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New arfs I have recently tried.

Old 09-26-2021, 12:29 PM
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allanflowers
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Default New arfs I have recently tried.

I want to open a new thread about some ARF’s I have experienced. I will start with the Phoenix Dauntless, a 59” arf which is truly appealing and very beautiful.

Reduced to one comment – DON’T.

This horrible RC plane is very attractive and quite unflyable. If you DARE get the airspeed down too much, you will be very sorry – as the pretty thing snaps violently into the ground. I do not know whether it is a wing stall, an elevator stall or a tip stall – it really doesn’t matter. The black garbage bag is due for use.

I deeply resent the four or five weeks I had wasted on this flawed piece of crap. Built completely according to the book, it comes out well over 8 pounds with battery. This wing loading is untenable – end of story.

Maybe some building genius will be able to dump a couple of pounds from the thing and make it viable. Please tell us all how you managed to do this.



Old 09-26-2021, 05:08 PM
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Sounds like you've never flown a high wing loading airframes before,, you're description is really pilot error not a design issue,,, 8 pounds is nothing for a plane that size in the hands of an experienced pilot,, keep the speed up next time,,, good luck
Old 09-26-2021, 08:12 PM
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I have flown other highly loaded planes over the years. Many of my own designs, especially scale, have been overweight (guess I have trouble lifting the brush when it comes to scale detail. Nonetheless, this model was very bad in the suddenness and unpredictability of its control loss. Perhaps it is the small tail surfaces combined with the tapered wings (and high loading). When it went down, the airspeed was still pretty high and the maneuver mild. Maybe with more altitude it could have been saved. Still, I want nothing to do with such a finicky model and I think people might want to know about this model's nasty tendency.
While on the subject, I would also report that the retracts are a real pain and very sloppy. The model's general fit and finish is excellent.
Old 09-27-2021, 02:09 AM
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Don't get an AT-6 either then,, they have the same tip stall at low speed tendencies
Old 09-27-2021, 04:31 AM
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Originally Posted by allanflowers View Post
I have flown other highly loaded planes over the years. Many of my own designs, especially scale, have been overweight (guess I have trouble lifting the brush when it comes to scale detail. Nonetheless, this model was very bad in the suddenness and unpredictability of its control loss. Perhaps it is the small tail surfaces combined with the tapered wings (and high loading). When it went down, the airspeed was still pretty high and the maneuver mild. Maybe with more altitude it could have been saved. Still, I want nothing to do with such a finicky model and I think people might want to know about this model's nasty tendency.
While on the subject, I would also report that the retracts are a real pain and very sloppy. The model's general fit and finish is excellent.
I sort of gave up on scale warbirds. I have and have watched one of the best rc pilots I know lose many to "pilot error". Sort of hard to judge the planes behavior and stall speed from a distance with no in the seat feel and warnings. RC warbirds are beautiful but tricky Sounds like you just got caught in a low speed trap.
Hang in there if repairs are ok lol. I just keep mine at home and enjoy others that risk actually flying them.
Old 09-28-2021, 07:54 AM
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Next are some comments on the Maxford 60” Nieuport 17 - another frustrating experience, (but keep reading).

I used some old parts from a very tired and recently retired 1400mm FMS T-28. The motor, speed control and most of the servos from this post WWII plane were pressed into action for this early WW-I model. This should not have worked, at least not very well.

The frustration came from the building (“assembly” to be more correct). Fishing the rudder and elevator pull-pulls through the fuselage is extremely difficult. Anything that can be done to expedite this effort is worth the trouble. I don’t know why the designers can’t take this into account by planning a little longer plastic tubing for the lines. Also the huge, overly-sticky decals are not easy - will leave you angry and ready to trash the whole effort. If you survive these steps, you may have a chance at a good RC model.

That is if you discard all of the flawed rigging hardware provided in the box. PLEASE start over with some good Dubro/Sullivan or GreatPlanes clevises. The Chinese kit-provided items will not HOLD, even with a full 1/4” of thread engagement, which is hardly acceptable for the rigging of a biplane. This is proof of criminal culpability in my mind – although, in the end, the thing flys rather well with decent hardware - partly due to its under five pound weight (even with a 4s4000 Lipo).
These first photos show undercarriage mods but the kit-provided tail skid.






Old 09-28-2021, 12:39 PM
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I should correct the last post: the prop is a Master Airscrew 14-6, not an APC. Also, the plane as photographed, was before any flights and still with the flawed rigging clevises. At one embarrassing point, the model was blown off the bench by an unexpected gust, doing a little damage but, fortunately, exposing the below standard clevises.
Old 09-30-2021, 07:36 AM
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The other thing you may want to do is deal with the WW-I scale-correct tail skid. If you are flying off dirt or grass it may work out but, if you are like me and dealing with a paved strip, you may want to bite the bullet and go for a steerable tail wheel. That is what I came to do and it is a miracle compared to the miserable wire skid. I skipped incremental steps and went straight to a separate mini-servo driven pull-pull set up using a 40 size steerable tail wheel from the local hobby store. Even with the unfavorable link setups due to having to deal with the long Maxford supplied rudder arms, using the shortest arms on the servo and the longest on the tail wheel – it steers pretty good. I would have liked less movement on the wheel (vs the rudder) but the ground handling is okay nonetheless.



The provided wire landing gear looks bad and lacks suspension. Since the wheels are way forward, a landing bounce is hard to avoid with an unyielding gear. I added wood sections on the wire for more of a scale look. The added suspension is very basic. A new axle (a little heavier) was attached at the center with some kevlar cord wrapped and CA’d to the existing wire. Some small brass plates near the ends were soldered on for rubber bands. This suspension works well and is about right in terms of “give”. I tend to go stiffer rather than too soft and this works well. I also installed some diagonal bracing wires for function and scale appearance.

Aside from the tail wheel, the plane looks good and seems fairly scale accurate. I love the size of the model (large and easy to see) and the size of the historic plane (tiny and personal, even intimate). Not being a very skilled pilot when it comes to using the rudder, I programmed in about 20% rudder-aileron mixing and this helps. Being a bigger model than I am accustomed to, it needs a bit of space to make the turns. The motor and speed control from the T-28 (a 56” foamie monoplane) is plenty strong and gives reasonable confidence with a two blade Master Airscrew 14-6 prop. I haven’t seen any tendencies toward tip stall but, at this light wing loading and with the wing configuration, it would not be expected. Nor is any Dutch Roll evident which is good because I am using an old Rx and aileron differential is not so easy.



Initially I passed on the Maxford product because the price gets up there fast with any options. Using parts I already have for major components made it more palatable for me. I did get the optional machine gun. With about six flights on it, things look good for the Maxford N-17.








Old 09-30-2021, 08:27 AM
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One further note: The wheels and tires provided are nice looking but may not hold up. On the first taxi test, one tire started coming off. I redid them with some epoxy to keep the foam in place. There is no rim on the wheel to help keep things in place.
Since then, they have functioned okay but I will be holding my breath. Wheels this size are hard to find.
Old 10-03-2021, 08:18 AM
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Would you recommend buying one of these for my ten-year-old son?

He has a birthday very soon and I am interested in buying RC plane for him. But have a lot of doubts...
Old 10-03-2021, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Luci93 View Post
Would you recommend buying one of these for my ten-year-old son?

He has a birthday very soon and I am interested in buying RC plane for him. But have a lot of doubts...
You'd do better to take the money you'd spend, open the nearest window, and toss it out.....
Seriously.
None of the model airplanes discussed in this thread are anything close to "trainers", no matter what the age of your Son is. If you, and most importantly HE, are serious about the hobby of flying remote controlled model airplanes the best thing you could do would be to put good ol Google to work for you, searching up "getting started with the RC model airplane hobby" or some such then read and follow the million hits that produces.
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Old 10-03-2021, 12:39 PM
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I would not recommend any WW-I arf as a first plane. Nor should you start with a WW-II plane. Start with a high wing trainer and get into it gradually. If you can find a used plane with all the gear necessary, that might be good. Definitely find a club where there are friendly guys and people who do training. Before that, look into a flight-sim which can use the actual RC transmitter. With something like that, the early crashes don't cost anything.
Ten years old is a good time to start but go slow and don't expect too much.
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Old 10-04-2021, 01:44 PM
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Alright. Will do. Thanks!
Old 10-04-2021, 01:45 PM
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Hmm... RC club. That's an option I did not think about.

Thank you for your idea!

Will post here as well if we will obtain something and with what we will start our first flights.
Old 10-05-2021, 07:31 AM
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https://www.modelaircraft.org/club-finder

You will need AMA membership to fly anyway.
Old 10-09-2021, 11:48 AM
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Another flight on the Nieuport 17 this morning. Takeoff was great, very little tendency to go left and plenty of lift for takeoff. The plane is easy to control other than it does take a lot of real estate for turns. Also I am having to put in a little elevator to get it to come around inspite of 20% mixing -ail>rudder. I think I will add more mixing to help this.
Landing was complicated by some gusts out of the north but I got it down okay, albeit with an extra bounce or two. Still, any landing that I can taxi back from is good.
Old 10-14-2021, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by allanflowers View Post
Another flight on the Nieuport 17 this morning. Takeoff was great, very little tendency to go left and plenty of lift for takeoff. The plane is easy to control other than it does take a lot of real estate for turns. Also I am having to put in a little elevator to get it to come around inspite of 20% mixing -ail>rudder. I think I will add more mixing to help this.
Landing was complicated by some gusts out of the north but I got it down okay, albeit with an extra bounce or two. Still, any landing that I can taxi back from is good.
On the subject of ARF's, I have been looking at easy-to-see foamies but not much is available these days, with all the big ships waiting off the California ports to unload. One model I had seen and liked was the Dynam 1270mm Waco in bright yellow. I don't expect that much from Dynam but have had a couple of their products that were okay, although not fancy. Generally the instructions are very minimal but, if one is patient and reasonably experienced, that is okay.
No one had this model and it didn't look good for me but finally I found one at General Hobbies (never had heard of them before) and took a chance. The price was decent and they indicated they had it in stock.
Four or five days later and it has arrived, in perfect condition. I am stoked and will report soon on it after I get it together.
Old 10-14-2021, 07:45 PM
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The problem with aileron to rudder mixing is that the rudder comes back to neutral when you let off of the ailerons. With some airplanes you just need to become more familiar with applying rudder manually for coordinated turns. Aileron differential will also help as without it you are most likely getting some adverse yaw which works against your mix.
Old 10-14-2021, 08:21 PM
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Good point about the rudder returning to neutral when the ail stick is released. On differential, I always work to get as much mechanical differential as I can but have been lazy about using two channels to get more that way.
Old 10-15-2021, 03:43 AM
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Mechanical is fine, you just need to offset the servo arms to get the different throws. If the servo is mounted in the bottom of a wing just move a slide or two towards the leading edge.
Old 10-15-2021, 07:21 AM
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The arm on the aileron is important too - more differential when the ail arm pickup is toward the rear, not quite in line with the hinge center.
Old 10-15-2021, 08:35 AM
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Your reports on these ARFs are not far from how I would report my experiences with ARFs. I have learned from the number of ARFs I had compared to the models I have built, that it is simpler to build from the kit and correct my own mistakes than dealing with either a design flaw or production error built into an ARF, then having to gather and replace all the useless hardware that comes with them.

Thank goodness for the short kit industry and Balsa USA for keeping the option to build still available. I looked pretty hard at getting the Maxford Newport, but after adding up the costs and the fear of dealing with issues in a half built plane, decided to go with the 1/6 Balsa USA option.
Old 10-17-2021, 11:00 AM
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This was posted in another place but belongs here:

The Dynam Waco I am currently working on has that issue you mentioned (sitting in a container for weeks on end). Although actually rather well packed, I thought, the tail of the fuse was distorted. I tried a heat gun (not successful) and hot water (a little better) but could not get the end straight enough to avoid the entire fin/rudder from being crooked (I don't need THAT much right rudder even on takeoff).
I took an exacto and cut the last two inches off, sanded on a corrective bevel and epoxied the thing back onto the fuselage. Not very pretty but, with the decals, it really won't show.
Old 10-17-2021, 11:07 AM
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I have got more into this project, after repairing the tail section which was distorted.
The cabanes were raw metal and the wing struts were black. I painted them yellow which I think will look better and more to scale. Also, I painted everything with Pledge Acrylic Floor Finish (same as "Future") and it makes the color much richer and now has a bit of a sheen. This also helps seal down any tapes or decals.
I also made a Waco sticker for the wing rather than use the Dynam one. It is just printed on label paper and is a bit wrinkly.

Old 10-18-2021, 02:59 PM
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Here are two progress photos of the Waco. I won't drag everybody through the obvious build traumas (struggles with hardware, lack of decent instructions, etc.). So far, however, I like this model. Hopefully when the battery gets here late this week and I can balance the plane and go for a maiden.



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