Usually on the wooden props you just have to sand off some of the finish on the heavy blade. Don't get me started on balancing props, hours, sometimes days. I even balance the spinner. Joe

I had the wing apart and measured the location of the steel rod joiner. It's just over 3/4" in front of the main spar.

av8r1, I don't think that is far enough forward to contribute that much. Physically, yes, but not enough to notice. Joe

A few points about the model:

1: The recommended balance point is for stability. The airplane is intended for novices, and being a bit on the nose-heavy side makes the plane much more stable in pitch.

2: If the model flies more to your preference with a farther-aft balance point, then balance it there. Do whatever it takes...add weight, move things aft, and so on. the first thing to move aft would be the receiver battery pack. That's the most amount of moveable weight in the model. Don't worry about he wing rod. If you remove it, you'll have to replace it with something else, and you'll likely have little change in net weight or balance.

3: With any model, balancing is required. Variances in materials can make different models balance differently, even those in the same production run.

Bill,

Thanks for the definitive information on the airplane.

1. I understand the reason for being a bit nose-heavy for beginners. I started out that way on my first models and kept moving the cg farther back as my skills improved. It just seemed that this was more than a bit. I guess you would just have to set a lot of up elevator to get it to fly level for a beginner.

2. Although the wing rod weighs 3.8 oz., it is so close to the main spar it probably doesn't have that much effect on the nose-heaviness, as Joe stated. I was just looking for some possible reason for it. I wasn't thinking of removing it.

3. I realize balancing is required with any model for the reasons you stated, it just seemed like this was excessive for an RTF. I will have to find a way to get the battery farther back in the fuselage to get all that weight off the tail, even though it's pretty hard to work back in the area behind the bulkhead without cutting some kind of hatch in the fuse.

Thanks again for your reply.

av8r1, now this requires a little creative thinking. Maybe more creativity than thinking once figured out. I use velcro for many things, but battery hold down is my favorite, With a long brush or a brush taped to a stick, apply on the bottom of the fuse interior, aft of the main compartment, some thinned out contact cement, thinned out epoxy or some polyeuroyhane. This will seal the balsa and give the stickum on the velcro some bite. I picked up a 2' wide roll at an office supply store that was cheaper than the small amounts at the LHS. Once the sealer is dry, which could take a while in the small enclosure, apply the velcro. The velcro is tricky, the rest is easy. On the velcro, roll back a little bit of the protective backer and crease it, exposing about 1/4" of the stickum. Now you can handle it and manuver it in with the exposed part going to the back. Before you put it in you can put a piece of string through a small hole in the flap so you can pull the backer off as you lay the velcro down. Use a stick to rub it down. On the battery, clean with alcohol and stick the velcro to the battery. Now put a small piece of velcro on the other side of the battery and a piece on the stick. You now have a removable handle to reach back and place the battery. Of course you must find your CG before all this, but the velcro allows you to move it around if you ever want to change. Joe

You mean I have to be creative? [:@] Oh ok, if I must. I've had to do that before. It's amazing what you can come up with when you have to.

I was thinking the battery would have to go something like that, but it sounds like you've got it all well worked out in every detail.

Thanks.

Ever build a ship in a bottle?

Ralph,

I put the two aileron servos in last night and tried it out today. I didn't have much time to experiment with different settings on the flaperons, but I was flying around real slow like a park flyer and then switching them off and zipping around with the fast guys. Well, as much as I can zip with the .40LA.

I like to fly nose heavy.
The plane seems just to be more responsive. But I have to land pretty flat and fast.
Flapperons seem to be the logical next step.
How much slower can you fly? Floating would be nice.
And what is your CG?

Thanks

Ralph

Cut an access hatch behind the wing & make a battery-well. It is a very easy mod & you will not have to add any lead weight.

I'm still experimenting at this point and trying to get the feel of the flaperons, but they do slow it down. How much is kind of hard to say, but with them set at 40% on my Hitec Flash 5 SX you can definitely see the plane pitch up a little and then settle down into slower level flight. I'm not quite sure what the 40% means yet, but it's not really very much down from the normal neutral position.

My plane will definitely float with the cg at 3-5/8" with or without flaperons, but remember I have the stock OS .40LA engine in it. The flaperons would probably work differently on your plane with the bigger engine.

I do seem to be able to land much slower with the flaperons, but I have to be very careful not to let it get too slow, giving it a little throttle sometimes to make sure it doesn't stall. Like I said, I'm still learning with them but I've had some pretty good short landings when I hit it just right.

Hope this helps. I'll try to let you know more as I learn more.

av8r1 Thanks.

Please keep me updated about your flaperons.
As I said before this is something I've been thinking about for awhile now.

Even my instructors who say my plane flu's very nice have a hard time landing !QUOT!slow!QUOT!.
flapperons seems to be the answer I'm looking for.

My plane weighs in at 5 pounds 5 oz.

I put longer servo arms on to increase my aileron throws because they were a little short with the new servos, and that not only got my roll rate back, but it increased the flaperon deflection. Without changing the radio settings, I had some very slow landings and short takeoffs today using flaperons. They definitely slow the plane down a lot. It did tend to get a little unstable at the 50% setting if I let it get too slow. My plane weighs 4 lbs. 14 oz. with no fuel.

I did some research today.

My Evolution engine weighs in at 18.8 ounces where the O.S. Max FP I have weighs in at 11 ounces.
That's a lot of wieght for an extra 1/3 to 1/2 hp.

As I stated before my plane weighs in at 5.5 pounds dry.

What servos did you use for the flapperons and what channels on the recieved are you using?

I can have the stuff here on Monday from Tower Hobbies if I order tonight.

Thanks

Ralph

I'm using Hitec HS-81 servos and channels 1 & 5 on my Hitec Flash 5 SX.

Ya know I put a .46 in my avistar because I thought I was thinking a head for to my next plane.
What I lost was the ability to float. I have to land flat and fairly fast.
When I slow down to much The plane simply falls out of the air.

On the other hand the plane will go vertical. The times I have gotten into trouble I simply apply full throttle and point it up.

If I had it to do over again I'd keep the OS 40. It would be a lot easier to setup, I moved my 6 volt battery to the tail section so the plane would balance. It still does stunts fairly well.

As someone else already said," The Avistar was made for the OS 40."


Ralph

Wow, I couldn't disagree more! An OS 40 weighs 16.8oz. A Thunder Tiger .46Pro weighs 17.01oz. That much weight will make no difference at all. If your plane if floating, it is probabbly too nose heavy. I had that problem as well. I had to add 2.25oz of lead on the tail and move the battery toward the back to get the CG where I want it. It floats in perfectly now.


If your plane will simply fall out of the air, then you are either trying to land with the wind, or you picked up some weight somewhere other than your .46 engine. I land at walking speeds all the time. You already said you like to have your plane nose heavy, that is why you have to land fast, not because of the engine.

BTW, if you were referring to the OS 40LA, what a bore that would be. The Avistar was made for a good ball bearing .46 for sure. I can torque roll, knife edge, blender (no kidding), etc. I'd like to see a 40LA do a loop with a radius more than 30ft let alone any decent aerobatics. The avistar is definately the best trainer with the right engine. I have had about 6 planes since the Avistar and I still drag it out every once in a while because its still fun to harrier with enough head wind

[X(]

I am very new to this, I'm on my second gallon of fuel.

I'm sure you are right about the CG needing to be moved back, In fact I'm going to try that in the next day or so.

My Evolution motor weighs in at 18.8 ounces where as my OS 40 Max FP weighs in at 11.4 ounces.

I was thinking that the extra 7.4oz was to much for the plane, but aparently not.

Where is your CG set at, and what does your plane weigh?

Thanks for the help.

Ralph

I can't remember exactly where I set my CG (I might check later), but I do know that is it at the very end of the manufactureres suggestions (maybe even a bit further). I also don't know what it weighs.

I assure you, your problem is the CG, like I said, I had the exact same problem with having to land very fast and also not being able to bleed speed very well(took about 1/8mi to slow down). Once you move your CG back, I'd say all related troubles will be solved.

I agree with PTARP -- the Avistar is the best all-round trainer on the market. It flies beautifully as a slow basic trainer & it will tear the butt right out of the sky with a hot engine & good pilot. It is a great first airplane with a simple bushing .40, & a good second airplane witha hot .46, & then with a bit of bashing it makes a good third airplane as well.

The AVISTAR is crap. Don't waste your time. The wings will split in half even if you epoxy the living hell out of the wing with 30 min epoxy. The plane sucks and so does anyone who says other wise.

[8D]

The OS 40LA that came with my Avistar weighs 12.3 oz with muffler. I believe it's the 40FX that weighs 16.8 oz. If I put 4.5 oz. more on the nose of my plane I think it would go vertical - but in the wrong direction. [:@]

I'm thinking of getting a 46LA because it weighs the same as the 40LA and is supposed to have 20% more power. More power & no more weight sounds pretty good to me.

I'm speaking from experience, you are not. The Avistar can EASILY handle an 18oz engine without degrading performance. LA engines do not last as long as the ones with bearings, and don't have nearly as much power. I will concede that most people don't fly their trainers like an aerobat, and therefore don't need a ton of power on it. But, it just so happens that the Avistar is a very capable aerobatic plane, with the right engine(not an LA).


If you are so worried about weight, why did you put totally unnessary weight in it?

You are right. The weight would be better suited in upgrading to a better engine.