N1EDM

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Hmmm, I thought I posted this msg this morning, but it didn't seem to show up...

I just put a Javelin II on order today. The price seemed right, and I got tired of waiting for the CA Models Epsilon 40. Maybe that one will go on to my build list for next year.

Does anyone have any info/experience with the new Cermark Javelin II? The magazine and forum reviews seem favorable, but I take them all with a grain of salt. I'd rather hear about your personal experiences with it.

I know that the LG needs a little bit of work - it seems tippy while taxiing on grass. I can take care of that, I think. But, how about the rest of the plane? Is the quality as good as advertised?

How about flying? I'm going to stick with the recommended engine size, as I am only going to use this for practicing Sportsman pattern.

I'd be curious to hear your comments...

Thanks,

Bob

majortom-RCU

My Feedback: (40)

The Javelin is a beautiful flyer, and can be competitive at least through Intermediate. I flew mine with a YS 63, with the tank up under the canopy. When I do another, I will replace the slab rudder with built-up balsa to save tailweight. I routinely strip my ARFs and re-cover to my taste. My next Javelin will have CF landing gear attached to the fuselage, saving the weight and inconvenience of the wire struts mounted to the wing. I was continually rebending those wing struts, and not because of hard landings. I trimmed mine with 5 oz lead behind the firewall to get the recommended balance, and it was way noseheavy. I took all the ballast out, which moved the CG back another half inch, and it was perfect for me. The Javelin will benefit from lighter weight, so I would go with lithium ion batteries. I was using the lithium polymer, but the little extra weight in the lithium ion to me is worth it for the safety factor. The ailerons do need some differential. I just set up my aileron servo arms with neutral a couple notches forward of perpendicular to the pushrod. I used Futaba 9101's on ailerons, 9001 on rudder & elevators.

N1EDM

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Majortom,
Thanks for the tips. Your idea makes me think that I might want to also want to think about a built-up stab. It shouldn't be too much work. From the looks, it seems like the blue is a Transparent blue from UltraKote.

I was thinking about the landing gear too. I've never used LG in the wings before, and I was a little hesitant, especially where it's so close to the CG anyway (did you find it 'tippy' when you would taxi?)

I was also thinking about the CF gear, or else build my own from stiffer wire. Those wheels look awfully small. I was thinking of replacing them right off the bat with something larger (and lighter).

I'm planning on powering mine (initially) with a Irvine .46. It's got enough pull for the basic manuevers. As the airplane grows with me, I can always upgrade the engine.

Thanks for the tips. Do any other thoughts come to mind?

Bob

majortom-RCU

My Feedback: (40)

Stock gear will definitely give you nose-overs on grass fields. I replaced the stock wire struts with longer struts, angled forward to get them ahead of wing LE. Ground handling was OK that way, but the longer wire simply would not stand up to normal landings. I had to re-bend them after almost every landing. Home-made wire gear mounted to the fuselage with an added brace strut would work--I often like that solution myself. It will take a little innovating to get a base installed for mounting this arrangement. While you're in there working on that, you may want to remove the stock tank platform and reposition it for your Irvine. A .46 will do fine for power. I presume you'll be side-mounting it, or maybe angle it down to put the muffler at six o'clock.

I consider 2-1/2" wheels about as small as I can go on grass fields, and often go to 3" foam wheels.

If you're thinking of matching the blue covering, mine was a chrome blue, nothing I recognized from the monokote or ultracote lines. Not a problem for me, as I said, since I stripped all the covering and started over from the balsa. I don't care an awful lot how pretty the model is, as long as it's fuelproofed and easily visible in the sky. Some of those pattern maneuvers will put a small plane on the edge of what I can make out with my senior vision. Not that my color scheme was ugly, but it was simple and easily visible (Insignia Blue & Cub Yellow).

Saving tailweight is the nicest thing you can do to any model.

N1EDM

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Thanks for the advice, majortom.

Also, thanks for the heads-up on the covering. I thought I'd read somewhere that it was Oracover, but obviously, I'm mistaken. I looked at one ad and thought that the material looked transparent but I was wrong. And, I'll keep that tank platform in mind as well.

Have you come up with a source for CF gear? I just took a look at Fiberlite, and they seem to be out of stock on everything - they're trying to develop a new process. I checked another CF site and their gear is all for large models.

I thought you might like to know, I just came back from the Composite forum and I found a suggestion about going to http://www.carboncopyuk.com/ to see what they might have. Once my Javelin gets here, I can take a measurement of the fuse bottom width. I'm sure that some reinforcement will be required in the area.

Does anyone else have any comments on the Javelin II?

Thanks!!

Bob

compute42

My Feedback: (15)

I have this plane with an OS 46AX. Stock, no mods exept I bent the gear forward a little, otherwise you'll definatly have a nose over with a full tank. Fun plane, goes where you point it. I'm still not used to landing such a sleek plane, just doesn't slow down like my others!

~Andrew

majortom-RCU

My Feedback: (40)

As to the CF gear, I haven't looked seriously yet, but I thought probably there would be a set somewhere for the Somethin' Extra that might fit. The Javelin fuselage is rather narrow, so any gear that's readily available will probably have its hip bones sticking out, but so what?

Compute42 raises a point worth considering, which is getting the Javelin to land. Mine was not especially light on its wing-loading, so it was not a bear to land--as was my Venus, for instance, which would not touch the ground unless it had a good headwind or I killed the engine. By the time I did the Javelin I knew enough to set my Idle Down control on my Futaba 8U TX to get a very low landing idle--lower than flying idle; also set the Throttle Kill control. I hope you have something like that on your TX, or at least can idle down using your throttle trim.

N1EDM

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Thanks for the hint on the throttle speed on landing. My Irvine will idle nice and slow, and if I use a low-pitched prop, it should slow down OK, but I'll keep the throttle trim in mind.

I just had a thought on LG. It's not CF, but I wonder if the aluminum gear from a Sig Somethin' Extra would work? It seemed fairly strong when I had my SE (sold it, didn't crash it :-D ) and that might fit the bill without costing a years college tuition. If I remember right, the Sig SE had a fuse width of about 3" and nicely arched LG.

I wish I had some kind of tracking number for my Javelin... it went on order last Sunday.... I wonder if it's been shipped?

Bob

majortom-RCU

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The Javelin fuselage measures 3" wide on the nose.

N1EDM

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MajorTom,

Thanks for that dimension. In that case, if we can't find any CF gear (or it's too expensive) then we might be able to use that Sig SE landing gear. And, if we got to some foreign importer, then by my calculations, 3" = about 120mm, for reference...

Can't wait for my plane to arrive... Have a lot of nice ideas, including yours about making built-up tailfeathers...

Bob

N1EDM

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Hey, take a look at this!! Just for grins and giggles, I did a search on Google for "Javelin II" and look at what I came up with...

It's the same, only different.. I put it here just FYI.

http://www.cmldistribution.co.uk/air...cml_air029.htm

Bob

majortom-RCU

My Feedback: (40)

The Minicraft Javelin II is a new one on me. In fact I never heard of Minicraft until I saw a quarter scale Edge by Minicraft on the other auction site. The price was cheap, I was the only bidder, so I have one en route at this time. We'll see what we see when it gets here. There are very significant differences between the Minicraft Javelin II and the Cermark Javelin II.

N1EDM

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My Javelin came in today, and I started looking it over. My stock LG look pretty beefy, but I think they would suffer the same fate as yours all did - bend up on landing.

I may have found some composite gear at a reasonable price. The dimensions are a little flimsy, but

Look at CLG205 at te bottom of the page, used on the Kyosho Flip 3D. The Banshee E3D are a little taller (CLG206). They might be a just a little too tall.

http://www.tntlandinggear.com/store/...nding_gear.htm

Whaddaya think?

Bob

majortom-RCU

My Feedback: (40)

Bob, the stock LG struts wire size would be OK if they were made of tempered music wire (stiff), but they bend too easily for the first thing, and they are not long enough/forward enough to prevent nose-overs for the second thing. My replacement struts, same wire size, same not very stiff LG wire stocked in LHS, bent for longer struts and angled forward, were OK as far as ground handling went, but bent back on normal landings.

That's what led me to think CF struts, stiffer, more durable, keep their shape (or break or tear out LG mount). Any weight saving would be a bonus, but saving weight is not the main objective as I see it. Your candidates above I can't relate since I don't know the planes. The Flip 3D version is a bit small on the tracking width, and 1.5 oz doesn't sound like a lot of beef. The Banshee E3D version has no weight given, and the height does look rather tall--although the height can be compensated for by putting the LG mount plate higher in the fuselage (maybe--would have to take a closer look).

I would suggest you look at http://graphtechrc.com/Secure/mall/maingear.asp, which seems to have a wider selection of gear in the range you want for size & weight. Their #133 for Sig 4* 40, #164 for .60 Stinger, #196 for UCD .46 are all in the $25 range price-wise, beefier than 1.5 oz, and look to be adaptable size wise.

If you can talk to the people at GraphTech and tell them what you're looking for, maybe they could suggest something more specific. Keep us posted on what you find.

N1EDM

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I hadn't heard about Fraftech, tom. I'll take a pee,

I wasn't considering the wire LG at all - just making a comment on it. The 5-1/2" height for the Flip 3D seemed about right though I agree they were a bit narrower. As for the weight, well, that's CF. As I noted, the profile was a little bit narrow.

I'll take a look at your link. It sounds promising.... I don't think we can go wider than 3" - in fact, 3" is a little bit wide with that radius in the fuse. But I don't think anyone will notice except us...

Talk to you soon,

Bob

majortom-RCU

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I see on another thread some guys complaining about GraphTech being un-responsive lately, plus woes with CF gear de-laminating. One post suggested RCSupergear.com for unilinear CF gear (non-laminated), so I took a look. They have a Q-500 set that might fill the bill, although pricier than the GraphTech offerings. The thread was on a Hangar 9 Edge, if you want to search for it--or search on "RCSupergear". All this talk is giving me the itch to order another Javelin. But I have to get my YS63 back from PerformanceSpecialties first.

N1EDM

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Hi Tom,
I started looking at the fuse tonight. That fuel tank floor comes all the way back to the wing LE Bulkhead. While I could get blind nuts in there for a fuse-mounted LG, there is no way I could get inside there to reinforce the bottom to take the stresses of the LG. I may just try to make up some stiffer LG for the stock position.

Another problem that I thought about is that, with this wingspan, if the gear doesn't have enough tread, the plane is going to be tippy laterally. I don't think you could get away with anything less than 15" tread.

If/when you get another Javelin II, if you recover it as you mentioned earlier, then it'd be an easy job to go in and reinforce the LG area properly and then cover it up.

I see where TNT will give you a custom quote on gear. I was originally going to do that... using 1/8" aluminum. I think that 3/32" is just a bit too thin and weak..

I was under the impression that you were actively flying a Javelin II. What happened to it? Does this have anything to do with your engine at Performance Specialties??

Just curious about your (or anyone else's) opinion

Thanks,

Bob

majortom-RCU

My Feedback: (40)

Sorry if I gave the wrong impression. I put my Javelin into a treetop last fall. It was up there a few weeks before I found a treeclimber to retrieve it. By the time I got someone to go look at it with me, the wind had blown it down onto a killer stump, and that was the end of that. I did not have high hopes for the state of the engine sitting out in the weather like that, and when I tried turning it over this spring it had no compression to speak of.

As to the landing gear, cutting into the fuselage would be the better way to put in a solid mounting plate. However, with a little more careful measuring and cutting, you could cut a couple pieces of quarter-inch birch ply, something maybe 1-1/2" x ~2-1/2" (whatever the inside width is between the plywood side doublers), cut the ends at 45Ëš to fit snug against the tri-stock balsa that's in there, epoxy them in one on top of the other, then drill from the outside and tap for 1/4" nylon gear mounting bolts. You might need a lighted inspection mirror to be sure everything fits together nicely inside. I really think cutting in from the outside is easier. You could make the cut just wide enough to accept the base of the gear, and mount the gear recessed by the thickness of the balsa you remove. Touch up any exposed balsa with epoxy for fuel-proofing, and no one would ever know from a topside view.

I do favor nylon bolts for mounting landing gear on this size plane, so that if you do have a hard landing the gear can break free by popping the bolt heads, instead of tearing out the mounting plate from the fuselage. Many's the time I've just put in new nylon bolts and got right back flying after an ugly deadstick or whatever.

I'm sure there are sources for tempered music wire (just nothing local that I've found), and that's what I would suggest for new wing struts. You'd also need a wire bender, which can be ordered from K&S if you don't have one.

As to the treetop, my depth perception never was very good. That gets me into trouble at times.

N1EDM

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Hi Tom,
I wonder if they changed the construction at all. The way that mine is built, I have absolutely no access to the proposed LG mount area from the inside. The tank floor is securely glued in there. I'd have to break wood to get it out and have access to where I'd be applying the reinforcement.

I'm going to go with the stock gear for now, and some 2-1/2" light foam wheels. Maybe after I get some hangar rash on the plane, I might not feel so reluctant to cut things away.

I'm going to go with my Irvine .46 mounted inverted, with stock muffler. I'm going to try a 11x6 or 11x7 prop for starts and go from there. I've heard that a Fun-Fly prop gives good performance, but haven't talked to anyone who knows for sure...

I'm also going to do something about the covering on the bottom to make it more noticable while flying. That blue covering scheme is going to be difficult to see in a blue sky with puffy white clouds.

Sorry to hear about your Javelin II. I could picture your delimma because my field has some plane-grabbing trees off one end of the funway, only a couple hundred feet from the an area where gravity is doubled, and sucks some planes down to the ground. Funny how these things only happen at flying fields. I've been victimized too.

One of our trees is especially cruel. It caught a buddy's plane and when we got there, we could see that there was only a small hole in the covering. However, before we could get the plane down, the tree actually threw the plane towards the ground, just out of our reach, and smashed one side of the wing...

I'm really pleased with the overall construction of this plane. The entire top seems to be made out of molded fiberglass. So far, it looks really well built...

Bob

majortom-RCU

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Six inch pitch is about as low as I'd go on the prop, but that will do fine. I would not go into the 3D prop range of 5 inch pitch & below. I guess I forgot about the tank floor, which I removed on mine. The top is fiberglass back to the area above the wing TE. The turtleback is balsa sheet.

Thanks for the sympathy, but I get over these things quickly. Whatever plane I'm flying, I always keep notes as to how I'd do another one, so when it crashes I have something positive to look forward to.

Did I mention CG? The manual recommends 5-13/16" back from leading edge at the fuselage. I had mine at 6-1/2" and liked it much better, giving a nice flat glide. I originally set it up at the given CG and it flew way noseheavy.

N1EDM

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Thanks, Tom... and I'd heard that the hardware wasn't that great too. I forgot to mention that I was going to change that out as well, and possibly nylon hinges.. Too bad it's such a nice weekend to fly - now, I wont' be able to start the plane until Sunday night :-D

Bob

majortom-RCU

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Nice for sure. I burned up a lot of sky today. I have the Accell Katana ARF which I was trimming and mixing today. I built it with the provided linkage, and the slop reminded me not to do that. I normally like the Dubro ball links on everything.

N1EDM

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Ball links on the control surfaces? You had me going there until I looked them up. I was thinking about the nylon ball that goes over the round metal post. You mean the ball links...

I'm using Sullivan metal control horns and clevises. Those should be slop-free enough for the Javelin. I might change out the metric engine mount hardware for ANSI hardware. I'm going to have to manicure the engine mounts a little bit so that the Irvine will fit in there. I have to shave about .055 off of each mount - not much. There's no room to move the engine mounts outboard at all. I have a miller at work that I can do that on in about 5 minutes.

Is that Katana the G70 Profile that you're flying? It's a nice looking plane.

Bob

majortom-RCU

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I have the G40, had to bite on the special at OMP. But now that I have it, I'm looking at the 70 to maybe upgrade later this season. This is all preliminary to getting the Funtana 90 in the air. That will be the keeper, I think.

Yeah, the Dubro ball links that move slop free on every axis. I like them more and more. Only problem is I keep dropping the little brass spacers and can't ever find them again.

tconnell

My Feedback: (7)

Hey all,

Thought I would just put my thoughts in here. I have on my shelf my 3rd Javeline II. I have been really hard at practicing pattern with this ship and it is one of the best I have flown in some time. Time being about 45 years in this hobby. With an OS 46 AX in the nose this thing is something else.

I think you that are talking about CF gear are going to be wasting money, lots of time and for very little improvement. Before you put your gear in the wings, just put them in a vice and bend them forward about 10 degrees. This only brings the height of the plane down about 3/8 to 1/2 inch. Not enough to bother with. I fly off a grass field, a turf grass field to be exact, but we have a good bit of rocks in this soil and when they bring the machine in and harvest the grass we have mostly hard packed soil with the rocks, some about good sized marbles. On landing this thing, it's meant to be sleek and it is just on rails at speed... but you have to plan your pattern on landing. I fly real planes too, so I always set up a landing pattern and when I get to a point across from me on downwind, I throttle back to just a tad above idle and turn on base and if I need to increase or decrease my touchdown point I can do that with throttle. I try to make 3 point landings with the Javeline as wheel landings here don't do too well. I also switch to low rates on takeoff and landings as I don't want to make any sudden attitude changes at low speed and low altitude with this plane.

I bent the gear, moved the CG back about 3/4 inches, upgraded the hardware just a tad and fly. It's really a sweet plane and I probably will get this other one in the air in about 3 weeks as I'm trying to finish a Sig 1/4 Clipped Wing Cub that I started back in 1983. I'm just getting back into the hobby in the past 8 months and have built 9 planes in that tme. So I've been rather busy.

Just my thoughts. Take care.

Tommy