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Phoenix Edge 540 .46 ARF

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Phoenix Edge 540 .46 ARF

Old 11-24-2016, 12:03 AM
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Yes i am. And its doing a much better job . It could be a little faster but its doing pretty well now. What everyone says about changing the cg is true. Its a whole different plane now. I like it

Last edited by 3357; 11-24-2016 at 01:01 AM.
Old 11-25-2016, 11:14 AM
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Nice to know the 46 AX is providing adequate power for the Edge. Good CG info also. thx.
Old 11-27-2016, 08:30 PM
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Yes the 46ax has plenty of power for the edge. Hoovers np . Good vertical climb. I wouldnt recommend using anything smaller though.
Old 11-29-2016, 04:10 PM
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The nice clean looks of this thing got to me combined with the sale. So, I bought one the other day from Tower. On sale combined with free shipping and my super saver discount, It cost me less than $105 bucks to my door. Just can't beat that with a stick.

Was worried about the wing loading a bit. But after watching some of the video posted by warhwk...Looks Pretty solid in flight and on landing. I am sure the plane will fit the bill for me. Without a doubt I'll fine tune the balance point. Kind of standard procedure for me on a new plane.

I'll put a Super Tigre 51 in it spinning a 12X6 and/or a 13X4. No intent for 3D. I do plan to practice some IMAC maneuvers in small scale...
Old 12-01-2016, 12:26 AM
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Good for you. I am sure you will be happy with the edge. And that super tiger should pull it along nicely. Yea to look at that plane you would think it would be pretty quirky. But it is very stable in flight. I have really enjoyed flying mine. As you know the cg they say to use will make the plane very sluggish because it is to nose heavy. Move it back and it makes a world of difference. The plane comes alive. Also on my model I did the lateral balance to it and had to add weight to the wing. Now it does beautiful loops and stands straight when hoovering. I also have the Phoenix edge 120 and im hoping it fly's as well as the .46. Its all together just waiting for a motor. I have a super tigre .90 mounted in it now but i want to pick up at least a 2300 st for it. I hate planes that are under powered. Let us know how your maiden goes with your edge.
Dave
Old 12-02-2016, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by 3357 View Post
..................... I also have the Phoenix edge 120 and im hoping it fly's as well as the .46. Its all together just waiting for a motor. I have a super tigre .90 mounted in it now but i want to pick up at least a 2300 st for it. I hate planes that are under powered. Let us know how your maiden goes with your edge.
Dave
Dave,
I imagine you have seen the thread on the 65" Edge 120 were they talk about the balance point in the book being just the opposite of the 55" edge. Plane comes out dangerously tail heavy so they say. I'd bet your ST90 would fly the 65" plane just fine. At 10 lbs or so Hovering might be out of the question. I run 15X6 props on my ST90's. Had one on a 71"ish stick airplane that weighed in at 9lbs. It would hover, but had little left for pull out.

Anyway, good luck with it...

My 55" Edge made the trip from Illinois today. Now the question is, how long will it take me to put it together. I have not touched my Phoenix Hero in almost a year...I am hoping that I can just put this Edge together and be happy without modifying a bunch of stuff. At least it looks good enough that I won't have the desire to do a bunch of covering work.
Old 12-03-2016, 07:25 PM
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Yea Rick i know all about that. My 120 edge is extreamly tail heavy. Im sure my st 90 would fly it ok but i probably would have to add 2 lbs of weight to the nose to balsnce it.
Old 12-03-2016, 07:43 PM
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Fyi, when you go to install the horns on your ailerons you may want to change the horns on your servos to the oppisite side of what the instructions say. The reason is that when you go install the horns on the ailerons you will find allot more wood there to screw the horns in to the ailerons are not solid balsa. I ended up with xtra holes in my ailerons because i had to move the horns over to get enough wood to mount them properly.
Old 12-03-2016, 07:48 PM
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Went out and flew my edge again today. Perfect conditions. Was a good day.
Old 12-04-2016, 05:23 AM
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Originally Posted by 3357 View Post
Yea Rick i know all about that. My 120 edge is extreamly tail heavy. Im sure my st 90 would fly it ok but i probably would have to add 2 lbs of weight to the nose to balsnce it.
Without a doubt, if you have to add weight to the nose, there is no better way to do it than adding horse power...

Thanks for the tip on the aileron horn locations. I have made a note in my assembly manual so I don't forget.

Glad to here all went well for another flying day of the 55" Edge.
Old 12-04-2016, 05:50 PM
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Yea just point the servo horns toward the center of the plane. The instructions say to point them toward the center of the wing. Maybe they meant the center of the plane. I dont know but i just didnt want you to make the same mistake i did and end up with 2xtra holes in each wing. ....
Old 03-06-2017, 05:04 PM
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I actually just saw your question. I still never measured the CG. Based on my original marks, I would say it's close to 95mm. I'm running a Saito 82 and a 13-7 prop.

Originally Posted by 3357 View Post
Yea warhwk looks like you were having a good time that day. Do you know how far back your cg is ? They recommend 80 to 85mm. I reset mine to 88mm but haven't flown it yet. When i flew it the first time the cg was at 82 and i had to use up trim to keep the nose up and it came in pretty hot. Maybe better this time. Im going flying Saturday and Sunday so i will find out. Also curious what motor you are using in your Edge. Tks for the input............Dave
Old 08-07-2017, 06:17 PM
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I'll be getting me one of these when Tower gets them back in stock. I have a Saito 72 to drive it. I like the way warhwk's 82 pulls his, so may have to upgrade if the 72 doesn't do the trick for me. I do like some speed myself as well.
Old 08-01-2019, 05:01 AM
  #39  
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Default cowl

can you send me pictures of your cowl just want to know if i need to cut a hole out for the carburetor, thanks,


Originally Posted by warhwk View Post
Once the CG is moved back a bit from the recommended location, this Edge will flair nicely and also land slower than you might expect from such a small wing. I reduced my elevator throw to a point where it will just start to deviate during a high-speed loop with full up elevator. I have 3D rates available, but I rarely use them, this is not a good plane for that type of flying. The ailerons are small and I have a hard time keeping it from torque-rolling in a hover. She Knife-edges pretty well with just a touch of roll-coupling. Pitch is pretty neutral and varies depending on current CG. The inverted flat-spins are gorgeous. Take a look https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vz8mDiW93gM
Old 08-01-2019, 05:55 AM
  #40  
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Default edge 540

Dave if you can send me a pic of your cowl it would be appreciated just want to know if i need to cut a hole for the carburetor thanks

Originally Posted by 3357 View Post
Update.... After moving my cg to 87mm i am very happy with my edge. It flles great. Now the barrel rolls look like the plane is on a wire. Nice knife edge, crisp snap rolls and as well it seems like the overall speed increased. Still comes in pretty hot though . I like the plane alott......Dave
Old 08-01-2019, 04:46 PM
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Default Edge 540

Hello warhwk.... Is this model a:

Phoenix Model Edge 540 .46-.55 GP/EP ARF 55.5"?

Thanks in advance

Originally Posted by warhwk View Post

.
Old 02-11-2021, 11:57 AM
  #42  
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Default Weight of 540 55.5" Edge

Just started assembly of 540 with Saito 82. What final weight are you folks seeing. - especially the one using Saito 82. Also it was stated on the one with the 82 that the cg was estimated at 95mm! Seemed like a pretty far aft cg so was wondering if that had been verified. Thanks for any help you can give me. Sure looks like a well made plane. I mostly build scratch designs and would struggle to buy the materials for what this ARF cost. Bryan - Columbus IN
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Old 02-11-2021, 05:08 PM
  #43  
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I'm the one with the Saito 82. It flew at the recommended CG, but it landed a little hot and did not want to flair. Inverted flight took a lot of down trim.
I relocated the battery moving the CG approximately 10mm. It flew inverted completely hands off. Landing was now a dream with the ability to drag the tailwheel on landing. However... the elevator became MUCH more sensitive. Low rate became my high rate.
My advice is to fly it at the rear of the recommended CG, then adjust 5mm at a time until it will just fly inverted hands-off. If the elevator gets touchy, reduce throws or add expo as necessary.

She's been a favorite of mine for many years.
Old 02-12-2021, 11:57 AM
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[QUOTE=warhwk;12662895] "I'm the one with the Saito 82. It flew at the recommended CG, but it landed a little hot and did not want to flair. Inverted flight took a lot of down trim.
I relocated the battery moving the CG approximately 10mm. It flew inverted completely hands off. Landing was now a dream with the ability to drag the tailwheel on landing. However... the elevator became MUCH more sensitive. Low rate became my high rate.
My advice is to fly it at the rear of the recommended CG, then adjust 5mm at a time until it will just fly inverted hands-off. If the elevator gets touchy, reduce throws or add expo as necessary.

She's been a favorite of mine for many year" I am making some progress. My estimate is that the final weight will be around 90 oz so wing loading would be 23 oz/square foot if you include fuselage area between the wing which is how I usually calculate it. If you just consider just the wing area it is anout 26 oz/square foot. However, I feel that the plane is "tippy" more because there is no washout in the wing rather than the relatively high wing loading. Couple that with the tapered wing and it is pretty predictable that the wing tips will stall first. For packaging reasons plus improved cooling I am mounting the Saito 82 inverted so the valve covers and cylinder head will protrude from the bottom of the cowl. With a 90 degree adapter the muffler wll remain inside the cowl with a silicone discharge tube. While laying all of this out it does appear the striping on the cowl is about 1/2 inch low. Ugh! This is too bad since they did a really nice job painting and triming the cowl. Anyway I remain impressed with the overall quality of this ARF. Dont know how they do it for price - seems imposible.

Last edited by Bknaws; 02-12-2021 at 12:01 PM. Reason: Combined my submission with someone elses
Old 02-12-2021, 04:08 PM
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Default Correction to prior post

In my last post I had a big error in my caculation -- forgot to include weight of servos/battery/rec. Sorry. So the wing loading as I calculate it is about 26.5 oz/ square foot. So, yes pretty high wing loading. Definitely won't be a floater like my other planes that are in the 17-20 oz/square foot range.
Old 02-13-2021, 06:49 AM
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Being that this airplane has been designed for aerobatics washout is the last thing you would want. A few easy adjustments really help with the tip stalls. The first is to not run the CG too far forward. A forward CG will help with a perceived pitch sensitivity but will not reduce tip stalls. In fact it can make the situation worse. Using aileron differential will also help. A wing will stall when it exceeds maximum AOA for the particular airfoil at the speed in which it is being flown. The aileron dropping adds to this AOA so it's best to set the airplane up so that the downward motion of the ailerons is about 1/16" to 3/32" less then the upward motion. This will also eliminate adverse yaw when ailerons are applied. Other solutions require a bit more work. The idea is to get the inboard section of the wing to stall before the outboard. On my designs I do this mainly by having a sharper leading edge at the root of the wing then at the tip. Of course reducing weight anywhere you can pays off big. Can you get a lighter tail wheel assembly? How about a CF wing tube and landing gear? Is your battery pack too big? Can you do with a smaller fuel tank? Just selecting different equipment can save a fair amount of weight.
Old 02-13-2021, 08:54 AM
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Thanks for the response. My ears were burning. I was just starting to search for a carbon fiber wing tubes and landing gear. Any advice on sources would be appreciated. Like you suggested I am exploring every area to remove weight -- like 4.8 volt receiver pack vs 6 volt, material removal in engine mount structure, built in wooden motor mount to eliminate blind nuts and bolts, mini servo for throttle, locking prop nut so can eliminate double nuts, carbon fiber push rods/landing gear/wing tube. On the planes I have designed and built through the years light weight has always been the goal and the reductions are usually in small amounts in a lot of places. Yes the washout is not a thing you want if you are looking for snappy performance. I doubt that the full size 540s had any washout but not sure. Your comment on a sharper leading edge was interesting. Is the difference in sharpness noticeable or does a little difference go a long way? In my files I found an old article that suggested on a finished wing you could add a narrow sharp triangular "stall strip" extension, a few inches long, to the leading edge near the root to to make the root stall first. Or you can add it to the leading edge near the wing tip to make it more snappy. Wouldn't look good but I may experiment with the concept to see what I learn. I sounds like it is using the same principal as sharpening the leading edge. On cg location the information in this forum, and others as well, suggest that it needs to be pretty far aft. 87-95 mm from leading edge. The manual calls for 80-85 but folks say it is noticeably nose heavy and doggy in that range. I will probably start at 87 and work my way up. Since this design sounds like it is inherently nose heavy I am hopeful that I can adjust the cg by moving stuff around and not adding any weight. Thanks again for your advice and help.
Old 02-13-2021, 09:22 AM
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ZY hobby for the landing gear.

https://www.zyhobby.com/products/3k-...xtra-260-100cc


Ebay vendor for the wing tubes.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/25mm-3K-Car...Cclp%3A2334524




I just ordered from both these places to get CF parts for my 35% Edge.




Old 02-13-2021, 09:28 AM
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The LE radius trick was used on my F3A pattern design and actually works a bit too well as I need to force it to snap roll and into spin entries. Then again it is 1,300 sq. in. Of wing area at 10lbs even RTF.


Old 03-18-2021, 04:10 PM
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Have about completed the build and waiting on good weather to fly. I did several things to reduce weight -- smaller servos, carbon fiber landing gear and wing tube, removed a lot of wood from fuselage and motor mount area. Overall I saved about 8.5 oz and the plane ended up weighing 5 1/2 pounds. The wing loading end up being about 22.7 oz per square foot. Should be a good flier with the Saito 82. I plan to do the first flight with CG at 90 mm. Will post results after initial flight.
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