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New arfs I have recently tried.

Old 01-13-2022, 01:55 PM
  #51  
allanflowers
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In advance of the maiden flight, these are a few scale modification on the Zero - some additions to the LG pants, blacking out the screws holding the cowl and a little Kanji symbol on the side below the cockpit (means 'dragon').



Old 01-19-2022, 12:45 PM
  #52  
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The maiden flights on the Zero were this morning at the electric field in San Diego. I had brought the plane out on Sunday but only flew the Waco due to a crowded field, not all of which are experienced fliers. Today was better, with moderate winds more or less down the runway. First I tried two different props on the Waco, settling on the 13-6 APC rather than the Dynam 12-6 which would'nt even pull the plane through a loop with the 4s4000 battery. The APC is much better but the plane still hardly makes it over on a loop. I need to keep looking at other prop options but do not expect strong vertical performance with the Dynam supplied motor and ESC.
When the wind came up and from the NW, I did the maiden on the Zero. With the Hacker motor, it has lots of thrust and it leapt off the ground - after tracking fairly straight on the takeoff run. It tended to go left and climb but I was hesitant to trim it in the air. After a good landing and about 8 clicks of R aileron and 5 of Down elevator, I tried again. It turned out the elevator had to be trimmed back to zero and 2 more clicks of R did the job. On the same battery I landed, with one cell at 14% which is worrying. After cooling off, the cells are all at 30%.
Later on the bench, I have reduced the travel on aileron and elevator some - now that I know I am centered enough for landing, etc.
The model flies well but is a little too sensitive, especially in pitch. Maybe the reduced travel will do the job but if not, a little more weight in the nose could be needed.
It looks great and has drawn a lot of favorable comments in a crowd that is familiar with all the other offerings. I am looking forward to further tests (with the gear UP) but will have to wait for the weather to mellow.

Last edited by allanflowers; 01-19-2022 at 12:51 PM.
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Old 01-20-2022, 07:07 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by allanflowers View Post
The maiden flights on the Zero were this morning at the electric field in San Diego. I had brought the plane out on Sunday but only flew the Waco due to a crowded field, not all of which are experienced fliers. Today was better, with moderate winds more or less down the runway. First I tried two different props on the Waco, settling on the 13-6 APC rather than the Dynam 12-6 which would'nt even pull the plane through a loop with the 4s4000 battery. The APC is much better but the plane still hardly makes it over on a loop. I need to keep looking at other prop options but do not expect strong vertical performance with the Dynam supplied motor and ESC.
When the wind came up and from the NW, I did the maiden on the Zero. With the Hacker motor, it has lots of thrust and it leapt off the ground - after tracking fairly straight on the takeoff run. It tended to go left and climb but I was hesitant to trim it in the air. After a good landing and about 8 clicks of R aileron and 5 of Down elevator, I tried again. It turned out the elevator had to be trimmed back to zero and 2 more clicks of R did the job. On the same battery I landed, with one cell at 14% which is worrying. After cooling off, the cells are all at 30%.
Later on the bench, I have reduced the travel on aileron and elevator some - now that I know I am centered enough for landing, etc.
The model flies well but is a little too sensitive, especially in pitch. Maybe the reduced travel will do the job but if not, a little more weight in the nose could be needed.
It looks great and has drawn a lot of favorable comments in a crowd that is familiar with all the other offerings. I am looking forward to further tests (with the gear UP) but will have to wait for the weather to mellow.
Congratulations Allan. Build well done, maidens go well. Good job Sir. Video when you can?
Love to see a zero fly....
Aaron
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Old 01-26-2022, 05:19 PM
  #54  
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Thanks Aaron. I am not sure that I can do the video any time soon. Hard to fly and shoot at the same time. If I can get someone to help, maybe I can do it.
I flew the Waco and my Nieuport 17 today. The Nieuport had two good flights but the Waco had a somewhat rough landing. The engine mount became loosened up so I put the model back in the car. This afternoon at home, I tried to fix it but cannot make a positive report. The cowl is easy enough to pull off but the screws on the motor mount were not. Three of the machine screws came out okay but the fourth one would not, no matter WHAT I did. The screw just spun without coming out, even with extreme encouragement. Finally I had to take the x-acto knife and cut my way in through the foam to get at the area. Then I had to use a Dremel with a cutoff wheel on the last screw. This all made a mess of the inside of the cowl area and what I found in there was not good at all.
The little (and it is not a mm larger than necessary to bolt the motor on) plastic plate is glued directly into the foam. An examination of the glue pattern shows that less than 25 % of the surface had any glue on it. No wonder the plate came loose on what really wasn't that hard a landing.
The lack of any real firewall plus a criminally skimpy glue job is not a good recommendation for me. And I, after much thought, CANNOT recommend any more Dynam products. The combination of cheap design, poor quality on gluing the most critical component on the plane, plus really cheap hardware choices virtually made a simple repair undoable without practically killing the patient.
Keep in mind that the power provided by the provided motor and speed control will barely pull the model through a simple loop, even with a full throttle, diving head start. This performance issue plus the quality issues mentioned causes me to give this model a failing grade. It simply isn't really worth the trouble necessary.
The Maxford, on the other hand, is a pleasure to fly (other than the normal WW-I landing issues). And my Zero flew on Monday, with the retracts up for the first time. It is getting dialed in and looks like it will be fun to fly.
On the Waco, I slathered on a lot of epoxy and will try to get some more use out of this plane, albeit with only three of the four screws holding the motor in.


Old 01-27-2022, 06:08 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by allanflowers View Post
Thanks Aaron. I am not sure that I can do the video any time soon. Hard to fly and shoot at the same time. If I can get someone to help, maybe I can do it.
I flew the Waco and my Nieuport 17 today. The Nieuport had two good flights but the Waco had a somewhat rough landing. The engine mount became loosened up so I put the model back in the car. This afternoon at home, I tried to fix it but cannot make a positive report. The cowl is easy enough to pull off but the screws on the motor mount were not. Three of the machine screws came out okay but the fourth one would not, no matter WHAT I did. The screw just spun without coming out, even with extreme encouragement. Finally I had to take the x-acto knife and cut my way in through the foam to get at the area. Then I had to use a Dremel with a cutoff wheel on the last screw. This all made a mess of the inside of the cowl area and what I found in there was not good at all.
The little (and it is not a mm larger than necessary to bolt the motor on) plastic plate is glued directly into the foam. An examination of the glue pattern shows that less than 25 % of the surface had any glue on it. No wonder the plate came loose on what really wasn't that hard a landing.
The lack of any real firewall plus a criminally skimpy glue job is not a good recommendation for me. And I, after much thought, CANNOT recommend any more Dynam products. The combination of cheap design, poor quality on gluing the most critical component on the plane, plus really cheap hardware choices virtually made a simple repair undoable without practically killing the patient.
Keep in mind that the power provided by the provided motor and speed control will barely pull the model through a simple loop, even with a full throttle, diving head start. This performance issue plus the quality issues mentioned causes me to give this model a failing grade. It simply isn't really worth the trouble necessary.
The Maxford, on the other hand, is a pleasure to fly (other than the normal WW-I landing issues). And my Zero flew on Monday, with the retracts up for the first time. It is getting dialed in and looks like it will be fun to fly.
On the Waco, I slathered on a lot of epoxy and will try to get some more use out of this plane, albeit with only three of the four screws holding the motor in.

Hi AllanTrying to film and fly has lead to some bad experiences for me lol. Some of these imported products can sure be frustrating with hidden failure points for sure. The scale appearance and light wing loading certainly make them more sprightly in the air. And the molded in details are very attractive. Little marvels of flight. Thanks for sharing Allan.
Old 02-18-2022, 12:58 PM
  #56  
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I have been struggling with this model, to get it to fly well. The provided power system just doesn't give even marginal performance. So I ordered a new motor and speed control, installed in the plane and flew it today.
Power is much better, the loops are large and graceful and the plane can be flow slow too. The quality is still lacking and, after almost every flight, I am tightening up screws and bolts. The latest on that score is the fact that the landing gear comes loose, just flying around. I will break out the locktite
this afternoon.



Last edited by allanflowers; 02-18-2022 at 08:08 PM.
Old 03-11-2022, 02:22 PM
  #57  
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Update on these two models:
The Dynam Waco continues to disappoint with regard to quality issues. The canopy keeps flying up and nearly off, forcing me to land. I need to put a bunch of pins into the sides to keep this stupid part in place. The four magnets should do the job. They don't.
The flight today on the Zero was going well until I tried to land. At the electric field in San Diego near Sea World it is kind of a zoo, with dumb flyers never following the most basic rules. Today, after I yelled 'landing" and was coming out of the last turn, I see some other guy landing in front of me (NO announcement of landing). This forces me to deviate and try to land on the far side of the runway. I end up in the weeds, with my prop broke and one of the landing gear torn out. I do not know if this is repairable at all. I am REALLY angry, having been forced into this situation because some A##### didn't call out like the rules require. There are times when I break something on my own but this really fries me.
IF repairable, it will be a major tear up of the wing, and will never look right again. Maybe I can buy a whole new wing from Tower but that is its own nasty project since there was a lot of work to get the kit part to work in the first place.
ARGGGGG!


Old 03-11-2022, 03:43 PM
  #58  
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it's fixable. epoxy thne put pieces back together like a jig saw puzzel with maybe bracing from wood match stick or wood from a popcicle stick. slow cure epoxy is very strong. prolly be stronger than new.

the landing gear, not the prop

Last edited by capt1597; 03-11-2022 at 03:47 PM.
Old 03-11-2022, 03:56 PM
  #59  
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That will never work in this situation. Take a better look at the pix. End grain gluing is weak and there is no point in a bad repair that won't make it past the next landing. I will have to make hardwood rails that extend a rib in each direction, which will require removing a significant amount of wing sheeting.
Old 03-12-2022, 05:02 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by allanflowers View Post
That will never work in this situation. Take a better look at the pix. End grain gluing is weak and there is no point in a bad repair that won't make it past the next landing. I will have to make hardwood rails that extend a rib in each direction, which will require removing a significant amount of wing sheeting.
That's awful AllanBut gear tear out in arfs is one of the reasons I don't mess with airframes with retracts. Just such a weak point on these lightly built things as nice as they are. I have gone the route you lay out many times. Also just epoxy back the prices and chunk's like the other suggestion. I have had decent success with both methods. A weird thought on the subject....
Having a wing section made of printed plastic or sheet aluminum with hardwood ribs and formed in tracks for the retract rails it mount to. Then the outer and inner conventional wing sections carbon dowelled.
I always felt a " wing section" better built would transfer the unwanted upward energy of a hard landing or bounce and absorb it with out failing. And the more solid mount would take the reverse torque without pulling the forward mount rail out of it's reciept if we stub our toes of get forced ito land in the rough. Another problem with me. ( Heck I can miss the runway when I am all alone at our field lol..You seem like a better tinker than I am. I just moved on to biplanes with fixed gear and all my retract problems left the repair shop and never came back.
Just a thought x2Aaron-
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Old 03-12-2022, 07:27 AM
  #61  
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Believe me, I have been seriously thinking about getting models that don't have retracts. Ironically, that is all I used to fly, until the foamies and ARFs tempted me into the WW-I scene. They offered the entertainment of flaps and retracts, neither of which I had wanted to try previously. Of course they also handled takeoffs and landings better than my WW-I planes which had their own set of repair issues.
I will be looking into my stock of basswood and spruce (and sheet aluminum).
Old 03-12-2022, 09:52 AM
  #62  
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I concur on all points Brother! I dumbed down to fixed wire gear on any single seat fighter I still fly. 50/90 series stuff. Heavy motors and set ups They survive the landing, but not always the post touch down NOSE OVER.! Lmbo
Best
Aaron

Old 03-18-2022, 02:05 PM
  #63  
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Today, after dental surgery, I am tearing into the Zero's wing for a retract repair. I opened it up through 3 bays (just like the original kit designers SHOULD have). Tomorrow I will inventory my wood supply for the new rails to hold the retract unit. I will also have to fill in the outboard wing rib which has NO meat on it at all.


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Old 03-18-2022, 02:20 PM
  #64  
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They sure build for weight rather than strength. keep up the good work Sir!
Old 03-23-2022, 07:35 AM
  #65  
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The repairs are complete and I have new propellers (14x7E and a wood 14x6 for backup). I had to open up the wing and the fix is marginal. Later this week, we will see if it holds up.






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Old 03-24-2022, 01:48 PM
  #66  
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The repair held up fine. However, the OTHER side broke out, and it wasn't even a hard landing. After looking at the mess, I can see why. This was engineered with several small parts glued together - except the gluing wasn't done well (typical ARF construction I guess). This optimistic engineering did not work out for me.
I have the template for the part from the previous side so it won't be too bad - a few days nonetheless.


Old 03-26-2022, 02:50 PM
  #67  
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The repair is done, other than prettying it up, which I am afraid to do lest it becomes jinxed. Tomorrow I will test it out at the field.



Old 03-28-2022, 07:23 AM
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Four tries with the repaired gear on the Zero yesterday. The first flight was good (five minutes) but the left gear collapsed on the landing, which was not THAT bad. The unit did not pull out of the wood but the clevis popped off the retract tang and the gear folded over.
After adjustments, I tried it again - same result. More adjustment and the gear folded even before takeoff. Finally the last adjustment and I got a complete takeoff and landing, including a taxi back!
The Zero is rather twitchy right after takeoff - at low speed with the gear down. Otherwise it flies quite nicely. I am considering using less throw on ail and ele.
No pix today but maybe next time, if more successful flights.
I also got in a few flights with the Waco, which is nice to fly now with the new power system. I can do all the maneuvers I like with relative confidence. The high viz of this model is great.
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Old 04-15-2022, 12:39 PM
  #69  
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Four flights today on the Waco and Zero, two each. I now have over twenty flights on the Zero, the last eight of which has had no issues with the landing gear. It still is a bit twitchy after takeoff, with the gear down, but otherwise is very nice to fly. Landings are still difficult for me and I need to carry some speed into the landing or it bounces. If I take the mental approach of doing a touch and go, it is great when it does settle in. The Waco has flown really well with the new motor./speed control. It must have at least thirty flights now, most with the new more powerful motor.
If I get bored with these planes, I will have to look at the availability of some other arfs
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Old 04-15-2022, 02:50 PM
  #70  
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Any ideas for an ARF? I would consider Phoenix, Seagull, Naca, etc. At this point, electric 4S.
Old 04-16-2022, 02:11 PM
  #71  
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AJ aircraft

extreme flight aircraft

you asked
Old 04-18-2022, 07:32 AM
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Hi Allan
What about assembling a Phoenix 60 Waco. I just bought one and mounted a new UMS 115 gas radial. My brother in law owns one with a 90 cc twin gas two stroke. He has flown his about five flights. I have just gotten mine back from a trusted full scale aircraft builder who also builds RC airplanes. I bought mine assembled and flown with an electric motor by the previous owner and assembler.
The plane has had some issues as referenced on an RCU forum. A small representative number of these Phoenix arfs have allegedly failed in flight. Un happy owners have indicated poor glue ups at the factory have lead to the failures they experienced.
I have followed your threads on the Waco and zero you have assembled
I find your writings through and thoughtful.

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Old 04-19-2022, 07:20 AM
  #73  
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AJ aircraft seems to have a good selection and sizes of aerobatic models.

The Phoenix Waco is appealing to my interest in historic biplanes, especially the 63" model which probably could fit in my car without removing the wings.

Thanks for the ideas!
Old 04-19-2022, 08:18 AM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by allanflowers View Post
AJ aircraft seems to have a good selection and sizes of aerobatic models.

The Phoenix Waco is appealing to my interest in historic biplanes, especially the 63" model which probably could fit in my car without removing the wings.

Thanks for the ideas!

This is the self "grenading" model. No backseat carry lol.
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