8" ply between the sheeting, not sure how far back it goes, but it's really solid... The whole stab is rock solid, tad on the heavy side, but rock solid.. I can see why others end up needing weight in the nose, I shouldn't be in the boat with the twin up front...


Jimbo
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Old 03-12-2013, 11:54 AM
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Default RE: **Seagull Nemesis** The need for speed build thread!!

Fin installation..

In the pic you can see that there is plenty of gluing surface doing it as is, but I wanted a little more.. I trimmed the coveringclose to the edge on the fin and added some 1/4" sticks across the top of the saddle and sanded to fit. I also drilled holes aft the stab where it's ply to ply, i didn't go all the way through, just deep dimples for the epoxy to grab to... The tail is all glued, straight and strong... I will get some servos mounted tonight, then it's on to the motor soon as it arrives....

Jimbo
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Old 03-13-2013, 11:30 AM
  #20  
Mustangman40
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Default RE: **Seagull Nemesis** The need for speed build thread!!

I got the landing gear on so I could check and see what kind of prop clearance i will have.. I was at a swapmeet over the weekend and picked up some 4.5" wheels for it.. I didn't care for the 4" that came with the plane and the wheel pants will still fit with a little trimming....

I need to start thinking about what size prop, this is what they spec for the motor 22x10, 23x8, 23x10, 24x8. I have 12 7/8" clearance, so 22" will be a max, I'm thinking smaller with more pitch.. Love to here what others think on prop size...

Jimbo
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Old 03-14-2013, 02:29 AM
  #21  
Herc Pilot
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Default RE: **Seagull Nemesis** The need for speed build thread!!

I've been following this thread with interest. I love the Nemesis and have been throwing around the idea of doing what you are with this one. I have a Hostetler Nemesis that I raced back in the day in the Unlimited Scale Racing Association. General rule of thumb on speed props is to get as close to the same diameter and pitch as possible, a 'squared' prop. I had a Quadra 75RSS that I ran on an 18x18 at around 10K rpm. You want to make sure you are in the peak of your power band with whatever prop you choose. So if the DLE makes the most power at 8000 RPM, you want your prop to hit at least that. Running the higher pitch props will take longer to spool up and you may have to dead stick the landings, but this will maximize your speed. APC makes a 20x15 prop for the AT-6 racing class. They run G-62's, so your displacement is close and you may want to start there.

Keep up the good work!

Adam
aka Herc Pilot
Old 03-14-2013, 05:28 AM
  #22  
Mustangman40
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Default RE: **Seagull Nemesis** The need for speed build thread!!


ORIGINAL: Herc Pilot

I've been following this thread with interest. I love the Nemesis and have been throwing around the idea of doing what you are with this one. I have a Hostetler Nemesis that I raced back in the day in the Unlimited Scale Racing Association. General rule of thumb on speed props is to get as close to the same diameter and pitch as possible, a 'squared' prop. I had a Quadra 75RSS that I ran on an 18x18 at around 10K rpm. You want to make sure you are in the peak of your power band with whatever prop you choose. So if the DLE makes the most power at 8000 RPM, you want your prop to hit at least that. Running the higher pitch props will take longer to spool up and you may have to dead stick the landings, but this will maximize your speed. APC makes a 20x15 prop for the AT-6 racing class. They run G-62's, so your displacement is close and you may want to start there.

Keep up the good work!

Adam
aka Herc Pilot
Adam,
Great info and I thank you for that... I did some reading on the combo with a stock G-62 that prop on a 100" T-6 and they are saying 150mph, wow, the Nemesis shouldmove pretty dang good... I think i will break the motor in with what prop they recommend first, then give the 20x15 a try.. That way I can can get all the bugs on a new plane worked out and some stick time on her to boot.. Landing shouldn't be a problem, I have 2600' if needed lol...Nice low and long approach and electronic kill switch if needed..


UPS says my 60 is on the truck for delivery today, where is the little dancing dude icon..lol


I worked on the wings last night, hinging is all done and servos are mounted... I am using a 334oz digital's all the way around with aluminum arms, 6x32 bolts for control horns and 4-40 titanium rods, same set up on Elv... I will post some pics of the power plant later on.........

Jimbo

Old 03-14-2013, 06:22 AM
  #23  
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Default RE: **Seagull Nemesis** The need for speed build thread!!

Hey Jimbo,

You are doing a great job with putting your Speed Demon together................. I really hope the DLE will fit totally inside the cowl for you. A friend of mine bought a Seagull Nemesis last year and he put his twin carb Saito 300 in it and the engine would have fiit inside the cowl just fine except that he had to cut the cowl on the left side for the valve covers on the motor due to engine offset to center the spinner on the cowl....................[:@] I'm also looking forward to seeing your new paint job. I'd be curious to see what an electric setup around the Rimfire 50cc or 65cc would do in the Nemesis. I bet it would fly circles around my friends Sundowner with the Rimfire 160.

Good luck in finishing up your Nemesis. I can't wait to read about your maiden flight report.

David
Old 03-14-2013, 07:14 AM
  #24  
Mustangman40
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Default RE: **Seagull Nemesis** The need for speed build thread!!


ORIGINAL: hrrcflyer

Hey Jimbo,

You are doing a great job with putting your Speed Demon together................. I really hope the DLE will fit totally inside the cowl for you. A friend of mine bought a Seagull Nemesis last year and he put his twin carb Saito 300 in it and the engine would have fiit inside the cowl just fine except that he had to cut the cowl on the left side for the valve covers on the motor due to engine offset to center the spinner on the cowl....................[:@] I'm also looking forward to seeing your new paint job. I'd be curious to see what an electric setup around the Rimfire 50cc or 65cc would do in the Nemesis. I bet it would fly circles around my friends Sundowner with the Rimfire 160.

Good luck in finishing up your Nemesis. I can't wait to read about your maiden flight report.

David
David,
Thanks for the kind words......
We will find out on the fit in a couple hours, I got Lowjack on my UPS drivers truck and he is getting close..lol

Funny you should mention about the paint job, I was just down in the shop doing up a sample to see how I like the color...It's funny how I came up with the Lime color. I had the plane sitting on another bench closer to where the wife does the laundry, there was a bottle of Gain Laundry det. sitting on the shelf behind it, BAM, it hit me....lol

I did a scrap piece just to see how I like the color and how well the paint will stick to the covering.. I sanded it down with 220 just to see, the paint covered well... The color I picked has a metal flake in it that matches the red/pink metal flake on the plane, should look great in the sun... Little tip on metal flake out of a can, soak the can in warm water for 5 minutes before spraying.. Waiting on it to dry, more pics later...
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Old 03-14-2013, 10:19 AM
  #25  
Mustangman40
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Default RE: **Seagull Nemesis** The need for speed build thread!!

The Motor is here and it is ohhhhhhhh so close, looks like I will have to cut out for the caps.. The heads both fit totally inside the cowl, it's just with the offset of the motor, that the caps will have to be cut out on the left side, maybe not on the right.. Not a big deal with me at all considering...

You can see in the pics that the motor fits in the cowl at the narrower aft end, with the caps on I will have to turn it a bit to get it on, it gets wider pretty quick with the big cheeks.. The manual is pretty much no help when mounting the motor, the text in the pic is all you have to go on...lol

Pics 4-5 Now you see it now you don't.........

I checked the firewall and it has Right hand thrust and some down, so i think the center marks that they have on the opening for fuel tank are the ones to go by.. The upper mark is true center that I put on... I slipped the cowl on and you can see in the pick that the hole lines up with the spinner hole....

Thoughts on this please.
The motor is 145mm from the back plate to the hub and the manual calls for 155mm, so i need about 3/8" for spacers.. The more I am thinking about it, I'm thinking of wrapping the whole firewall box with carbon fiber plate.. I can add another full 1/4" firewall andpin theoriginal firewall and thenwrap thewhole box including the front with CFplates.. The ignition will be mounted on the box, does anyone see a problem with this? I'm not worried about weight, this thingwill still be in the 14 pound range with all the beefing up. Strength is more important to me...

Jimbo
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