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GP DR-1 Fokker set up & sugestions?

Old 01-14-2004, 01:31 AM
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BULL-RCU
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Default GP DR-1 Fokker set up & sugestions?

Just purchased a GP fokker DR-1 I plan on painting the monokote like a saw in one of the flying magazines... Not sure of color yet.... and not sure of engine size. Was thinking 91 fs probably magnium or saito. I fly using rudder and alerons so not worried about that problem I have read the threads... Will play with the plane in that aspect when I get it in the air... Looking to see engine / cg / and throw combos... Also an sites that have pics to see color combos that look nice.... Any help or sugestions are welcome... If you have experience talk to me...
Old 01-14-2004, 07:57 AM
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MajorTomski
 
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Default RE: GP DR-1 Fokker set up & sugestions?

Have a look around here for some paint ideas

http://www.wwi-models.org/Images/Hustad/DrI/index.html

HTH
Tom
Old 01-14-2004, 10:00 AM
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Default RE: GP DR-1 Fokker set up & sugestions?

The plane is very elevator sensitive at speed. You can adjust the LG wing to be at 0 or slightly negative VS the almost -10 negative to help. Use lots of expo and a little less elevator throw than that shown in the manual. I would recommend a digital servon on the elevator also. It tends to hunt due to sensitivity in the centering of the elevator. If you do a loop it will tend to climb after the loop, a dive and it will try to dive slightly with neutral elevator. Make sure you put some wing tip skids on it. No matter how good you are the wing tips are going to scrape the ground. Typical senario is after perfect landing especiall if a wheel landing, wheels hit a small hole or rock, the wings then rock back and forth increasing till a wing tip scraps the ground, the wings then rock back and forth till the plane slows down. Adding rudder during the wing rocking will not steer the plane, in fact it may go the opposite direction as rudder causes the wing tip to dig into the ground deeper and then the plane swings toward that tip. So I learned not to land too close to the flight line as it always seems to veer toward it when near it, and away from it when not.

The most important thing is not to use the CA hinges on the rudder. Mine tore off and the plane spun in. One of these days I'll get around to rebuilding it. It's an impressive and fun aircraft to fly. The small loops and tight turns are impressive.
Old 01-14-2004, 11:44 PM
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Default RE: GP DR-1 Fokker set up & sugestions?

Thanks for the info... I'm going to paint mine so have some time yet ... but looking for all the info I can get and going to make this a beauty..
Old 01-15-2004, 12:09 AM
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Default RE: GP DR-1 Fokker set up & sugestions?

Balance the plane toward the front of the suggested CG. it will fly much better. It will do very tight inside loops, but outside loops are a no no. Flies so so inverted but leave room to roll out cause it will not pull out with an outside loop unless you are full throttle with a .91 on the nose. It actually rolls pretty decent and you can do continuous rolls and even rolling cirlcles . Does excellant flat (rudder) turns but don't get too slow cause it likes to pitch nose down with lots of rudder application. Plane will knife edge. Mine will snap to the left but not to right very well. Does excellant spins and recovers quickly, makes a really neat whoosing noise as it is spinning and falling. I agree with the post concerning using a good digital servo on the tail, centers the elevator better. Put some thread locker on all the cabane and interplane strut mounting screws and check them every couple of flights. DO NOT use the Great Planes hinge material, buy some Radio South CA hinges, they are much better. The GP hinges will fail, usually the mylar and the weave seperate.

take care
zonk
Old 01-15-2004, 09:14 AM
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Default RE: GP DR-1 Fokker set up & sugestions?

The GP hinges will fail, usually the mylar and the weave seperate.
Well not in my case. They just tore like paper. I wouldn't use anybodys CA hinge. Use pinned hinges or the swivel flex hinges that require a round hole for installation. If the rudder falls off you don't have a fin to keep the plane straight. Use the strongest hinge you feel comfortable with installing.
Old 01-15-2004, 10:48 AM
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Default RE: GP DR-1 Fokker set up & sugestions?

Hey Bull,

Here is a photo of the last tripe that I built. It was an Arizona Model Aircrafters that I painted in this scheme found on the cover of a book titled "The Fighters" by Thomas R. Funderburk. The other photo shows four of the five tripes that we built & wanted to fly in formation. Unfortunately, this never happened due to problems with the airplanes & pilot errors...
Old 01-15-2004, 02:38 PM
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Default RE: GP DR-1 Fokker set up & sugestions?

I thought the tripe in Waldo Pepper looked good. It is sort of like that one and really easy to see in the air.
Old 01-15-2004, 02:40 PM
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Default RE: GP DR-1 Fokker set up & sugestions?

hope the pic makes it this time
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Old 01-15-2004, 10:43 PM
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Default RE: GP DR-1 Fokker set up & sugestions?

Howdy, Bull-RCU

I've been flying the Great Planes Fokker DR1 Triplane for the past year and a half, and have really enjoyed it. Mine's been to Dayton Ohio as a part of the Dawn Patrol 2003, as well has the HAWKS Four Cycle Rally and the GCRCC Flying Circus. It's flown on asphalt and grass, and the covering has been modified to emulate the original Rotary Triplane at Old Rhinebeck. Following are some random thoughts on the bird.

The key to the GP Triplane seems to be making absolutely certain that you do not attempt to fly it tailheavy - even a little bit! I can assure you that it was one of the most interesting flights an aeroplane ever took me for on the maiden flight, 'til I got enough weight in the cowling to matter!!!

You're probably spot-on with the .91 engine. Mine uses the O.S. 70, and while it's plenty of power, there isn't a ton of reserve, and my opinion has always been that if you're going to add noseweight to a plane, it might as well have a propeller attached.

Mine is essentially stock (except for colors), with the following changes:

a) 4/40 Blind Nuts and Bolts in place of the machine screws holding the wings together (I just felt nervous with the machine screws).
b) Soldering the elevator pushrod halves instead of trusting a wheelcollar to hold things together (I'm just not that trusting).
c) Standard pin hinges in place of the CA hinges (I'm too old fashioned to trust them) - and on the rudder, I used three, fitting them end to end to end (Making the rudder post one long hinge). That rudder cannot possibly be allowed to fail.
d) Wingtip skids were added after the first flying sessions. They are well worth the effort on asphalt, and not worth a darn on grass.
e) Leader streamers on the outer wingstruts, just because they looked really cool (it doesn't seem to faze the aeroplane one bit).

Takeoffs are fairly simple, in that I hold a touch of up elevator, steer straight with rudder, and let her go - but it helps a whole lot if it's into the wind. Remember that it's a World War One aeroplane not the least bit happy about crosswinds.

My flying experiences with the Triplane (once it's balanced) is that it is definite a rudder airplane. I initiate turns first with rudder, then aileron to balance the turn. Probably aileron differential would help the adverse yaw, but so does rudder, and that's why the things back there anyway.

Aerobatics are fairly straight-forward, although speed entering rolls is definitely a plus - note that I only do prototypical stunts, so cannot and will not comment on 3D Schtuff. My favorite maneuver with the plane is the spin - I wish my pattern airplanes back in the 80's would have spun so nice and predictable!!!

Landings are a whole 'nother sport! You almost have to be into the wind to have a decent landing. Between that, and the fact that the landing gear has no shock absorbsion whatsoever means that inevitably you're going to drop a wing (that's where the skids on asphalt come in), and this leads to my sole complaint on the plane.

That lower wing has got to be the most fragile structure ever designed. Between myself and flying buddy Del Johnson, we've done major repairs and/or replacements of the lower wing six times after catching a wingtip on landing. Granted, some of the damage was warranted, but several were not. Keep a very sharp eye on the lower wing, and don't dispair, it is repairable. You'll find that there is no hardwood at all near the rear spars (very light balsa only) and the leading edge seems to rely on the monokote as much as anything to hold everything together (that notch in the leading edge).

Even with that, the Triplane is a blast to fly, and a real attention getter at the flying field - way in excess to the effort needed to get it flying. I'm sure you'll enjoy yours.

Follows are some photos of our triplanes:

'til later,

Lee McDuffee
the WinterHawke
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Old 01-15-2004, 10:46 PM
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Default RE: GP DR-1 Fokker set up & sugestions?

Above - what I playfully refer to as my second best landing that weekend (of four - we were fixing the bottom wing after the worst).

Below, "Take-off, Starting Now!"
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Old 01-15-2004, 10:47 PM
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Default RE: GP DR-1 Fokker set up & sugestions?

The 2002 Scheme, before adding the heart and pig and blue on the bottom:
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Old 01-15-2004, 10:51 PM
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Default RE: GP DR-1 Fokker set up & sugestions?

A line up of World War One birds at the 2003 HAWKS 4-C Rally (Hamilton OH), with my Triplane in the foreground followed by Del Johnson's (candy striped), Stephen Hill-Harriss' Sopwith Baby, Doug Cox's Nieuport 28, and another modeler's Nieuport.
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Old 01-16-2004, 06:20 PM
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Default RE: GP DR-1 Fokker set up & sugestions?

I never broke the bottom wing on landing, but I only flew it about 14 times before it spun in. It did break the bottom wing then, but the other two were intact except for a broken strut block.
Old 01-18-2004, 10:26 AM
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Default RE: GP DR-1 Fokker set up & sugestions?

This photo shows the damage (repaired prior to recovering) suffered Friday at the Dawn Patrol. In the crosswinds there, while I got her down okay, it started its little groundloop dance, snagged a wingtip and then up on her nose. Results were both lower wing panels let go at the leading edge right where the notch is - the plywood plate at the leading edge stops right there! You can see the very thin rear spars, which are actually just light balsa about 1/8th inch or so thick. The only thing going continuous through the wing are the main spars, and they're pretty light too. Fortunately, the damage is easy to repair, just very frustrating!!![:@]

'til later,

Lee McDuffee
the WinterHawke
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Old 01-18-2004, 11:13 AM
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Default RE: GP DR-1 Fokker set up & sugestions?

The Dr1 is a great flying plane but it does a fatal flaw in that the lower wing lacks a hardwood spar! This makes it very susceptible to fracturing if you catch a wing tip on landing. I flew mine with an OS.70 Surpass and had plenty of power, flew it at 1/2 throttle most of the time. It will turn on a dime and give you 9 cents change. Flat turns are beautiful to watch and this plane excels at stall turns. I lost mine when I had a basement fire that destroyed several of my planes. I am looking for a larger scale Dr1 now, maybe at Perry.

Happy Flying!

LOOPMAN
Old 01-18-2004, 04:23 PM
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Default RE: GP DR-1 Fokker set up & sugestions?

Loopman,

Sorry to hear about your losses.

I picked up the Balsa USA kit while at the Dawn Patrol, and am currenty thrashing it into shape (my meager and very rusty building skills just don't yet justify the Torrence kit, but it looks real nice). I'm hoping to have the framework done about the time the snow's gone here in Michigan.[&:]

I'll start the season with the GP Tripe, though, and barring bad winds, should be okay.

I concur on its flat turn ability - it has got to be seen to be believed - I suspect the short coupling along with no fixed fin help. You get a feel for how elusive the full-scale could have been in the Great War!

'til later,

Lee McDuffee
the WinterHawke
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Old 01-21-2004, 11:56 PM
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Default RE: GP DR-1 Fokker set up & sugestions?

I want to thank you for the posts... I'm very excited about getting started on mine... I plan on changing to cover design and will decide on that soon... I have about 8 hrs left on the 120 GEE BEE R2 I'm finishing... I hope more read this post and send me info and pics... Most around here are afraid of the Foker and it's ground habbits... and I think what draws me to it... The beauty of it's flight .... I'm sure it will be worth the challenge... Thank you again...
Old 01-28-2004, 10:07 PM
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Default RE: GP DR-1 Fokker set up & sugestions?

Lee did you paint the changes to your Fokker or monocote?
Old 01-28-2004, 11:03 PM
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Default RE: GP DR-1 Fokker set up & sugestions?

OK... someone's gotta tell me how to put the image I uploaded in here.

I have one of the GP DR1 ARF's. I repainted it to match one of Ricthoffen's planes. (he had a few... the all-red was not the only Dr1 he flew... he got a lot of kills flying Albatross DII's too.)

Red cowl, Green forward half of fuselage Green top to the lower 2 wings, blue bottom ALL WINGS. Tail (from appx 1 inch behind the cockpit on the model) is the same as the GP arf's colors. Top of top wing... its debated if he had Green around the crosses, with just a white outline instead of the solid white blocks with black crosses in center (otherwise it is red). Note: this essentially matches the Tripe flown by Rhinebeck Aerodrome.

******

LOL I guess I did better than I thought. the ppic made it You will note the lower 2 wings deviate from my descrip... I broke the wings and was out of green.
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Old 01-28-2004, 11:16 PM
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Default RE: GP DR-1 Fokker set up & sugestions?

OK... I just got done playing with (and learning how to) changing my avitar...[8D]

You will, if you look for it, find my review (and continued comments) of the GP Fokker ARF in the kit reviews section. My plane is now closing in on 2 years old. Seen a lot of flying.

Rudder structure is a bit weak and flexible. If you go with an oversize engine youwill want to rebuild the rudder. (and be CERTAIN the rudder has NO slop, or you get rudder flutter and can lose the airplane.) You want a 75 oz or better servo on the rudder. Standard servos everywhere else will be fine.
Old 01-29-2004, 11:43 PM
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Default RE: GP DR-1 Fokker set up & sugestions?

Bull-RCU

All of the color changes, with three exceptions, are done with Monokote on my DR1. This includes the striped stabilizer and subwing, the blue underwing and fuselage, the black triangle on the fuselage sides, as well as the blue fields, white clouds and the red heart.

The exceptions are that the cowling was masked and then painted black using Top Flite's Lustrekote to create the Voss-ish face - the cowlings natural white became the eyes, eyebrows and mustache. Should have been primered first, though, 'cause the black chips off under abuse (like noseovers and landing on it!).

The crosses on the wheels were also painted with Lustrekote.

The other exception is that the pig art on the port side of the fuselage is actually a decal made on my inkjet printer. It actually was done this way (rather than Monokote) as a test for a larger (and far more serious) decal used on my friend Doug Cox' Nieuport 28 (kicking mule). It turned out pretty good (better than the photo hacked by a local Walgreen's!) - I don't have a better picture yet of the pig, but here goes anyway.
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Old 01-29-2004, 11:52 PM
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WinterHawke
 
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Default RE: GP DR-1 Fokker set up & sugestions?

In hindsite, I would have been better off stripping the entire machine and recovering it. As it was, I kept the stock red where possible, and I've had some trouble with the leading edge seams not sticking too well - but considering it's an ARF and all, it still came out pretty good.

I also realize, now that I'm paying more attention, that I never really answered your first question, as to setups and such!!!

I should be able to dig the Triplane out of the garage not this weekend, but next weekend for sure, and I'll measure things like the actual throws I use, as well as where the CG finally ended up (I used the scientific approach of adding noseweight to the cowl until I was comfortable in the air!). Hopefully this will help for that all important first flight. I again point out that the one unpardonable sin with this machine is to attempt a flight when tailheavy!!![X(]

'til later,

Lee McDuffee
the WinterHawke
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Old 01-30-2004, 12:12 AM
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Default RE: GP DR-1 Fokker set up & sugestions?

Lee
The wing skids? Where are they from /or did you make them from scratch... Also how did you mount them... I will be flying off grass. There are no local asphalt airfields here.
Old 01-30-2004, 12:22 AM
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Default RE: GP DR-1 Fokker set up & sugestions?

On the throws.. I used TLAR, and never have needed to change any.

I have appx 2X the upward throw on the alerons as down, and still have 30% rudder mixed to counter adverse yaw. Watch that adverse yaw... its killer.

Appx 15 deg up and down on the elevator (TLAR... never measured it)
Appx 25 deg each way rudder.
Appx 12 deg down, 25 deg up aileron. The servo arm is offset on the servo for the differential... not computer mixed.

I plugged it that way when I assembled it... and never have changed a linkage except when I rebuilt the rudder. (and I put that right back the way it had been for throws)

I have had NO problems with my Monokote... I did seal all seams when I did the color shceme modificatin. Just sparayed a bit of clear gloss Lusterkote in the can cap... and brushed it over seans that were not getting sprayed in the color change. I did that for protection from the smoke oil... (TME smoke system in it.)

O.S. .91 FS II. I prefer to fly it with a 14X6... have a 14X4 on it now (hobby shop was out of the 14X6...I needed a prop. Been that way for 9 months) It will ALMOST hover. (Too top heavy.. it falls to the top every time, Even with full down.)

10 lbs on the nose with empty tanks.

***
corrected typo of engine size

The rudder breaking apart inside the covering can be excused... I flipped it hard a few times first.

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