RC Guys 33% Pitts S1 ARF
#27
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Ha ha sounds funny doesn't it. I want the Header to fit this, remember I want to do something about the noise. I fly from two fields at one I only fly neighbor friendly planes. Now that I think about it I could just add another inlet to this muffler and not need the two into one header..hmm
Last edited by RonMcCormick; 12-07-2013 at 07:14 PM.
#28
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Well, there certainly would be room enough to add a secondary muffler (or mufflers) inside the cowl of this Pitts, if there isn't a direct replacement.
Just a suggestion, as I think upside down and backwards here; why not use the one you showed here as a secondary muffler, using the two exhausts as intakes, and the single intake could act as an exhaust pipe? That would be pretty quiet, I'd reckon.
~ Jim ~
Just a suggestion, as I think upside down and backwards here; why not use the one you showed here as a secondary muffler, using the two exhausts as intakes, and the single intake could act as an exhaust pipe? That would be pretty quiet, I'd reckon.
~ Jim ~
Last edited by PacificNWSkyPilot; 12-07-2013 at 07:54 PM.
#29
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Well, there certainly would be room enough to add a secondary muffler (or mufflers) inside the cowl of this Pitts, if there isn't a direct replacement.
Just a suggestion, as I think upside down and backwards here; why not use the one you showed here as a secondary muffler, using the two exhausts as intakes, and the single intake could act as an exhaust pipe? That would be pretty quiet, I'd reckon.
~ Jim ~
Just a suggestion, as I think upside down and backwards here; why not use the one you showed here as a secondary muffler, using the two exhausts as intakes, and the single intake could act as an exhaust pipe? That would be pretty quiet, I'd reckon.
~ Jim ~
I think will go ahead and order this muffler because I will use it no matter what motor I decide on.
#31
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http://www.milehighrc.com/muffler.html
#32
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Jim,
I've have had 2 of the Cermark Pitts and now have 4 of the Great Planes versions so I guess I share in your sickness. The Gee Bees are second for me I guess, as I've had a bunch of them and was fly a Great Planes R2 this past summer. What 1/4 scale R2 did you buy?
I'll be following this thread with great interest as a buddy of mine just bought a VVRC 20. Looks like a nice engine.
I hope all is well with you Jim and Happy Holidays.
Good flying,
paul
I've have had 2 of the Cermark Pitts and now have 4 of the Great Planes versions so I guess I share in your sickness. The Gee Bees are second for me I guess, as I've had a bunch of them and was fly a Great Planes R2 this past summer. What 1/4 scale R2 did you buy?
I'll be following this thread with great interest as a buddy of mine just bought a VVRC 20. Looks like a nice engine.
I hope all is well with you Jim and Happy Holidays.
Good flying,
paul
#34
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Ron,
The downtubes are 5/8", or just a hair larger. The teflon (PTFE) tubing I showed was 5/8" I.D., and fits smooth and tight.
I know a lot of guys have 50CC engines in these, but most of those are run at half-throttle much of the time. Running them much faster than that can shake the bird apart. Dan at RC Guys has heard a few of those stories as well.
The recommended gas engine sizes for this RC Guys Pitts is 25CC to 40CC. That means this Valley View 40CC twin is about perfect for it. If you're going with a single (which is more powerful per CC), you can match the power with a 35 CC. I know there are some of those out there with special pricing right now. One of the DLE models is more than a hundred dollars less than this twin. I was real tempted by that one, and if I wasn't so dead-set on having a twin this time around, I think I would have bought it.
At the time, my reasoning was that I could buy this 40 CC twin for the same price I'd been paying for my Syssa 30CC singles. The day I ordered this V V40CC, I'd waited a full year for the Syssa I ordered. (The Syssa arrived two days later, and I sold it off.) I'm pleased with it, and thrilled that I have a twin to play with, and I was all psyched up when I discovered how the cooling holes in the cowl match the engine's cylinders so well. All things to think about when you're matching a model and engine.
~ Jim ~
The downtubes are 5/8", or just a hair larger. The teflon (PTFE) tubing I showed was 5/8" I.D., and fits smooth and tight.
I know a lot of guys have 50CC engines in these, but most of those are run at half-throttle much of the time. Running them much faster than that can shake the bird apart. Dan at RC Guys has heard a few of those stories as well.
The recommended gas engine sizes for this RC Guys Pitts is 25CC to 40CC. That means this Valley View 40CC twin is about perfect for it. If you're going with a single (which is more powerful per CC), you can match the power with a 35 CC. I know there are some of those out there with special pricing right now. One of the DLE models is more than a hundred dollars less than this twin. I was real tempted by that one, and if I wasn't so dead-set on having a twin this time around, I think I would have bought it.
At the time, my reasoning was that I could buy this 40 CC twin for the same price I'd been paying for my Syssa 30CC singles. The day I ordered this V V40CC, I'd waited a full year for the Syssa I ordered. (The Syssa arrived two days later, and I sold it off.) I'm pleased with it, and thrilled that I have a twin to play with, and I was all psyched up when I discovered how the cooling holes in the cowl match the engine's cylinders so well. All things to think about when you're matching a model and engine.
~ Jim ~
#35
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Jim I agree with all you say and I consider all of the issues you raise and more. I believe this 40cc twin is the best choice in engines. On the subject of the airframe I disagree, the old design is what Dan is talking about. This new engine box and fuse is built like the proverbial brick out house. I have seen many 50cc airframes built not as well. The reason I consider the 55cc singles is I can muffle it as much as I want without getting under powered. My only fear with the 40cc is I could get it quite and then not have the power I want. I know if I get the 40cc twin and leave it along with just exhaust extensions I will love it. I liked your Idea of leaving the stock mufflers on and run the outlets into another muffler. I ordered the muffler pictured in post # 27. I'm going to cut the inlet off and add two 5/8" inlets formed to line up with the mufflers and I think that will get rid of the high frequency noise, should sound nice and not loose rpm. What do you think? Lot of work but I'm determined to be able to fly with out being heard by the nearest house at the #2 flying site. If I could fit a canister it would be great. I have to get the engine ordered now that I have my mind made up.
#36
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Gee, I only talked to Dan two weeks ago, and we were talking about which engine is right for these frames, I promise you.
It WILL carry the 50 to 55CC engines. It's just a whole lot for that bird. Add some serious extra bracing on the firewall and in the nose, and you'll probably be fine. It's hard to say no to some of the deals they're having right now on these new singles.
I think if you run it through a secondary muffler or canister, I think that would work, and I'm sure there's room enough for all of it inside that big roomy cowl. For the twin, you could also buy two more V V40 stock mufflers and tube them together to the originals.
~ Jim ~
It WILL carry the 50 to 55CC engines. It's just a whole lot for that bird. Add some serious extra bracing on the firewall and in the nose, and you'll probably be fine. It's hard to say no to some of the deals they're having right now on these new singles.
I think if you run it through a secondary muffler or canister, I think that would work, and I'm sure there's room enough for all of it inside that big roomy cowl. For the twin, you could also buy two more V V40 stock mufflers and tube them together to the originals.
~ Jim ~
#37
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Paul!
How have you been? Great to see you in here. Yes, you and I have always been bipe fans, and the Gee Bees are just mono-wing extensions of that madness!
The R-2 I bought was built from an Adrian Page kit. Fabric and paint, painted with one of the Nelson paint systems.
I hope your holidays are happy as well. Don't be a stranger!
~ Jim ~
How have you been? Great to see you in here. Yes, you and I have always been bipe fans, and the Gee Bees are just mono-wing extensions of that madness!
The R-2 I bought was built from an Adrian Page kit. Fabric and paint, painted with one of the Nelson paint systems.
I hope your holidays are happy as well. Don't be a stranger!
~ Jim ~
#38
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Good news! I just read that Valley View is giving 10 percent discount on any purchase you make from now until the 24th. That would make the 40CC twin a good deal!
~ Jim ~
~ Jim ~
#40
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On another note after being so excited about the construction on the kit and the appearance of the finish I came face to face with CHINAKOTE. I noticed two very fine white lines on the side of the fuse turns out they are overlap lines and they are white because CHINAKOTE has a white backing !!! in addition to that the over lap is from front to back which makes the joint obvious when viewed from the front ucky ucky ucky! I'm so upset I'm going to go out and shovel the 2" of snow we got.
#41
Having had the RC Guys Decathlon I can tell you the ChinaKote will drive you nuts. It peels the color layer off and then if you try to patch it you'll find no UltraCote or MonoKote will match it. When I had my Decathlon Dan did not have any ChinaKote rolls that you could buy. I love their planes but have not purchased another one due to the ChinaKote issue I dealt with on the Decathlon. I assume his most recent releases are using UltraCote but I don't know that for a fact. Jerry.
#42
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Two new developments regarding the chinakote, Dan at RC Guys says they sell Chinakote by the foot 20" wide or by the roll $20.00. That solves my complaint I was upset at not being able to color match with ultrakote which chinakote is a copy of but the colors don't match. The other item is now that I think about it I can cover the seams with decals so I don't have to refinish the entire plane LOL. So now I can start slinging glue.
#43
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Ron,
Keep an eye on the inventory for the V V40CC twins. They come in at intervals, and they seem to sell out pretty quickly. It's worth checking every day or so.
Paul - I'll look for your PM.
Jerry - The Decathlons had that issue for a while, too. I don't know if it's completely resolved, but I think it is for the most part. If I get tired of the colors, I might just strip it and use Ultracote to make my own new color scheme.
~ Jim ~
Keep an eye on the inventory for the V V40CC twins. They come in at intervals, and they seem to sell out pretty quickly. It's worth checking every day or so.
Paul - I'll look for your PM.
Jerry - The Decathlons had that issue for a while, too. I don't know if it's completely resolved, but I think it is for the most part. If I get tired of the colors, I might just strip it and use Ultracote to make my own new color scheme.
~ Jim ~
#44
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Having had the RC Guys Decathlon I can tell you the ChinaKote will drive you nuts. It peels the color layer off and then if you try to patch it you'll find no UltraCote or MonoKote will match it. When I had my Decathlon Dan did not have any ChinaKote rolls that you could buy. I love their planes but have not purchased another one due to the ChinaKote issue I dealt with on the Decathlon. I assume his most recent releases are using UltraCote but I don't know that for a fact. Jerry.
#45
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Well this kit has taken a 180 deg turn for me. I take back everything I said about the quality of the construction of this kit. Take a look at the photo, I one of the things I check for on ARFs is the corner stock to see if it is hardwood or just balsa, you will be surprised how often it is balsa. I just picked on the edge with my thumb nail and I felt it move so I pulled a little harder and it just pulled away from the corner! I now have ZERO confidence in flying this plane, Don't know what else to say.. 35 year itch for a Pitts S1 and come to this. I won't spend another dime on this. Next pitts for me will be scratch built from plans or a good kit.
#46
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That piece isn't supposed to be there. There's no tri-stock on the inside there. The tri-stock pieces go on the outside of the firewall. I think it ended up there by accident, so I wouldn't expect it to be glued in. I've been digging around the framework on mine, and I'm finding good, solid joints so far. I'm not done checking everything yet, of course. I'm really just getting started on this bird.
If you don't want your Pitts, Ron, maybe we can work out a deal! ( opportunist at large). . .
Since you spoke of re-covering at some point, then it seems a good alternative right now might be to open it up and go over the framework glue-points, if you're concerned.
Also, you might talk to Dan at RC Guys. He's probably seen this before (Friday and Monday-built models) and may have established a policy on it.
I'm sure at some point I'll re-cover mine. I don't know If I'll keep the existing yellow and black color scheme. I'm known for changing and making my own schemes, usually they're pretty fancy. But I do like the sunburst patterns, they're like something I might come up with on my own.
~ Jim ~
If you don't want your Pitts, Ron, maybe we can work out a deal! ( opportunist at large). . .
Since you spoke of re-covering at some point, then it seems a good alternative right now might be to open it up and go over the framework glue-points, if you're concerned.
Also, you might talk to Dan at RC Guys. He's probably seen this before (Friday and Monday-built models) and may have established a policy on it.
I'm sure at some point I'll re-cover mine. I don't know If I'll keep the existing yellow and black color scheme. I'm known for changing and making my own schemes, usually they're pretty fancy. But I do like the sunburst patterns, they're like something I might come up with on my own.
~ Jim ~
Last edited by PacificNWSkyPilot; 12-10-2013 at 06:11 PM.
#47
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The reason there should be no tri-stock inside the firewall is so you have a place to mount extra wall thickness to. That's where I mounted my 1/4" ply reinforcement piece, and then tri-stocked that with hardwood tri-stock.
~ Jim ~
~ Jim ~
#48
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I just got my spinner back from Tru-Turn, all drilled and machined to fit this lovely beastie, and decided to put it all together and have a look at it. And when I did, well, guess what, I just found something I didn't like about this engine. This engine is a Valley View 40CC twin, and the propeller is a Valley View brand propeller, but the engine bolts provided that are meant to hold the propeller to the plate are too short.
They're almost long enough if you don't use a spinner plate behind it. But this is a really nice engine. Who wouldn't be using a spinner? My guess is almost nobody who has one.
The V-V propeller is wood, and it's a beefy piece of wood, too, so it's pretty thick. It has a hefty washer in front of it as well. The body/thread of the screw is 1-3/8" long, and it needs be at least 1-5/8", minimum. I guess the next acceptable interval would be 1-3/4", which would work fine.
My best guess of reasonably / commonly available screw lengths would be 2". Some shortening of the 2" screws will almost certainly be necessary, to prevent the screws from striking the pickup mounted behind the prop plate, on the neck of the engine. The ideal length would be 1-3/4", I'd say. I'll know more later.
This isn't a huge problem, but Valley View should know about it, so they can correct the situation.
I'll get a photo of the assembled prop & spinner, and post it later, when I have some free time. It looks quite good from the right side, and okay from the left (where the gap is larger, due to the added right-thrust and down-thrust). It's as good as it'll get for right now, until we get a chance to see how it performs with those thrusts added to the mix. Seeing as the engine is at the upper range for the plane, I think it's probably pretty close to where it'll end up.
~ Jim ~
They're almost long enough if you don't use a spinner plate behind it. But this is a really nice engine. Who wouldn't be using a spinner? My guess is almost nobody who has one.
The V-V propeller is wood, and it's a beefy piece of wood, too, so it's pretty thick. It has a hefty washer in front of it as well. The body/thread of the screw is 1-3/8" long, and it needs be at least 1-5/8", minimum. I guess the next acceptable interval would be 1-3/4", which would work fine.
My best guess of reasonably / commonly available screw lengths would be 2". Some shortening of the 2" screws will almost certainly be necessary, to prevent the screws from striking the pickup mounted behind the prop plate, on the neck of the engine. The ideal length would be 1-3/4", I'd say. I'll know more later.
This isn't a huge problem, but Valley View should know about it, so they can correct the situation.
I'll get a photo of the assembled prop & spinner, and post it later, when I have some free time. It looks quite good from the right side, and okay from the left (where the gap is larger, due to the added right-thrust and down-thrust). It's as good as it'll get for right now, until we get a chance to see how it performs with those thrusts added to the mix. Seeing as the engine is at the upper range for the plane, I think it's probably pretty close to where it'll end up.
~ Jim ~
Last edited by PacificNWSkyPilot; 12-11-2013 at 11:35 AM.
#49
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Jim, I have found that to be a problem with most engines I run, excluding the spinner less. But not really a problem as I usually throw the stock ones away anyhow and buy a higher grade. With the exception of the Valach, it came with high grade bolts long enough to trim to fit usage. Point is, that's typical.
#50
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Well Jim after I got over my rant I said to myself what I say to my friend when he's in a similar situation " your a modeler fix it". I just finished the fuse found two major and two minor issues. I used three small bottles of thin CA, many of the joints looked dry some. I will put tri stock on every corner associated with the engine box.
Your correct I was going to recover anyway just have to go through the hassle of repainting the cowl the to match ultracote. I love the design of the kit wish I could get just the parts and build it myself.The chinacote was not to hard to remove, they only used high heat in a few spots so be sure to go over with your iron, trim all so. I wonder what I will find in the wings?
About the motor I find the same issue with engines and prop bolts fortunately Fastenal is just a few blocks away. The 40cc twin is a little power house hp = 4.7 that matches the 50cc rcgf twin! I would like to have the fuse completed by Monday.
Your correct I was going to recover anyway just have to go through the hassle of repainting the cowl the to match ultracote. I love the design of the kit wish I could get just the parts and build it myself.The chinacote was not to hard to remove, they only used high heat in a few spots so be sure to go over with your iron, trim all so. I wonder what I will find in the wings?
About the motor I find the same issue with engines and prop bolts fortunately Fastenal is just a few blocks away. The 40cc twin is a little power house hp = 4.7 that matches the 50cc rcgf twin! I would like to have the fuse completed by Monday.