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Hangar 9 Funtana 40

Old 07-22-2006, 06:24 AM
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T.W.
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Default Hangar 9 Funtana 40

I've read lots of reports about the handling of this model, and they have been quite varied covering everything from "horrible" to "perfect." I've got mine "dialled-in" as good as I can possibly get it now (I think!). It took more than 30 trimming flights to settle on this cg, and it's flying ok-ish now, having had the balance everywhere from massively nose-heavy to ridiculously tail-heavy. However: it still isn't as good as I'd hoped it was going to be when I bought it

It's a safe enough flier "flown normally," and it will do all the "normal" stuff ok too (big loops, fast and slow rolls, stall-turns, etc - it even flies inverted almost hands-off and will do a nice blender too), but it's not as "comfortable" to fly as most of my previous models have been and it's a non-starter where 3D is concerned. Tight loops are impossible for instance, as the model "rolls-out" even on "tiny" rates (tail heavy?). And the rudder is less effective than it ought to be, which results in very poor knife-edge (nose-heavy?). It is also impossible to fly really slowly, because it will then flick-roll (without me asking), and hariers produce so much wing-wobble that it's just laughable

So, you guys who have one of these and can fly really slowly, do tight loops, knife-edge 'till the cows come home, etc: Exactly where is your balance point - "exactly please"

Thanks (in anticipation of finding-out where I'm going wrong)

Tony


Old 07-22-2006, 09:53 PM
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FREEBIRD
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Default RE: Hangar 9 Funtana 40

A guy in our club has one with a 4 stroke .72 and a large prop, it flys very well, I've seen it torque roll, tumble etc. no problem. What are you using for an engine?
Old 07-23-2006, 07:14 AM
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T.W.
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Default RE: Hangar 9 Funtana 40

Thanks for your response FreeBird, but power is not an issue here. I just need to know the "exact" balance point good-flying Hangar 9 Funtana 40's are using. Maybe you could ask the pilot of the model you mention? I'd be grateful. Thanks

Tony
Old 07-23-2006, 08:33 PM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 Funtana 40

T.W. , What engine are you using? I'm exeriencing about the same problems/frustration as you are and am running a Saito 91. It's a great engine but I'm really not so sure if it's the one for this plane. I don't recall where my CG is, I'd have to check. One of the guys at our flying field is running a Saito 72 and seems to preferr that.
Old 07-24-2006, 01:59 AM
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T.W.
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Default RE: Hangar 9 Funtana 40

Thanks for this rclement, but it really isn't a power issue - it's a balance or cg problem. I just need to know "exactly" where the "good-flying" Hangar 9 Funtana 40's are being balanced

As I said previously: So you guys who have one of these and can fly really slowly, do tight loops, knife-edge 'till the cows come home, etc: Exactly where is your balance point - "exactly please"

Tony
Old 07-24-2006, 12:03 PM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 Funtana 40

I have a Funtana 40 with the leading edge of the wing modified to give much greater airfoil. The new Funtana 90 is modified this way. I set my CG per the plan and then fly a 45 degree upline inverted and if it arcs toward the ground add weight to tail till it continues on a straght line. I have one ounce on tail. Plane flies perfect on 45 degree upline either side up. The Saito 91 engine is the engine of choice for me with the APC 15X4W prop. If you desire I can send picture of the leading edge modification that makes these planes fly great without tip stalling. I understand Horizon will probably be modifying the 40 in the near future like the 90. My friend Wayne Mayer modified mine for me as it was his design. Current leading edge is a piece of 1/8th thick balsa rounded off. Easy fix to add one half inch thick piece on top of new 1/8th inch piece and fashion a new air foil that works.
Old 07-24-2006, 01:03 PM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 Funtana 40

First of all T.W. I unfortunately do not have the answer to your question. I am on my second year flying mine and always feel like a dog chasing my tail when it comes to its CG. It seems I have all the same experiences with this plane as you have. This is my 4th plane with what I would call a natural progression into 3D as my last plane was a Somethin' Extra. I want to pull my Extra back of the barn as it flew like a dream. I had higher expectations for the Funtana 40 as I have never felt comfortable behind the sticks with it. I have seen this plane fly brilliantly (video only) so I know it has the potential to be flown correctly. I also would be very interested in what CG people are using who can fly this in a 3D fashion as it should be. I would also be interested in what plane people have flown as alternative 40 size 3D that can vouch for over a Funtana 40... Twist maybe?

fyi: I am using Saito 82 w/ 14x4 apc
Old 07-24-2006, 06:04 PM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 Funtana 40

Hi dickj, Thanks for what you have said. I'm very interested in your aerofoil modification - although as my model is still in perfect "as new" condition (despite it frequently trying to stall into the ground!) I don't really "want" to start doing this kind of mod yet . . . . but then again, if all else fails I will do it, because I'm just not enjoying flying this lovely-looking model anywhere near as much as I ought to be doing. So yes, please send me a picture of the modification to your wing. I hadn't considered that the aerofoil might be at fault, but after taking a look at the leading edge on mine I can see that it's probably much too flat - and I know that a flat leading edge can cause stalls. So maybe the balance point is not to blame for my problem after all! I can fly hands-off at half-throttle right-side-up, inverted she drops a little. Just enough so that I know she's not tail-heavy. I don't need to push the stick more than 1mm forward to hold the nose up inverted - so by my reckoning it ought to be balanced just on the safe side of perfect - but it sure doesn't fly that way!

Thanks for your comments too HercDoc. I know exactly what you mean about "chasing your tail" with the cg. I've had my cg at 5" and 6" - and at every 1/16" between the two, and I couldn't find a "really good" place for it. But bearing in mind what dickj has said, maybe it's not a cg problem after all. I read about another model which would stall far too easily a couple of years ago, and the modelling press came to this same conclusion: it needed a better leading edge. To prove the point they did a modification and it transformed the model . . . . I think you just might have solved my problem dickj, so I look forward to seeing how you improved your wing

Tony
Old 07-25-2006, 01:12 PM
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rclement
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Default RE: Hangar 9 Funtana 40


ORIGINAL: dickj

I have a Funtana 40 with the leading edge of the wing modified to give much greater airfoil. The new Funtana 90 is modified this way. I set my CG per the plan and then fly a 45 degree upline inverted and if it arcs toward the ground add weight to tail till it continues on a straght line. I have one ounce on tail. Plane flies perfect on 45 degree upline either side up. The Saito 91 engine is the engine of choice for me with the APC 15X4W prop. If you desire I can send picture of the leading edge modification that makes these planes fly great without tip stalling. I understand Horizon will probably be modifying the 40 in the near future like the 90. My friend Wayne Mayer modified mine for me as it was his design. Current leading edge is a piece of 1/8th thick balsa rounded off. Easy fix to add one half inch thick piece on top of new 1/8th inch piece and fashion a new air foil that works.
Dickj, I'd love to see the pics of the mod. Please post them.
Old 07-26-2006, 04:35 AM
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T.W.
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Default RE: Hangar 9 Funtana 40

I just traced around the tip and root of my H9 Funtana's wing onto a piece of card so that I can see exactly what the leading-edge profile looks like - and I've discovered that the aerofoil is worse than I had first thought. Not only is the starboard leading edge much blunter than the port, the shape also changes every few inches across the span too! So I guess I really do have to do your modification Dickj! Any change of seeing your pix please?

Tony
Old 07-29-2006, 04:58 AM
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T.W.
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Default RE: Hangar 9 Funtana 40

dickj - I'm off to the model shop this afternoon to see if I can get some leading-edge stock to replace the "blunt" l.e. which must be causing my problem. Any chance of seeing your pix before I start modifying my wings?

Tony
Old 07-31-2006, 04:47 PM
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mikedsilva
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Default RE: Hangar 9 Funtana 40

interesting thread.
2 guys at my local club just imported these kits and maidened them on Sunday.
One is using a magnum 80 fourstroke, the other a magnum 91 four stroke.
Both planes flew fine on low rates but still snapped out of a tight loop. They were so disappointed that i got one of them for $100!
I am planning to fit my OS91 surpassII and have a crack at getting it right. So I am curious to see what the modifications are as well.

However, i must say, that i am surprised that a plane with such high regard, requires modifications to make it fly well... shouldn't it fly fine straight out of the box?
How come some guys are raving about them, and others are complaining?

Seems strange to me...
Old 07-31-2006, 04:55 PM
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T.W.
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Default RE: Hangar 9 Funtana 40

Maybe there's some difference in the experience of the pilots concerned? Or perhaps there's a difference between different "batches" or production runs. I know one thing for sure: My Funtana isn't the sweet-flying machine I expected it to be. I've modified the leading edge of mine now and am looking forwards to test-flying it just as soon as we get some flying weather. I'm convinced I'll see a big difference in the flying
Old 07-31-2006, 09:24 PM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 Funtana 40

have you got some photos of your modification?
what exactly did you do?

regards
mike.
Old 08-01-2006, 01:48 AM
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T.W.
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Default RE: Hangar 9 Funtana 40

Hi Mike, yes I do have pix of what I did, but I haven't flown the model since completing the modification just yesterday. So I'll hold-fire until I've done some flying with it - although looking at the shape of the new l.e. I just "know" it's going to work much better than the original

The guy who alerted me to the bad aerofoil was dickj (see his post above), and he's been flying his modded wing for a while now - as has his pal Wayne, who modded his own and dickj's Funtana wing. Dickj kindly sent me pix and a drawing of his wing's mod (thanks again dickj) - maybe he'll post some of them here if we ask him?

Tony
Old 08-01-2006, 10:40 AM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 Funtana 40

Could we get some pics of this mod please?
Old 08-04-2006, 04:58 PM
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T.W.
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Default RE: Hangar 9 Funtana 40

Update: Today I flew my Funtana with it's modified wing. And it flew much better than it flew previously on its standard wing. With the modded wing it will "Harrier" without excessive wing-rock, it stalls only when pushed very hard to do so, and then "straight-ahead" instead of flicking into a spin. It will also do reasonably tight loops without trying to roll out

But it's the landings which have seen the most improvement. Now I can slow the model down to a really slow landing speed - and am still able to pick the nose up for a very gentle fared touch-down (even dropping the tail-wheel first is easily done). Great! All I did was follow dickj's advice to modify the wing's leading edge and it's transformed the handling completely

The modification involves nothing more than removing the original 1/8-inch "blunt" leading edge and (in my case) replacing it with a nicely-rounded-off 1/2-inch one. Great results for a couple of hours work! Many thanks to dickj for pointing me in the right direction

Tony
Old 08-04-2006, 09:35 PM
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mikedsilva
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Default RE: Hangar 9 Funtana 40

i have a question regarding the CG.
i dont have the manual in front of me right now, but i seem to remember it said to measure from the leading edge of the wing as on the fuselage.

Does that mean you measure the CG from the front of the actual wing? or from the front of the cutout of the wing saddle...

mike
Old 08-04-2006, 11:01 PM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 Funtana 40

I am thoroughly confused by these posts. On my under construction model the airfoil changes from a symetrical at the tip to a not symetrical after the first bay inboard from the tip(more like a M12 flatter on the bottom). It is consistant from there to the root. A modification of 1/2 inch or 1 inch at the leading edge will in no way result in a consistant airfoil tip to root.

Really need some photos or sketches to show the problem and mod.
Old 08-05-2006, 05:19 AM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 Funtana 40

Mikedsilva: Measure from the wing's leading edge aong-side the fuz. Dlwood: Are we talking about the same model here? My Hangar 9 Funtana didn't need any constructing as it's ARTF. You said: "A modification of 1/2 inch or 1 inch at the leading edge will in no way result in a consistant airfoil tip to root." Well, I don't think anyone actually claimed that the mod produces a constant airfoil - and I don't see how this would be possible anyway with a tapering wing which maintains uniform thickness at the main-spar from tip to root. All I said (and all dickj said) is that the model flies a whole lot better with a slightly extended and nicely rounded-off l.e. in place of the blunt one it came with. And it does. The differnce is massive

Tony
Old 08-05-2006, 10:16 AM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 Funtana 40

I would love to see some pictures.
Phillip
Old 08-05-2006, 10:23 AM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 Funtana 40

This is an interesting idea. I wonder though will do the outrageous 3D with the new wing? I had 200 flights on mine before a rudder servo cost me the plane. It never would do a tight loop and KE flight was best done Harrier style. However it was unreal to watch it fly. I have seen several sponsored pilots fly and their 40% stuff would not do some of the things the F40 would do.
BTW the best CG I found was 6-1/4". This was the best compromise between great 3D and being able to land it. Also the stock ELEV travel is lacking. It needs 55 degrees of up and down to really get wild.

David
Old 08-05-2006, 10:54 AM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 Funtana 40

TW

We are talking the same model. By using the term under construction I was indicating that my model is in the assembly process and has not flown!! Sheesh.

Use of a contour gague on the leading edge clearly shows a transition in the airfoil from the end bay to the rest of the wing. The leading edge is relatively blunt on the inner section. It is hard to visualize what you are talking about and how the transitions are managed.

At a local fun fly I witnessed a spectacular display of 3d flying by a young man with a Saito 100
powered S40. A nother flyer said his Tower 75 powered S40 flew much "heavier". I do not have the respective weights of the aircraft but in the hands ("thumbs")of this young man the S40 performed every trick in the book as neatly as some 40% models there.
Old 08-05-2006, 01:44 PM
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T.W.
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Default RE: Hangar 9 Funtana 40

Daveopam: Thanks for telling me where your Funtana balanced. My cg is just a little further forward than yours was, but I'm content with it at the moment now it doesn't flick-roll when I tight-loop it - and now that I can float it right down to the ground when landing. I don't need to push the stick more than 1mm for inverted, and I'm comfortable flying inverted 8's, inverted stall turns, tight bunts and spins either way up - and it exits spins immediately too. The current cg seems fine for me. It's keeping me amused and isn't going to catch me out whenever I drop my guard

Dlwood: From your description I can guarantee that you have a completely different wing to the one I have. Mind you, I think my whole model was a "Friday afternoon" job anyway. Some of the visible joints are very poor, they are so bad that they look to have been glued into the wrong place in the model ! Also the port and starboard wings turned-out to be different thicknesses - and both are 1/8-inch thicker at the tip than they are at the root! The supplier offered to replace my Funtana as soon as he saw my pix. But I had only noticed how bad it was whilst I was finishing installing my radio gear (sheesh!). I haven't heard from him since I asked if he wanted me to cut-off the control surfaces and stabs so that I can get everything back into the box . . . . strange, not ! In the meantime, and on the assumption that a replacement will not be forthcoming, I decided to just fly it! I suppose I'm lucky that it actually flies at all!

Tony
Old 08-05-2006, 09:29 PM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 Funtana 40

Tony, can you mix spoilerons with your radio? This will take your Funtana to the next level.

David

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