New to RC Air - looking at new Hanger 9 Aplha trainer
02-09-2003, 11:17 AM
#26
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Evolution engine
Bear,
I didn't have much problems with the engine, but I'll list my observations. Someone else noted that the throttle binds in many of the planes--mine did, but I solved it by bending the throttle arm & had no problems with that afterward.
Transition problems are not uncommon with many two stroke engines. I'd be lying if I said my Evolution engine always transitioned perfectly, but it usually wasn't too bad, and generally transitioned better after I richened the high speed mixture a little. The idle mixture didn't seem too fussy. I also left the glow starter on for awhile until the engine had a chance to warm up enough to idle consistently, then let it idle long enough without the starter to warm up thoroughly before checking throttle response by raising the throttle setting slowly to full and back a couple of times before running the engine up quickly. Of course, the fact that I live in Minnesota and it's winter might have something to do with my conservative starting technique.
I'm far from an expert on engines, but I'd try to figure out if it was caused by being too lean or rich, and work from there. Check for a good seal between the carburetor and engine. Make sure you're using the correct glow plug--this engine calls for the Hangar 9 super plug, which extends pretty deeply into the cylinder head. I wouldn't use anything else. Check the fuel system. Do you see bubbles in the fuel line? (After priming, of course). It could mean a hole in the fuel tubing. As far as taking the muffler baffle out goes, I'd try to make sure that it makes things better, and not worse.
Good luck! If nothing works, there's always eBay, and an OS 46 (FX, not LA).
I didn't have much problems with the engine, but I'll list my observations. Someone else noted that the throttle binds in many of the planes--mine did, but I solved it by bending the throttle arm & had no problems with that afterward.
Transition problems are not uncommon with many two stroke engines. I'd be lying if I said my Evolution engine always transitioned perfectly, but it usually wasn't too bad, and generally transitioned better after I richened the high speed mixture a little. The idle mixture didn't seem too fussy. I also left the glow starter on for awhile until the engine had a chance to warm up enough to idle consistently, then let it idle long enough without the starter to warm up thoroughly before checking throttle response by raising the throttle setting slowly to full and back a couple of times before running the engine up quickly. Of course, the fact that I live in Minnesota and it's winter might have something to do with my conservative starting technique.
I'm far from an expert on engines, but I'd try to figure out if it was caused by being too lean or rich, and work from there. Check for a good seal between the carburetor and engine. Make sure you're using the correct glow plug--this engine calls for the Hangar 9 super plug, which extends pretty deeply into the cylinder head. I wouldn't use anything else. Check the fuel system. Do you see bubbles in the fuel line? (After priming, of course). It could mean a hole in the fuel tubing. As far as taking the muffler baffle out goes, I'd try to make sure that it makes things better, and not worse.
Good luck! If nothing works, there's always eBay, and an OS 46 (FX, not LA).
02-09-2003, 04:18 PM
#27
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New to RC Air - looking at new Hanger 9 Aplha trainer
Jeff,
Thanks for the response. Another gentleman had a pin hole in the fuel tubing from the needle valve to the carb. We might have to try that next time at the field. He ran the engine with and without the baffle and there was no change in the bad transition.
Without the baffle there was alot more power.
Thanks, Barry
Thanks for the response. Another gentleman had a pin hole in the fuel tubing from the needle valve to the carb. We might have to try that next time at the field. He ran the engine with and without the baffle and there was no change in the bad transition.
Without the baffle there was alot more power.
Thanks, Barry
02-09-2003, 06:47 PM
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H9 Alpha results. (PILOT ERROR)
I bought an H9 alpha. I really don't know how to fly. So far, I have owned 3 planes.
Results:
1st plane: (1997) Cessna 182 Skylane with flaps: 1 flight, 1 crash, no landings. Rudder hardover on maiden takeoff, flight duration approx 4 seconds. Gravity called. Total scatter. Crashed on maiden.
2nd Plane: (2003) H9 Alpha: 1 flight, 1 crash, no landings. Flew well for about 5 minutes, then became disoriented during high altitude loops, rolls, inverted flight. Out of trim. Gravity called. Total scatter.
Crashed on maiden.
3rd plane: (2003) H9 Alpha: 1 flight, 1 splashdown, no landings. Flew about 45 sec, got too far, disoriented, out of trim. Got disoriented. Shut off engine and pulled up elevator, splashed down into river. Had to go into the drink to get plane. Freezing cold water, swift current, deep. A true act of courage to rescue plane. Plane now dry, rebuilt and will remain on ground until I find a trainer.
KB
Results:
1st plane: (1997) Cessna 182 Skylane with flaps: 1 flight, 1 crash, no landings. Rudder hardover on maiden takeoff, flight duration approx 4 seconds. Gravity called. Total scatter. Crashed on maiden.
2nd Plane: (2003) H9 Alpha: 1 flight, 1 crash, no landings. Flew well for about 5 minutes, then became disoriented during high altitude loops, rolls, inverted flight. Out of trim. Gravity called. Total scatter.
Crashed on maiden.
3rd plane: (2003) H9 Alpha: 1 flight, 1 splashdown, no landings. Flew about 45 sec, got too far, disoriented, out of trim. Got disoriented. Shut off engine and pulled up elevator, splashed down into river. Had to go into the drink to get plane. Freezing cold water, swift current, deep. A true act of courage to rescue plane. Plane now dry, rebuilt and will remain on ground until I find a trainer.
KB
02-09-2003, 09:03 PM
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New to RC Air - looking at new Hanger 9 Aplha trainer
Splinteredbalsa,
While I admire your all-or-nothing courage, I think you should change your handle to something more optimistic and take baby steps.
If you haven't already done so, read up on the basics of flight. A book won't be necessary--the Internet will do fine. Next, learn to walk before you soar--do some taxi training to make sure the plane is adjusted for straight-line taxiing, which will make takeoff and landing easier. Take the time to set up your control surfaces (and trims) like the manual describes. Make sure you connect the control wires to the holes furthest out on your control horns to limit control movement. That will make control movements on your radio less sensitive, and lessen the chance of a stall or worse.
Ready to fly? OK, try a gentle takeoff on as calm a day as you can find. Now gain enough altitude to recover, but not so much as it's hard to see up from down on the plane. Fly a simple circular or square-oval pattern--work on keeping the plane within easy sight. Progress on this with the goal of turning the square O pattern into something more closely resembling a sideways oval, so the plane is always in plain sight. Adjust your trims in-flight for best control while airborne.
Now get ready for touch-and-goes. An important thing to understand about airplanes (on an intuitive level) is that the elevator isn't the primary control to make your plane gain and lose altitude--the throttle is. The elevator's job is to control the pitch of the plane. Sure, when you're flying fast, straight and level you loop by pulling back on the elevator stick, but you've still only pitched the airplane up in a circular motion. This really comes into play when landing. First establish slow, level flight into whatever wind there may be. It helps if you can position yourself so that when the plane is flying into the wind the plane is flying left to right or vice versa relative to you. Now that you're flying slow and level, ease the throttle back to a gentle descent. When the plane is close to the ground you'll need to flare for the landing by easing the nose up with elevator. Try to make your movements easy, and don't over-control. The landing should have happened by itself now, and you can either kill the engine and think about what you've done for a moment (& how to improve) or give the plane throttle and go around for another try. You may even want to practice landing without actually touching down (at a safe altitude) to see how the plane will react in the landing regime before you actually touch down. The main thing is, you have to crawl (and crawl, and crawl) before you can walk. Practice the basics first; I find as much pleasure in a well-executed landing (which takes skill, after all, to be consistent) as in aerobatics. When I lived near a Georgia air base some time ago I used to watch Navy and Air Force hotshots in F-15s, F18s and other high-performance jets practice touch-and-gos over & over again before taking off for the mountains for aerial combat exercises, so experienced pilots never stop practicing the basics, or lose the satisfaction of a well-executed landing.
All that said, it's a good idea to get a trainer cord, find someone experienced who has a JR radio (since Alphas come with JR radios) and learn that way, as you mentioned.
BTW, I just went to my first airplane auction, and have never SEEN such great deals on planes & R/C equipment! There's a large club in my city (Minneapolis) that sponsored the auction, and there were at least 300 airplanes for sale! Every size & type you could think of, most of which were in perfect condition. I picked up one of those $200 RealFlight software packages PLUS an add-on package, brand-new for $55 !!! Not to mention five great airplanes, some with everything needed to fly! A friend of mine won a raffle for a Futaba T6As computer radio as well. What a blast! I'd definitely recommend checking these auctions out; they usually happen once a year, and shouldn't be missed.
Oh, one last thing...
I've found that a great way to keep myself from crossing the controls when the plane is flying towards me is to point the transmitter antenna in the direction the plane is flying towards. Even though you will be looking at where the plane is coming FROM, your mind tells your hands to control the plane correctly. After awhile you get the hang of flying without doing this, but when I get temporarily confused, I still resort to this trick.
Works for me...
While I admire your all-or-nothing courage, I think you should change your handle to something more optimistic and take baby steps.
If you haven't already done so, read up on the basics of flight. A book won't be necessary--the Internet will do fine. Next, learn to walk before you soar--do some taxi training to make sure the plane is adjusted for straight-line taxiing, which will make takeoff and landing easier. Take the time to set up your control surfaces (and trims) like the manual describes. Make sure you connect the control wires to the holes furthest out on your control horns to limit control movement. That will make control movements on your radio less sensitive, and lessen the chance of a stall or worse.
Ready to fly? OK, try a gentle takeoff on as calm a day as you can find. Now gain enough altitude to recover, but not so much as it's hard to see up from down on the plane. Fly a simple circular or square-oval pattern--work on keeping the plane within easy sight. Progress on this with the goal of turning the square O pattern into something more closely resembling a sideways oval, so the plane is always in plain sight. Adjust your trims in-flight for best control while airborne.
Now get ready for touch-and-goes. An important thing to understand about airplanes (on an intuitive level) is that the elevator isn't the primary control to make your plane gain and lose altitude--the throttle is. The elevator's job is to control the pitch of the plane. Sure, when you're flying fast, straight and level you loop by pulling back on the elevator stick, but you've still only pitched the airplane up in a circular motion. This really comes into play when landing. First establish slow, level flight into whatever wind there may be. It helps if you can position yourself so that when the plane is flying into the wind the plane is flying left to right or vice versa relative to you. Now that you're flying slow and level, ease the throttle back to a gentle descent. When the plane is close to the ground you'll need to flare for the landing by easing the nose up with elevator. Try to make your movements easy, and don't over-control. The landing should have happened by itself now, and you can either kill the engine and think about what you've done for a moment (& how to improve) or give the plane throttle and go around for another try. You may even want to practice landing without actually touching down (at a safe altitude) to see how the plane will react in the landing regime before you actually touch down. The main thing is, you have to crawl (and crawl, and crawl) before you can walk. Practice the basics first; I find as much pleasure in a well-executed landing (which takes skill, after all, to be consistent) as in aerobatics. When I lived near a Georgia air base some time ago I used to watch Navy and Air Force hotshots in F-15s, F18s and other high-performance jets practice touch-and-gos over & over again before taking off for the mountains for aerial combat exercises, so experienced pilots never stop practicing the basics, or lose the satisfaction of a well-executed landing.
All that said, it's a good idea to get a trainer cord, find someone experienced who has a JR radio (since Alphas come with JR radios) and learn that way, as you mentioned.
BTW, I just went to my first airplane auction, and have never SEEN such great deals on planes & R/C equipment! There's a large club in my city (Minneapolis) that sponsored the auction, and there were at least 300 airplanes for sale! Every size & type you could think of, most of which were in perfect condition. I picked up one of those $200 RealFlight software packages PLUS an add-on package, brand-new for $55 !!! Not to mention five great airplanes, some with everything needed to fly! A friend of mine won a raffle for a Futaba T6As computer radio as well. What a blast! I'd definitely recommend checking these auctions out; they usually happen once a year, and shouldn't be missed.
Oh, one last thing...
I've found that a great way to keep myself from crossing the controls when the plane is flying towards me is to point the transmitter antenna in the direction the plane is flying towards. Even though you will be looking at where the plane is coming FROM, your mind tells your hands to control the plane correctly. After awhile you get the hang of flying without doing this, but when I get temporarily confused, I still resort to this trick.
Works for me...
02-10-2003, 05:32 AM
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Jeff & Aeropal, thanks!
The loops and rolls, etc I was talking about were all INVOLUNTARY and completely out of control.
The only smart thing I did on that flight was to make sure there was not another human, animal, or vehicle nearby.
Thanks for the auction tip. I love auctions!!!
Thanks for the freeware tip.
Ken
The only smart thing I did on that flight was to make sure there was not another human, animal, or vehicle nearby.
Thanks for the auction tip. I love auctions!!!
Thanks for the freeware tip.
Ken
02-10-2003, 05:21 PM
#31
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Alpha Trainer
I just recently started flying again after about 20 years. I purchased the alpha trainer ARF (I had my own radio, JR XF41 EX, from an unsuccessful electric).
The plane went together great. The only thing I noticed was the push rod for the throttle was not lined up properly and would bind. Solution, a tactically placed Z-bend. The engine runs great plenty of power (still using the three bladed prop).
I have only flown it three times (on the first day out) but it flew great. I performed loops rolls figure eight turns, very stable. Club instructors have done all takeoffs and landings so far but I feel pretty sure I could land and take off myself.
A word to "scattered balsa" or anyone learning to fly, do yourself a favor and buy a computer trainer simulator. I have the Real Flight G2 light. It is a great tool, the PT-40 Trainer on the simulator flyies about the same as the Alpha Trainer. When I started with the simulator I was crashing on it pretty regular but now I can land and do touch and go's with out much trouble and can even fly some of the more advanced planes on the simulator. It was well worth the price and crashes are not followed by the price of a new plane or a repair job $$.
The plane went together great. The only thing I noticed was the push rod for the throttle was not lined up properly and would bind. Solution, a tactically placed Z-bend. The engine runs great plenty of power (still using the three bladed prop).
I have only flown it three times (on the first day out) but it flew great. I performed loops rolls figure eight turns, very stable. Club instructors have done all takeoffs and landings so far but I feel pretty sure I could land and take off myself.
A word to "scattered balsa" or anyone learning to fly, do yourself a favor and buy a computer trainer simulator. I have the Real Flight G2 light. It is a great tool, the PT-40 Trainer on the simulator flyies about the same as the Alpha Trainer. When I started with the simulator I was crashing on it pretty regular but now I can land and do touch and go's with out much trouble and can even fly some of the more advanced planes on the simulator. It was well worth the price and crashes are not followed by the price of a new plane or a repair job $$.
02-10-2003, 11:18 PM
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Freeware Flight Model Simulator (FMS)
What cord do I need to connect my JR radio to my PC?
I have USB ports on the PC and a "buddy box" thing on my radio.
Is it a cord that connects the two?
Thanks
KB
I have USB ports on the PC and a "buddy box" thing on my radio.
Is it a cord that connects the two?
Thanks
KB
02-11-2003, 01:52 AM
#33
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REAL FLIGHT R/C SIMULATOR
I am not sure about the free ware simulator. I have the "Real Flight R/C Simulator, G2 Lite" by Great Planes. G2 Lite is the cheaper simulator by Great Planes, it has fewer different planes and air field options to choose from than the regular G2, but its more than enough for the beginner.
The G2 lite has about six different planes, two or three helicopters, three diferent air fields and three different skill levels. You can also control the wind direction, wind speed and thermals. The G2 lite comes with a USB interlink box whitch is a Futaba type radio transmitter box that connects to your USB port. The G2 lite also has a cord that connects to your JR radio from the trainer cord outlet on your radio to the interlink box. The interlink box is then connected to the USB port so you can use your actual JR radio.
I was a little hesitant about forking out the cash for the simulator (about the equivalant of the price of an airplane kit) but I was glad I did. You can practice anytime and not just on a trainer, they have a P-51 Mustang, and several sport planes. Its worth it in my opinion, you will be so far ahead of the game when you nail down an instructor to train you at the flying field and if it saves you just one totaled plane it has paid for it self. With all that said "Great Planes" should pay me a commission.
The G2 lite has about six different planes, two or three helicopters, three diferent air fields and three different skill levels. You can also control the wind direction, wind speed and thermals. The G2 lite comes with a USB interlink box whitch is a Futaba type radio transmitter box that connects to your USB port. The G2 lite also has a cord that connects to your JR radio from the trainer cord outlet on your radio to the interlink box. The interlink box is then connected to the USB port so you can use your actual JR radio.
I was a little hesitant about forking out the cash for the simulator (about the equivalant of the price of an airplane kit) but I was glad I did. You can practice anytime and not just on a trainer, they have a P-51 Mustang, and several sport planes. Its worth it in my opinion, you will be so far ahead of the game when you nail down an instructor to train you at the flying field and if it saves you just one totaled plane it has paid for it self. With all that said "Great Planes" should pay me a commission.
02-11-2003, 02:09 AM
#34
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New to RC Air - looking at new Hanger 9 Aplha trainer
Now for my two cents, always a day late and .98 cents short.
Real Flight G2 is an excellent training tool. You can crash as often as you like!
I recommend Getting a reputable ARF such as a Goldberg Eagle 2 or a SIG LT-40 and a good engine like an O.S. .46FX. Put all together yourself. You'll learn a lot more about how everything works that way. Take your time and do it right. Believe it or not I've seen more newbie failures attributed to the Ready To Fly Packages than assembling it yourself under the supervision of someone with experience. Local Hobby shops are great at this.
Ask around and find a good instructor. It's easier said than done, but if you find someone decent, stay with him until you can fly on your own.
Real Flight G2 is an excellent training tool. You can crash as often as you like!
I recommend Getting a reputable ARF such as a Goldberg Eagle 2 or a SIG LT-40 and a good engine like an O.S. .46FX. Put all together yourself. You'll learn a lot more about how everything works that way. Take your time and do it right. Believe it or not I've seen more newbie failures attributed to the Ready To Fly Packages than assembling it yourself under the supervision of someone with experience. Local Hobby shops are great at this.
Ask around and find a good instructor. It's easier said than done, but if you find someone decent, stay with him until you can fly on your own.
02-11-2003, 07:02 AM
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Re: Freeware Flight Model Simulator (FMS)
[Splinteredbalsa:
If you get a JR trainer cord it doesn't connect to your PC; it connects to another JR radio. You might have noticed that the JR radio has a trainer switch--that's so when the instructor holds the switch in on his radio you'll be able to control the plane through your radio, and when he releases the switch, he has control through his radio. As far as connecting your radio to your PC to use in concert with a simulator such as RealFlight or Easy Fly is concerned, you have to buy a cord that will allow you to do that. They're easy to find on eBay, but make sure you're not buying a Futaba cord. More info on using a trainer cord is available in your radio manual.
QUOTE]Originally posted by SPLINTEREDBALSA
What cord do I need to connect my JR radio to my PC?
I have USB ports on the PC and a "buddy box" thing on my radio.
Is it a cord that connects the two?
Thanks
KB [/QUOTE]
If you get a JR trainer cord it doesn't connect to your PC; it connects to another JR radio. You might have noticed that the JR radio has a trainer switch--that's so when the instructor holds the switch in on his radio you'll be able to control the plane through your radio, and when he releases the switch, he has control through his radio. As far as connecting your radio to your PC to use in concert with a simulator such as RealFlight or Easy Fly is concerned, you have to buy a cord that will allow you to do that. They're easy to find on eBay, but make sure you're not buying a Futaba cord. More info on using a trainer cord is available in your radio manual.
QUOTE]Originally posted by SPLINTEREDBALSA
What cord do I need to connect my JR radio to my PC?
I have USB ports on the PC and a "buddy box" thing on my radio.
Is it a cord that connects the two?
Thanks
KB [/QUOTE]
02-11-2003, 12:41 PM
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REAL FLIGHT G2
No need to buy any cord if you have the Real Flight G2, it comes with the cord to connect your JR radio to your computer through the interlink box and your JR radio's buddy box port.
02-12-2003, 04:36 AM
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Thanks!
I have been having a blast with the freeware just using the keyboard (lame) controls.
Seems like the Airbus Jet is easier to fly than the little Cessna looking plane.
I feel like Muhammed Atta the way I got that airliner swooping around. Even flies inverted! Fidelity???
I suppose in reality if you flew an airliner inverted the blue juice from the lavatory would turn the passengers into a bunch of pissed off Smurfs!
KB
Seems like the Airbus Jet is easier to fly than the little Cessna looking plane.
I feel like Muhammed Atta the way I got that airliner swooping around. Even flies inverted! Fidelity???
I suppose in reality if you flew an airliner inverted the blue juice from the lavatory would turn the passengers into a bunch of pissed off Smurfs!
KB
05-08-2003, 04:20 AM
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New to RC Air - looking at new Hanger 9 Aplha trainer
I`m fairly new at this game but can comment on the evolution
trainer engine system, it works well. It is preety slow with the three blade prop & flywheel, but get rid of that setup and its got bunches of power. I use a 10x6 with a duraplane trainer & 1 on a durastick also with 10x6. Starts, idles, shuts off and will go lots faster than I can. Darn tough also. JW
trainer engine system, it works well. It is preety slow with the three blade prop & flywheel, but get rid of that setup and its got bunches of power. I use a 10x6 with a duraplane trainer & 1 on a durastick also with 10x6. Starts, idles, shuts off and will go lots faster than I can. Darn tough also. JW
05-08-2003, 04:01 PM
#39
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Alpha Trainer
We have the new Alpha Trainer as our club trainer airplane with the Evolution Engine and JR Radio. The combo is really good.
Many of us flown the plane and it flies great. Our training director put it together and said it didn't take very long. The engine always starts right away and the plane flew right off the board without any trim changes.
We are all pleased with the airplane as a trainer and how do you go wrong with a complete New RTF airplane for $300? Buy it, it's from Horizon and they have the best Customer Service around.
Tim
Many of us flown the plane and it flies great. Our training director put it together and said it didn't take very long. The engine always starts right away and the plane flew right off the board without any trim changes.
We are all pleased with the airplane as a trainer and how do you go wrong with a complete New RTF airplane for $300? Buy it, it's from Horizon and they have the best Customer Service around.
Tim
