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Always ARF.

Old 10-19-2005, 03:14 AM
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panzerd18
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Default Always ARF.

I don't see the point why I would go out of my way to buy a kit. With so many great ARF's on the market and such a big variety, I will always choose ARF over a kit.

The problem with kits is most people don't have the time to build them. Also people don't want to build (although some enjoy it) but just want to fly the dam thing. A big turnoff for me buying a kit is the fact that I have to cover the model. An ARF has the covering already on and it’s detailed with different graphics etc. On a kit covering is a real pain to do it right and you have to buy decals to make it look like the ARF single sheet of covering.

There are some positives to kits over ARF's but for me I will choose an ARF just because the final product will look better than if I built it myself.

panzerd
Old 10-19-2005, 06:40 AM
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ckangaroo70
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Default RE: Always ARF.


ORIGINAL: panzerd18
On a kit covering is a real pain to do it right and you have to buy decals to make it look like the ARF single sheet of covering.
panzerd
Could you please explain this in a little more detail? I am not sure of what you mean by "single sheet of covering".
Old 10-19-2005, 07:06 AM
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panzerd18
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Default RE: Always ARF.

For example the ARF model is wrapped in one sheet with all the graphics already printed on the one sheet. With a kit, if you want to use different colours you need to use more than one sheet, also you have to apply the decals.
Old 10-19-2005, 07:06 AM
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Default RE: Always ARF.

Panz,
I know what you mean, but it will always be a dilema for me. If you know how to build a kit will last longer than any ARF. I have had about 30 planes in my lifetime and the kit built are still with me. All the ARF's suffered some failure of a kind or other and I have always added epoxy and additional wood in several key joints to improve survivability, but there are some places that you just can't reach once the covering in on. AND if you're patient and have time (something few of us have) covering yourself can be quite rewarding. And while all my ARF's eventually peel, the ones I covered have not. I use balsarite wood treatment for film or fabric to really make it stick. I have 3 little kids and a wife, full time job that keeps me away 12 hours a day and still make time for building, covering, repairs and maintenance. It is frustrating and wasteful as you suggest, but even if I spend 5 mins in the shop each night, its 5 mins forward toward the eventual product. I usually wake up an hour earlier about 4am and get some work done or wait til everyone is asleep to push through. What can I tell you? I just love this hobby. Obssesive-compulse? Yes! And have no apology. It's better that hanging around at happy hour or watching mind-numbing TV. And if you teach a kid how to fly, that's one less "gang-banger" to vandalize your car radio....
Old 10-19-2005, 07:07 AM
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Default RE: Always ARF.

ORIGINAL: panzerd18
....the final product will look better than if I built it myself.
And that will always be true if you don't develop those skills my friend.

Myself, I can't get past the printed plastic toy-like appearance, especially when I see several of these 'clones' lined up at the field. Too Orwellian I guess.

I feel sorry for die-hard ARF fans ... what do they do when the weather doesn't co-operate? Read clone review articles in MAN I guess "Gule the wing halves together with epoxy ... two clicks of right and a click of down ..."

As for not having time ... I gave up the boob tube, and am far better for it.
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Old 10-19-2005, 07:12 AM
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BillS
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Default RE: Always ARF.

… the final product will look better than if I built it myself.
How true.

However those in the ‘kit building’ forum are preparing to tar and feather you.

Bill
Old 10-19-2005, 07:30 AM
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Default RE: Always ARF.


ORIGINAL: panzerd18

For example the ARF model is wrapped in one sheet with all the graphics already printed on the one sheet. With a kit, if you want to use different colours you need to use more than one sheet, also you have to apply the decals.
What kind of Plane do you have? Sounds like a VMAR to me! Only ARF Manufacturer I know of that incorpararates the graphics into there cheap covering.
Old 10-19-2005, 07:31 AM
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Default RE: Always ARF.

What I don't understand is why there needs to be this constant bickering between people who want to build kits versus those who want to assemble ARFs. This hobby is about enjoyment. If one enjoys kit building, they will make the time to do so. If one doesn't enjoy kit building, what's the bid deal? It doesn't matter whether it's a lack of time, desire, or even skills, nobody should have to justify the choices they make in their pursuit of recreation.
Old 10-19-2005, 07:35 AM
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RK-Aircraft
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Default RE: Always ARF.

Chuck,
I don't think anyone is bickering, its just that we lament that we can't have it all, but there nothing wrong with wanting.
Old 10-19-2005, 07:36 AM
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Default RE: Always ARF.

Jim
Great Looking Plane! The original poster here must not have any that look like that at his field!
Old 10-19-2005, 07:45 AM
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Default RE: Always ARF.


ORIGINAL: piper_chuck

What I don't understand is why there needs to be this constant bickering between people who want to build kits versus those who want to assemble ARFs. This hobby is about enjoyment. If one enjoys kit building, they will make the time to do so. If one doesn't enjoy kit building, what's the bid deal? It doesn't matter whether it's a lack of time, desire, or even skills, nobody should have to justify the choices they make in their pursuit of recreation.
I agree with you Chuck, but when a person comes into a forum such as this, and makes a statement such as this, that person who started this post is obviously looking for peoples reactions. So he is getting just what a post such as this will get.
I have a few ARFs in the hangar, and several Planes I built myself. Since I have both types of aircraft, I feel I have the right to give my opinion on the differences I see, and my opinion is just my own opinion, and the original poster can take what they want from it, which may be nothing.
Old 10-19-2005, 07:49 AM
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ckangaroo70
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Default RE: Always ARF.


ORIGINAL: panzerd18
The problem with kits

panzerd
When you include wording like this into your post, it will usually generate a response!
Old 10-19-2005, 08:01 AM
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Jim_McIntyre
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Default RE: Always ARF.

ORIGINAL: piper_chuck
What I don't understand is why there needs to be this constant bickering between people who want to build kits versus those who want to assemble ARFs....
Bickering? Nothing wrong with discussion, even debating (in a friendly way of course) the merits?

My issues are;
- impressions on those entering the hobby ; ARF afficionados tend to make building sound like a difficult and unecessary chore with little reward for effort
- safety ; Although most high end companies are addressing flaws in design and manufacturing, the rest continue to churn out substandard hazards that threaten the very existence of our unregulated hobby.[:@]

---------------

And thanks ckangaroo70. I think many newbies are not exposed to handcrafted aircraft these days, the standard now appears to be the rows of cookie cutter ARF YAKs with stick on markings and printed panel lines etc. you seen at most local fields. [:'(]
Old 10-19-2005, 08:15 AM
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RK-Aircraft
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Default RE: Always ARF.

Jim,

Love the Tiger Moth. One of my favorites. But I haven't seen one with enclosed cockpit. I assembled an ARF one from Arizona Models but had lots of problems with CG and some building flaws that I couldn't correct so I sold it after the maiden flight. Some day I'll try again. My current bipe is a Giant Aeromaster that I'm very happy with. I am planning to go from a US41 to a G62 on it this week. Yes, this is a kit!
Old 10-19-2005, 08:34 AM
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Jim_McIntyre
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Default RE: Always ARF.

Thanks!

The Canopy is the C variant (built by DeHaviland Canada), mine is from the Clarke kit.

A very nice flyer, I finished mine in 1998 and she was photographed by Palmer Johnson at the Chatham Scale event this summer, for the cover of next month's FRCC Magazine. [8D]

Old 10-19-2005, 08:54 AM
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RK-Aircraft
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Default RE: Always ARF.

Beautiful! I have heard of the clarke kit. What is the wing span?
Old 10-19-2005, 09:48 AM
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Default RE: Always ARF.

Hey you’re right. I have a VMAR Tomahawk and it has graphics printed onto the one sheet of covering film.

I'm not saying that ALL ARF's have better covering than kits. I'm saying ARF's do a better job at covering than me. People who have mastered the covering iron would in fact produce better covered models than ARF's.

As another person posted, kits are stronger. I just hope my ARF does not fold its wings from the absence of glue!!!!

I was not meaning to aggravate anyone in my post, as I was just frustrated that if I do buy a kit it wont look as good as an ARF if I'm making it.
Old 10-19-2005, 10:54 AM
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Jim_McIntyre
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Default RE: Always ARF.

ORIGINAL: garcay
Beautiful! I have heard of the clarke kit. What is the wing span?
Thanks again. Wingspan is 88 inches.
More pics and info on my website (url in my sig).
Old 10-19-2005, 01:03 PM
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ckangaroo70
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Default RE: Always ARF.


ORIGINAL: panzerd18

Hey you’re right. I have a VMAR Tomahawk and it has graphics printed onto the one sheet of covering film.

I'm not saying that ALL ARF's have better covering than kits. I'm saying ARF's do a better job at covering than me. People who have mastered the covering iron would in fact produce better covered models than ARF's.

As another person posted, kits are stronger. I just hope my ARF does not fold its wings from the absence of glue!!!!

I was not meaning to aggravate anyone in my post, as I was just frustrated that if I do buy a kit it wont look as good as an ARF if I'm making it.
There was no offense taken. Subjects like this always generate alot of debate from people like me. The VMAR Planes are also another hot debatable subject, but I won't start that arguement here. I will give you a friendly tip though and tell you that I would indeed go over every glue joint you can reach with some thin CA on the Vmar. Also make sure to make sure your firewall is epoxied in good. I had a Vmar Aero Subaru, and the Firewall just flopped out the front of it on taxi before its maiden flight. Needless to say, I was not pleased! Below is pictured my old Aero Subaru, and also a picture of my current build I am working on which is a Sig Hog Bipe. Been a pretty enjoyable kit to build!
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Old 10-19-2005, 02:21 PM
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Default RE: Always ARF.

Arfs are great, and of course some are better than others, I found out after getting out of the hobby for a while then coming back, that there are very few builders left who really know how to build the right way, I am thankful for an old time experienced builder who helped me learn when I started in the 80's because I put those skills to use in repairing arfs, but as always there will never be every plane you want offered in arf form so why not compromise and learn how to build a kit once in a while because every one can benefit.
Old 10-19-2005, 02:56 PM
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Default RE: Always ARF.

As I see it, modeling has become 2 different hobbies. There are builders, and there are flyers. If you do both, then you have 2 hobbies. I have been building since about 1960 or so, and still enjoy it a lot. I do also fly ARFs, but mostly so I have something to fly while I build. Until about 8 years ago, it was all the same hobby to me; "Building & Flying Models Airplanes".
Old 10-19-2005, 05:25 PM
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Default RE: Always ARF.

This is a good topic but I hope it does not get into bashing builders vs ARFs .
I see value in both .
Kits - I love to build , scale a plane out as much as possible , but dont have the time - dont choose the time over coaching my kids in sports. They grow so fast that god willing some day I will have time to build .

ARFs- nice but personally I love to add my own taiste .
I love ww2 planes but most middle $$$ of the road ARFs all have some tweek needed to meet my anal needs-lol . I have the VQP40 , I made my own shark mouth , H9 Corsiar , painting it in the three color scheme , added doors and interior ,
Global P40 , just could not have a P40 with P51 gear so I added robart and flaps -haha- I could have built a kit for that investment ,
Next project GSP 73" P40 -(yes I love the P40 ties) I will bash the tail , add flaps , interior ect ect . I think ARfs serve a nice purpose , you can add mods to make it "yours" there fast to assemble , they usually provide a value , they expand the hobby to new members who may not want to build , and they add excitment in this "Get it now & fast"world we live in !!! If it was not for ARfs , I would have never flown a warbird because I dont have the time to build them
Old 10-19-2005, 06:08 PM
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Default RE: Always ARF.

I have done a half and half. I bought the U-Can-Do and tore all the covering off. After this was done I was pretty pleased with how it was put together. Very strong and well done. Then I covered it the way I wanted to. All the speed of ARF with the personal touch of a kit...sort of.

Plus I saved about a half a pound.
Old 10-19-2005, 07:00 PM
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Default RE: Always ARF.

I am currantly building the Super Skybolt kit. Started it about....oh....12 months ago. I really enjoy the occasional "quiet time" in my shop building. ( logging approx 60 minutes or so each time ) I really dont care how long it takes to finish ...just means I'll be looking for another project! And of course, another engine and......so on..... Meanwhile, I really enjoy flying my ( 3 ) arfs and 1 Park Flyer. ( Throw in that electric plane and I quess that makes THREE hobbies!! )

good thing I dont play golf too

life is good in the RC world !!!
Old 10-19-2005, 07:07 PM
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Default RE: Always ARF.

To me building is a separate hobby, and Scale building is an even different hobby.

I admire the people that have the patients and time to build.

I truly admire the scale builders, there is nothing better than a tricked out scale airplane.

Flying is a different hobby.

You assemble an ARF, you build a Kit.

I understand why some people don't like ARF's and why some people don't build. Personally the only plane that shows up more than one at a time is the Chapman CAP .40 and the Great Planes Ucando. But our club is kind of small at only 210 members, and there are several clubs in the area.

One thing I don't like is pictures of ARF's in the subscribers plane sections of magazines. I don't understand that, I want to see something different or at least kit built. Just recently I've been seeing ARF's and I just don't get it.

Personally, my first two planes were kit built, a goldberg ultimate and a ultra sport 1000. Every one since has been ARF, I just don't have the time, and enjoy flying so what else am I to do.

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