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Flaps on Great Planes Cessna 182

Old 05-21-2002, 02:47 PM
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cassio
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Default Flaps on Great Planes Cessna 182

I'd like to buy an airplane nearest of the real aircraft as possible. I've seen some GP182 pictures here in this site, but I'm in doubt:
Do GP Cessna 182 comes with Flap? If no, can I modify it(is it dificult)? If no yet, would it fly (and land) fine with flapperons?
Thank you in advance.
Old 05-21-2002, 04:43 PM
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NCBrit
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Default Flaps on Great Planes Cessna 182

The Great Planes Cessna does not come with flaps. There is a larger Top Flight Gold Edition kit, which does have flaps, but this is a much larger plane, and requires a lot of building time.

One of the members on here modified his GP Cessna for flaps. Try searching thorough the threads in this ARF section. I think it is in here.

I seem to remember that the modification he made was fairly simple, just needed to cut the trailing edge off, glue in some stock balsa, and add some flaps.

My Cessna flys fine without flaps. Although I must admit I would like to try them myself. Landing should be a bit easier with flaps. The Cessna does approach quite fast, and you should keep the speed up to avoid a stall. Flaps will probably change this.
Old 05-21-2002, 05:45 PM
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Default Flaps on Great Planes Cessna 182

If you have a computer radio you could simply setup the stock Cessna with flaperons which allows your ailerons to drop down like flaps either with the flip of a switch or the knob. All the time keeping control because the ailerons will still function as normal just in a dropped down position. I have used it on a couple planes and it works fine. Flaps are fun to play with ill admit but this system requires no modifications to the plane itself.
Old 05-21-2002, 07:20 PM
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Default Flaps on Great Planes Cessna 182

I wouldnt try flaperons on the Cessna. It has a very violent tip stall without using them. Not only this, but the wing is tapered, and the ailerons are inset on the outer half of the wing only. Using them for flaperons could have some quite bad adverse effects.

Having said this, I have mine set up for flaperons/spoilerons at the moment, so I can test the effects. Testing of such things should always be done at a safe altitude. I have also programmed a kill switch for the flaperons, so I can return them to neutral quickly. Next time I go flying, I am going to test them out.
Old 05-21-2002, 07:43 PM
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Default Ok.

Thank you, Badge and Brett.
Brett, after the test, send us your comments about it, please.
Old 05-21-2002, 08:49 PM
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Mike Bogh
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Default Flaps on Great Planes Cessna 182

Hideho all,

A few months ago I purchased a video from the RC Video production guy. It featured adding flaps to the Hangar 9 Cessna.
Actually, it is a series of three videos that goes step by step from measuring and cutting to installing the servos to a flight test. I seem to recall on the same video he installs lights on the plane as well.
The videos are about $6.00, and he will ship the whole set for the same shipping as one.
Anyway, I'm sure your LHS sells them and could probably get you the phone number for you to call.

Definatly worth the $$ if you want to add flaps, when I get around to assembling mine, I;ll be adding flaps for sure.

Good luck,

Mike
Old 05-22-2002, 12:07 AM
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Default Flaps on Great Planes Cessna 182

Thank you all...
Old 05-23-2002, 11:38 AM
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Default Flaps on Great Planes Cessna 182

Ok, I tried the flaperons/spoilerons last night.

I started at a safe altitiude, and cut the throttle. First off, I activated 100% flap, which dropped the ailerons to their full travel. The nose didnt move, but the aircraft rolled a little to the right. I tried to correct with left aileron, but there was very little roll control. I switched off the flaps, and once again had full control of the aircraft.

Second try with 100% flap, I tried a stall. The aircraft entered a spin, which I held for a couple of turns with only full up elevator. I released the elevator, and the flaps, and had full control again.

I tried a few more times with about 50% flap deployment. With this amount of flap, the right roll was almost un-noticable. (this can probably be mixed out by deploying a little less flap on the left aileron) and the aircraft stayed under control all the time while the flaps were deployed. The plane still tip stalls, and enters a spin if you continue to hold up elevator, but the stall speed is much slower.

Spoilers had similar results, right roll, but with a severe drop of the nose, as you would expect.

I flew a few circuits with flaps at neutral, and unfortunately happened to deadstick on a low pass. I was out of runway to just land, and out of space to turn around and come back. I turned the plane around, coming in for an upwind approach, and just about made the runway when I stalled and damaged it slightly. The wing came off, and some of the formers pulled away from the fuselage side. The cowl had a large dent in it which pushed out fairly easily. It's a fairly easy repair, so I will be flying it again at the weekend.

I am going to adjust the mix for the flaps to remove the right roll tendency, and try some more stalls with flaps deployed. The plane tip stalls without any flap anyway, so I dont think that deploying flap is going to make much difference with the tip stall tendency, but landing speed will be much slower. I will post my results in this thread.
Old 05-23-2002, 12:00 PM
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Default Flaps on Great Planes Cessna 182

Ok, Brett. Your experiences are valious to us, but be carefull. We want see you flying the 182 for a long time... Other thing: My english is a little poor, and excuse my ignorance, but: How works(and how to build) Spoilers? May be my Six Channel Futaba do not implement it...
thank you.
Old 05-23-2002, 12:49 PM
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Default Flaps on Great Planes Cessna 182

What model is your Transmitter Cassio?
Take it easy out there Brett don't loose the plane in the name of science .
Old 05-23-2002, 12:58 PM
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Default Flaps on Great Planes Cessna 182

I modified my GP Cessna to have flaps. Not at all difficult. I simply cut them out at the same line as the ailerons then added balsa to make the LE and TE of the flap and wing, respectively.

They really look sharp on the model and are truly functional. Besides, greasing in a Cessna without flaps isn't the same.

I didn't see the ModelSport video. But you can make flaps without it.

Good luck. I'd post pics, but they are on my other computer.

Regards,
Scott
Old 05-23-2002, 01:53 PM
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Default Flaps on Great Planes Cessna 182

Badge, my radio is a FUTABA-6XAS
Old 05-23-2002, 02:52 PM
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Default Flaps on Great Planes Cessna 182

Cassio, my radio is a Futaba 8U. When I switch on the flaperon function, the channel 5 knob can make the ailerons go down or up. Both ailerons down = flaps, both ailerons up = spoilers. I think your 6X will do the same.
Old 05-23-2002, 03:10 PM
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Default Flaps on Great Planes Cessna 182

OK, Brett. Tonight, when I arrive at home, I'll check if my radio get do it. I guess it doesn't, cause I did read all the manual when I bought it, and I don't remember that. Tomorrow morning I'll tell it for you here...
Thank you.
Old 05-23-2002, 03:55 PM
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Default Flaps on Great Planes Cessna 182

Yeah, in your manual it will tell you how to set them up.
Old 05-24-2002, 10:26 AM
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Default Flaps on Great Planes Cessna 182

What page, Badge? I did search, yesterday, but I didn't find... I wonder if is it there with another nomenclature?!
Old 05-24-2002, 02:32 PM
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Default Flaps on Great Planes Cessna 182

Cassio, this is from the online .pdf version of the 6xas manual. It was on page 30

The Flaperon mixing function uses two servos to individually control two ailerons,
combining the aileron function with the flap function. Both ailerons can be raised and lowered
simultaneously for a flap effect. Of course, aileron function, where the two controls move in
different directions, is also performed. The down travel of the left and right ailerons can be
adjusted, so you can also get a differential effect. (Left and right flap travel are adjusted
individually in the ATV menu.) To take advantage of the flaperon mixing function, you’ll need
to connect the right aileron servo to CH1 (AIL) and the left aileron servo to CH6 (FLP).

You can combine the flaperon function with the airbrake function (ABRK), to get steeper
descents without building up airspeed. This is very convenient for making short approaches on
small fields.

Please note that you may only use one function from flaperon, elevon, or V-tail at a time.
The one you activate overrides the others. If you need V-tail with a flaperon model, use the
programmable mixers (PMXI & PMX2) to program in the V-tail function.

Setting up the Flaperon function
1. Use the up or down arrow keys to select the FLPR window.
2. When first accessed, the flaperon function is inhibited (INH). Press the
CURSOR key to get to the activation menu. The INH indicator will flash on and off.
3. Now press the (+) key to activate the flaperon function. At this time, the ON indicator will
blink on and off.
4. Next you may set aileron differential. Aileron differential means
that one aileron has more travel in one direction than the other
direction. Normally the down travel is reduced to about half of
the up travel, especially on slower-flying models.
Pressing the CURSOR key one time causes the large sign in front of the number to blink.
You may reduce the down travel by selecting the minus (–) sign. If you choose 0% down,
the ailerons will move up only. This is preferred over reducing the up travel.
5. Pressing the CURSOR key again moves to the differential setting number (the percent sign
should now be flashing). For the 100% value, the up and down travel are both the same.
Reducing to less than 100% causes less travel. 50 - 75% is a good starting value, but observe
your model in flight to fine tune this setting. If you wish to return to 100%, press both the
(+) and (–) keys simultaneously.
Old 05-24-2002, 02:45 PM
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Default Flaps on Great Planes Cessna 182

Ok. Brett, really it is there. The problem is that: I was looking for 'Spoilers'. Then it's all right. It's just to set the radio up with 'elevons'.
Other question: What are the elevon effects? I know Flap/Flapperons increase the lift. What about elevon? Do it increase lift too, or just increase the drag?
Old 05-24-2002, 03:34 PM
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Default Flaps on Great Planes Cessna 182

Flaperons on barndoor type ailerons are a BAD idea.

Flaperons are really menat for strip ailerons that span the entire length (or most of it) of the wing. What you're essentially doing is increasing the camber of the airfoil to create more lift (and drag) for a given AoA, which will allow you to fly slower.

When you use flaperons on barndoor type ailerons, you're actually creating a wash-in condition - wing tip having a higher AoA than the wing root. This is very dangerous as it encourage tip stalling at slow speeds. "Spoilerons" are not much better in that while you increase wash-out, you're also increasing drag while destoying lift. Good for faster descends but might actually increase your landing speed.

I strongly suggest doing what Mike suggested and cut separate inboard flaps and add a couple more servos. You'll be much happier and fly safer with the results.
Old 05-24-2002, 04:29 PM
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Default Flaps on Great Planes Cessna 182

Originally posted by Volfy
Flaperons on barndoor type ailerons are a BAD idea.

Flaperons are really menat for strip ailerons that span the entire length (or most of it) of the wing. What you're essentially doing is increasing the camber of the airfoil to create more lift (and drag) for a given AoA, which will allow you to fly slower.

When you use flaperons on barndoor type ailerons, you're actually creating a wash-in condition - wing tip having a higher AoA than the wing root. This is very dangerous as it encourage tip stalling at slow speeds. "Spoilerons" are not much better in that while you increase wash-out, you're also increasing drag while destoying lift. Good for faster descends but might actually increase your landing speed.

I strongly suggest doing what Mike suggested and cut separate inboard flaps and add a couple more servos. You'll be much happier and fly safer with the results.
Thats what I was trying to say. The GP Cessna already has a bad tendency to tipstall. I was woried about worsening this by using flaperons, but my initial tests seem to indicate that the tip stall is no worse with them than it is without them. Further testing will clarify this.

I think the tapered trailing edge has some effect here. Maybe making the AoA at the tip less than the AoA at the root position of the aileron. The root of the aileron is closer to the middle of the wing than it is the root of the wing. So I think the greatest AoA is close to the center of the wing, and not the tip as you would normally get when barndoor style ailerons are used as flaps. Does this make sense?
Old 05-24-2002, 05:15 PM
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Default Flaps on Great Planes Cessna 182

What means AoA, please?!
Old 05-24-2002, 05:53 PM
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Default Flaps on Great Planes Cessna 182

Originally posted by cassio
What means AoA, please?!
Angle of Attack
Old 05-24-2002, 06:10 PM
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Default Flaps on Great Planes Cessna 182

AoA = Angle of Attack.

Brett, I think I know what you're trying to say. Yes, if the wing panels already have wash-out built into them, then it is entirely possible that at straight level flight, the highest AoA would be at the inboard end of the ailerons; therefore, stalling might occur first at there. Even if this is the case, once stalling begins and the wing looses lift and drops, the wing tips will quickly stall next instead of the wing root. This is still very bad.

If your goal is to experiment with flaperons and spoilerons to see what they do, then by all means try 'em out. Just be very careful about it, and bear in mind that you're not improving landing speed, if that is your ultimate goal.

No full-scale airplanes that I know of employ the this type of setup, except perhaps the steath bomber. But those suckers are inherently unstable and require computer-controlled fly-by-wire to stay afloat. Plus the SB's "spoilerons" have split panels that extend both up and down simultaneously, and are in the truist sense of the term "spoilerons".

In any case, I don't think the wing taper has anything to do with what we're are talking about.
Old 05-27-2002, 02:54 PM
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Default Flaps on Great Planes Cessna 182

Excuse-me for basic questions, but: what means 'wash-out', too? My English-Portuguese dictionary doesn't have such term...
Thank you.
Old 05-28-2002, 11:05 AM
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Default Flaps on Great Planes Cessna 182

Cassio, I found the following description of washout here:

http://www.gpsoftware.com/glossary_w.htm

looks like a good place to look up other aeronautical terms if you want to.

Washout = An intentional twist in the wing, causing the wing tips to have a lower angle of attack than the wing root. In other words, the trailing edge is higher than the leading edge at the wing tips. Washout helps prevent tip stalls.

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