Funtana 90!
07-23-2004, 08:58 AM
#1252
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RE: Funtana 90!
ORIGINAL: ChrisK-RCU
Hey guys- I made a stupid mistake and cut one of the carbon fiber rods too short. Horizon wants $10 for a replacement. Anywhere I can get a similar rod cheaper?
Also- what are you using to seal the hinge gaps. I don't want to buy an entire roll of ultracoat- does horizon sell clear ultracoat in a trim sheet?
Thanks
Hey guys- I made a stupid mistake and cut one of the carbon fiber rods too short. Horizon wants $10 for a replacement. Anywhere I can get a similar rod cheaper?
Also- what are you using to seal the hinge gaps. I don't want to buy an entire roll of ultracoat- does horizon sell clear ultracoat in a trim sheet?
Thanks
I use weed eater line all away around, drill holes, glue holes to harden and use servo eyelets on each side of surface. Usually use landing gear straps on bottom to tied everything together.
It is light, tough and usually the only thing that survives on my planes.
I have use this on 1/3 scale to the Funtana 40, works great, cheap, light.
07-23-2004, 09:59 AM
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RE: Funtana 90!
NOVAflier,
I asked in the engine forum about seting up my Saito 180 with the tank back like you have it and everyone said I would have a hard time getting a consisitent running engine. So, I ordered a Cline regulator in hopes of keeping the tank back a bit. I tried Iron Bay (they're a few bucks cheaper) but could never get a hold of them. Anyway, good luck!
I asked in the engine forum about seting up my Saito 180 with the tank back like you have it and everyone said I would have a hard time getting a consisitent running engine. So, I ordered a Cline regulator in hopes of keeping the tank back a bit. I tried Iron Bay (they're a few bucks cheaper) but could never get a hold of them. Anyway, good luck!
07-23-2004, 11:13 AM
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RE: Funtana 90!
I bet if you went to the search page and put in "Cline Saito 100" you would find your answer quicker. The UCD 60 flyers have been using both for quite some time on inverted installations and there are extensive threads about it...No need for the huge font either...
)
07-23-2004, 12:40 PM
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RE: Funtana 90!
DARN!!! I knew it. I must love punishment because this hobby makes everything so difficult.
I will move the tank forward then....oh well, and it looked so nice!!!
I will move the tank forward then....oh well, and it looked so nice!!!
07-23-2004, 12:47 PM
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RE: Funtana 90!
I must love punishment because this hobby makes everything so difficult.
07-23-2004, 01:16 PM
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RE: Funtana 90!
Update on landing gear and linkage.
Yesterday we had a flier decide that he wanted to work on his plane in the middle of the runway, so being unable to land I put it back just above idle and cruised around for a while. One of those freak winds/storms came up all of a sudden and when I tried to throttle up the engine died. Here I am going downwind, at least most of the time, engine dead and at the wrong end of the runway. Lets just say I set it down as gentle as I could under the circumstances. Gear flattened out completely. No damage to the wood. Bent it straight, adjusted the engine and flew again.
I am starting to develop some slop in the kit clevises. Not in the thread area, the other end. Clevis is starting to spread open. Have fuel tubing in place to hold it together. Have even crimped them slightly together but they keep spreading. The threaded end is holding up great, no slack at all. Guess they are just too soft. I will be replacing them before too long. The ball end is holding up fine at this point, about seven flying hours.
Ed M.
Yesterday we had a flier decide that he wanted to work on his plane in the middle of the runway, so being unable to land I put it back just above idle and cruised around for a while. One of those freak winds/storms came up all of a sudden and when I tried to throttle up the engine died. Here I am going downwind, at least most of the time, engine dead and at the wrong end of the runway. Lets just say I set it down as gentle as I could under the circumstances. Gear flattened out completely. No damage to the wood. Bent it straight, adjusted the engine and flew again.
I am starting to develop some slop in the kit clevises. Not in the thread area, the other end. Clevis is starting to spread open. Have fuel tubing in place to hold it together. Have even crimped them slightly together but they keep spreading. The threaded end is holding up great, no slack at all. Guess they are just too soft. I will be replacing them before too long. The ball end is holding up fine at this point, about seven flying hours.
Ed M.
07-23-2004, 01:27 PM
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RE: Funtana 90!
Geez Mike! That post hurt my eyes!
Yes, the Iron Bay regulator requires tank pressure...just like the Cline.
My Funtana has a CG-ish mounted tank and I've experienced fuel delivery problems...not while prop-hanging but when in flat spins and sharp multiple snaps. I'm hooking up a brand-spanking new Perry VP30 pump to my Saito 100 today and will get some before-and-after tached test runs with different fuels. I'll try to shoot pics of the setup and post 'em here.
The Cline or Iron Bay regulators work very well, but I prefer a true 'pump' like the VP30...to me it's a less complicated setup, there's no need for tank pressurization (kapow, drip, drip, drip), very reliable, and MUCH cheaper. I've used VP30s many times with CG mounted tanks on large 2-strokes (1.20 and up) and the engines ALWAYS loved it. However, this will be my first attempt at putting one on a 4-stroke. The setup is very simple...the crankcase vent is already there, the 'puke tube' simply has a tee in it which powers the pump. No muffler tap is needed so I'm going to remove the muffler and use an 'open header'. There's a guy in the area that told me about running a pump and open header and he said that the engines absolutely love it. Judging by the way his run he's right!
[link=http://saito-engines.info/pumps.html]CLICK HERE[/link] for an excellent comparison of all the mentioned pumps / regulator systems when used with 4-strokes.
-Tom
Yes, the Iron Bay regulator requires tank pressure...just like the Cline.
My Funtana has a CG-ish mounted tank and I've experienced fuel delivery problems...not while prop-hanging but when in flat spins and sharp multiple snaps. I'm hooking up a brand-spanking new Perry VP30 pump to my Saito 100 today and will get some before-and-after tached test runs with different fuels. I'll try to shoot pics of the setup and post 'em here.
The Cline or Iron Bay regulators work very well, but I prefer a true 'pump' like the VP30...to me it's a less complicated setup, there's no need for tank pressurization (kapow, drip, drip, drip), very reliable, and MUCH cheaper. I've used VP30s many times with CG mounted tanks on large 2-strokes (1.20 and up) and the engines ALWAYS loved it. However, this will be my first attempt at putting one on a 4-stroke. The setup is very simple...the crankcase vent is already there, the 'puke tube' simply has a tee in it which powers the pump. No muffler tap is needed so I'm going to remove the muffler and use an 'open header'. There's a guy in the area that told me about running a pump and open header and he said that the engines absolutely love it. Judging by the way his run he's right!
[link=http://saito-engines.info/pumps.html]CLICK HERE[/link] for an excellent comparison of all the mentioned pumps / regulator systems when used with 4-strokes.
-Tom
07-23-2004, 01:39 PM
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RE: Funtana 90!
I know, there's no need for sarcasm. If it had not been for the club memeber wanting to buy my Saito 100, I would still be suffering with it on the Funtana. Maybe the 180 is all he has to put on it...
07-23-2004, 01:46 PM
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RE: Funtana 90!
ORIGINAL: bentgear
Update on landing gear and linkage.
Yesterday we had a flier decide that he wanted to work on his plane in the middle of the runway, so being unable to land I put it back just above idle and cruised around for a while. One of those freak winds/storms came up all of a sudden and when I tried to throttle up the engine died. Here I am going downwind, at least most of the time, engine dead and at the wrong end of the runway. Lets just say I set it down as gentle as I could under the circumstances. Gear flattened out completely. No damage to the wood. Bent it straight, adjusted the engine and flew again.
I am starting to develop some slop in the kit clevises. Not in the thread area, the other end. Clevis is starting to spread open. Have fuel tubing in place to hold it together. Have even crimped them slightly together but they keep spreading. The threaded end is holding up great, no slack at all. Guess they are just too soft. I will be replacing them before too long. The ball end is holding up fine at this point, about seven flying hours.
Ed M.
Update on landing gear and linkage.
Yesterday we had a flier decide that he wanted to work on his plane in the middle of the runway, so being unable to land I put it back just above idle and cruised around for a while. One of those freak winds/storms came up all of a sudden and when I tried to throttle up the engine died. Here I am going downwind, at least most of the time, engine dead and at the wrong end of the runway. Lets just say I set it down as gentle as I could under the circumstances. Gear flattened out completely. No damage to the wood. Bent it straight, adjusted the engine and flew again.
I am starting to develop some slop in the kit clevises. Not in the thread area, the other end. Clevis is starting to spread open. Have fuel tubing in place to hold it together. Have even crimped them slightly together but they keep spreading. The threaded end is holding up great, no slack at all. Guess they are just too soft. I will be replacing them before too long. The ball end is holding up fine at this point, about seven flying hours.
Ed M.
07-23-2004, 01:50 PM
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RE: Funtana 90!
;-)
Out at David's. Some newbie with a sore back, didn't want to carry his plane back to the pits. I think he now knows he can't hog the runway................ed
Out at David's. Some newbie with a sore back, didn't want to carry his plane back to the pits. I think he now knows he can't hog the runway................ed
07-23-2004, 02:39 PM
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RE: Funtana 90!
Hey thanks for the vote of confidence, mikerc. I appreciate the support[sm=thumbdown.gif].
Like NOVAflier said, that's all I have to use. I just spent $10k on a beautiful backyard so model engine are on hold for now. This plane has already stretched my modeling budget.
TT2,
I was recommended the Cline/Iron Bay regulator over the Perry Pumps. The guys in the engine forum said the regulators work better than the pumps on 4-strokes. Do you have any insight on this? I just want the one that works best, be it pump or regulator. By the way, I got the landing gear mounted...they are very nice! Thanks again!
Like NOVAflier said, that's all I have to use. I just spent $10k on a beautiful backyard so model engine are on hold for now. This plane has already stretched my modeling budget.
TT2,
I was recommended the Cline/Iron Bay regulator over the Perry Pumps. The guys in the engine forum said the regulators work better than the pumps on 4-strokes. Do you have any insight on this? I just want the one that works best, be it pump or regulator. By the way, I got the landing gear mounted...they are very nice! Thanks again!
07-23-2004, 02:43 PM
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RE: Funtana 90!
Hey PT, I think you got the wrong finger raised in that hand
I know what you mean about the backyard, we were quoted to put in a whole new lawn and it was around $5K, needless to say we will be living with our weedy lawn for a while...who new grass could cost so much...
I know what you mean about the backyard, we were quoted to put in a whole new lawn and it was around $5K, needless to say we will be living with our weedy lawn for a while...who new grass could cost so much...
07-23-2004, 02:56 PM
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RE: Funtana 90!
Pauly,
Glad you like the gear. You'll LOVE them when you begin using them. The prototype set I'm using is identical except yours are the 'extra tall' version if I remember correctly.
Regarding what the guys in the engine forum said, they may have been talking about the VP20 pump and not the VP30. The VP20 'shaker' pumps depend upon engine vibrations to provide fuel flow. Positioning the pump correctly in relation to the crankshaft to maximize fuel flow can be problematic. Conversely, the VP30s operate from crankcase pressure. With 4-stokes the setup and line lengths of the VP30's pressurizing system is critical to provide adequate, but not too much, pressure to power the pump. If you read the link I referred to it will shed some light on proper setup. The author prefers the VP30 rig over all other types of fuel delivery systems. Based upon his comments and my past experiences with VP30s I'm confident the system will work very well. I'll keep you posted on what I discover after testing / flying.
Gotta get back to the shop!
-Tom
Glad you like the gear. You'll LOVE them when you begin using them. The prototype set I'm using is identical except yours are the 'extra tall' version if I remember correctly.
Regarding what the guys in the engine forum said, they may have been talking about the VP20 pump and not the VP30. The VP20 'shaker' pumps depend upon engine vibrations to provide fuel flow. Positioning the pump correctly in relation to the crankshaft to maximize fuel flow can be problematic. Conversely, the VP30s operate from crankcase pressure. With 4-stokes the setup and line lengths of the VP30's pressurizing system is critical to provide adequate, but not too much, pressure to power the pump. If you read the link I referred to it will shed some light on proper setup. The author prefers the VP30 rig over all other types of fuel delivery systems. Based upon his comments and my past experiences with VP30s I'm confident the system will work very well. I'll keep you posted on what I discover after testing / flying.
Gotta get back to the shop!
-Tom
07-23-2004, 03:31 PM
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RE: Funtana 90!
ptgarcia,
That is fine. I know about landscaping. $$$$.
I really don't think the 180 is a good engine for this light of a plane. You will have a ton of power but the Funtana needs to as light as possible. Just my 2 cents.
Have fun
That is fine. I know about landscaping. $$$$.
I really don't think the 180 is a good engine for this light of a plane. You will have a ton of power but the Funtana needs to as light as possible. Just my 2 cents.
Have fun
07-23-2004, 03:32 PM
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RE: Funtana 90!
NOVAflier,
I just moved into a new home so I had to start from scratch...new concrete slab, planter/seat wall, sprinklers, drains, top soil, grass, etc. I'm just lucky I live in southern California where lot sizes are small!
Tom,
I just finished reading the link you posted. Sounds like the VP-30 may be a seweet setup. Please keep us posted, and I'll do the same with the Cline. Take care!
I just moved into a new home so I had to start from scratch...new concrete slab, planter/seat wall, sprinklers, drains, top soil, grass, etc. I'm just lucky I live in southern California where lot sizes are small!
Tom,
I just finished reading the link you posted. Sounds like the VP-30 may be a seweet setup. Please keep us posted, and I'll do the same with the Cline. Take care!
07-23-2004, 03:36 PM
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RE: Funtana 90!
mikerc,
I agree with you, my first choice would be a YS 110. If the 180 is no good, I'll take it off until I can shell out the $350 or so for the YS. I thought it would be worth trying the 180, however.
I agree with you, my first choice would be a YS 110. If the 180 is no good, I'll take it off until I can shell out the $350 or so for the YS. I thought it would be worth trying the 180, however.
07-23-2004, 03:44 PM
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RE: Funtana 90!
I'm running the Saito 180 with a VP-20 shaker pump...and haven't had a problem at all...if you go to the website or catalog, I think they say something about it will work with 2 strokes and large 4 strokes. It's been on there a year now, and run's good.
Just thought I would pipe in...lot of good info here...
Mark
Just thought I would pipe in...lot of good info here...
Mark
07-23-2004, 06:47 PM
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RE: Funtana 90!
OK, naysayers feel free to jump in at any time!
I just test fired the Saito 100 with the Perry VP30 pump and NO muffler...just the straight Saito threaded pipe. Byron's Heli Proglow (or whatever they call it) 35% nitro, 24% oil, Temperature 76 degrees, 82% humidity, 1000' ASL. 15x4W APC, glowbee tach. Purple shirt, jean shorts, black Airwalks.
You might not believe this (I was astonished)...a STEADY 10,950 RPM! Wow. Peaks of 11,050 when coming off idle and going to full throttle. Sounds like I need a 16x4W APC.
Had to lean out the low end quite a bit after pump installation but the high needle seemed to like where it was. Weird. Usually the high end and low end need to be leaned quite a bit after installing the VP30 on big two strokes...like 1 1/4 turns. Maybe having the pump's pressure line teed to the atmosphere reduces the pressure pulses just enough at high RPMs to be 'perfect'.
Fuel delivery was very steady, but the proof will be in the air. I'm sure it will be great. Power was soooo much more than I'd had before. I attribute this to the muffler. I probably had the muffler threaded onto the header pipe way too far initially and this could have been restricting exhaust flow considerably.
I think I might be happy with the Saito 100 after all. My Funtana is most likely about a half pound lighter than average...haven't weighed it yet, but by using mini digis for the elevators, micro for throttle, and CF gear / light axles / no wheel pants that should equate to about an 8 oz savings. No lead anywhere. I'll be flying it extensively this weekend.
I'll shoot pics of the VP30 installation and post them tonight.
-Tom
I just test fired the Saito 100 with the Perry VP30 pump and NO muffler...just the straight Saito threaded pipe. Byron's Heli Proglow (or whatever they call it) 35% nitro, 24% oil, Temperature 76 degrees, 82% humidity, 1000' ASL. 15x4W APC, glowbee tach. Purple shirt, jean shorts, black Airwalks.
You might not believe this (I was astonished)...a STEADY 10,950 RPM! Wow. Peaks of 11,050 when coming off idle and going to full throttle. Sounds like I need a 16x4W APC.
Had to lean out the low end quite a bit after pump installation but the high needle seemed to like where it was. Weird. Usually the high end and low end need to be leaned quite a bit after installing the VP30 on big two strokes...like 1 1/4 turns. Maybe having the pump's pressure line teed to the atmosphere reduces the pressure pulses just enough at high RPMs to be 'perfect'.
Fuel delivery was very steady, but the proof will be in the air. I'm sure it will be great. Power was soooo much more than I'd had before. I attribute this to the muffler. I probably had the muffler threaded onto the header pipe way too far initially and this could have been restricting exhaust flow considerably.
I think I might be happy with the Saito 100 after all. My Funtana is most likely about a half pound lighter than average...haven't weighed it yet, but by using mini digis for the elevators, micro for throttle, and CF gear / light axles / no wheel pants that should equate to about an 8 oz savings. No lead anywhere. I'll be flying it extensively this weekend.
I'll shoot pics of the VP30 installation and post them tonight.
-Tom
07-23-2004, 07:08 PM
#1275
RE: Funtana 90!
I am just wondering if there is a complication due to the fact that the pump will shoot a little fuel every rotation of the crank, (pressure cycle in the crank is each rev)... but the carb will only "SUCK" in air/fuel every other rev... (4 stroke remember?..)... does the fuel squirted on the "Wrong" rev just sit in the carb and get drawn in on the next rev?.... It seems to be working... for some people anyway....It also seems that some "PUMP" action is lost by having the other end from the "T" open.... this must be to reduce the volume of fuel pumped each rev???.... HMMMMM?????? let us know how it works over the weekend ok TT2?!?!?!?
thanks
thanks