zdz 80 vibration
01-19-2003, 04:32 PM
#26
zdz 80 vibration
Oh - the 80?
Yep - they run smooth-
I have flown one in a 17 lb model - built originally for a 2.4 ci engine - very light construction- and --vibration is not a issue.
But then - the current purpose built engines - not converted chainsaws - all run pretty darn smoothly.
All of my new designs are much more lightly built than I originally thought necessary - simply because the engines don't try to tear em up.
The 80 single should work well on a airframe ready to fly including engine as light as 16 lbs -
Most of the damage I get -is from the f---in door jambs in my house.
Yep - they run smooth-
I have flown one in a 17 lb model - built originally for a 2.4 ci engine - very light construction- and --vibration is not a issue.
But then - the current purpose built engines - not converted chainsaws - all run pretty darn smoothly.
All of my new designs are much more lightly built than I originally thought necessary - simply because the engines don't try to tear em up.
The 80 single should work well on a airframe ready to fly including engine as light as 16 lbs -
Most of the damage I get -is from the f---in door jambs in my house.
01-19-2003, 05:13 PM
#27
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zdz 80 vibration
Hey Dick, you had a post in the 3-D section on a very light airframe you were building a while back with an ultra low wing loading, how did it work out, and did you get to play with balast to see how much difference it made.
01-19-2003, 09:01 PM
#28
zdz 80 vibration
I am flying it each weekend since Oct - we flog it dog it and try all kinds of stuff with it - it is 19 oz ft loading and I can say with no reservations - that this is the way to go -
almost all ARFS for th 40 cc engines -on up -are close to 30 ox ft - we have flown plenty of that stuff- The difference from 19-29 oz ft -same power aprox same area --is extremely noticable
almost all ARFS for th 40 cc engines -on up -are close to 30 ox ft - we have flown plenty of that stuff- The difference from 19-29 oz ft -same power aprox same area --is extremely noticable
01-19-2003, 09:29 PM
#30
zdz 80 vibration
Not much to tell - weigh everything - look at rubber band model construction -don't worry about adding carbon fibre parts or drilling holes in engines - this stuff is all fine -but excellent results can be had using spruce and balsa - thats it.
Look at the current crop of good electric powered stuff- -weight counts !
My next big gasser will be the 20-300 Ultimutt-- at 2000 squares - and should be under 20 lbs - all up - no fancy stuff required .
foam flight panels with lite balsa skins - and an all balsa fuselage with some spruce stringers -and wire for gear and struts - - sounds awfully old fashioned -I know -but so far I have seen nothing which beats these materials in a usable weight to strength comparison
Look at the current crop of good electric powered stuff- -weight counts !
My next big gasser will be the 20-300 Ultimutt-- at 2000 squares - and should be under 20 lbs - all up - no fancy stuff required .
foam flight panels with lite balsa skins - and an all balsa fuselage with some spruce stringers -and wire for gear and struts - - sounds awfully old fashioned -I know -but so far I have seen nothing which beats these materials in a usable weight to strength comparison
01-19-2003, 10:12 PM
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zdz 80 vibration
Very cool, congradulations on your efforts! Keep us posted on the 20-300 it sounds like a winner. Do you by any chance have plans for the one your flying?
01-19-2003, 11:04 PM
#32
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zdz 80 vibration
On the other side of the wing loading equation, I weighed two different Carden 33% Caps. Both with a DA-100. The light one weighed 30.5 lbs and the heavy one weighed 34 lbs (needed to carry 3.5 lbs of nose weight).
01-19-2003, 11:05 PM
#33
zdz 80 vibration
No working plans - They are a real time killer for me -
I do an awful lot of sketching and usually redesign the whole thing a dozen times but working drawings have to be left for a completed model which will be sold to others.
I do an awful lot of sketching and usually redesign the whole thing a dozen times but working drawings have to be left for a completed model which will be sold to others.
01-20-2003, 12:58 AM
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zdz 80 vibration
Originally posted by Diablo
On the other side of the wing loading equation, I weighed two different Carden 33% Caps. Both with a DA-100. The light one weighed 30.5 lbs and the heavy one weighed 34 lbs .
On the other side of the wing loading equation, I weighed two different Carden 33% Caps. Both with a DA-100. The light one weighed 30.5 lbs and the heavy one weighed 34 lbs .
01-20-2003, 02:12 AM
#35
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zdz 80 vibration
You are correct. It must have been a 35% Carden Cap - a little over 100" span. I get mighty confused about all these %s. Too much to keep straight. The heavy one was an older model with recessed wings - it had double wall construction for a lot of the fuselage. Looked like it was built to withstand an atomic bomb.
The point was the Carden Caps can be heavy when built stock - same with the Aeroworks 33% Edge 540-T. The AW Edge-29 lbs with either a 3W-100 or DA100 or 3W-80.
The lightest plane I've seen with a 100+ inch span is Dave Genovese's DR-109, just under 23 lbs with a BME 102 - no pilot, no frills.
The H9 33% Cap comes out just under 24 lbs with a ZDZ-80 - this gives it a lighter wing loading than the typical Carden Cap or AW Edge.
The point was the Carden Caps can be heavy when built stock - same with the Aeroworks 33% Edge 540-T. The AW Edge-29 lbs with either a 3W-100 or DA100 or 3W-80.
The lightest plane I've seen with a 100+ inch span is Dave Genovese's DR-109, just under 23 lbs with a BME 102 - no pilot, no frills.
The H9 33% Cap comes out just under 24 lbs with a ZDZ-80 - this gives it a lighter wing loading than the typical Carden Cap or AW Edge.
01-20-2003, 03:07 AM
#36
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zdz 80 vibration
Originally posted by Diablo
The H9 33% Cap comes out just under 24 lbs with a ZDZ-80 - this gives it a lighter wing loading than the typical Carden Cap or AW Edge.
The H9 33% Cap comes out just under 24 lbs with a ZDZ-80 - this gives it a lighter wing loading than the typical Carden Cap or AW Edge.
01-20-2003, 12:55 PM
#38
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horizon
Reason why I ask is that on horizons website, in the sukhoi info, they say that this engine is a "shaker" and nuts and screws need to be periodically checked and tightened.
01-20-2003, 02:27 PM
#39
zdz 80 vibration
I read that post - and was really surprised -
having done a number of H9's for me and friends - we found this to be NOT the case -
Guys flying twins here, have as much problem with this as anyone -
Here is the "but"
we all use a 4/40 bolt - with a washer and a tiny piece of neoprene fuel tubing as an extra washer -- this rubbber washer squeezes down and stops loosening. and the cowls are the worst offenders as this is a pretty cantilevered load
The shaking we have seen on these engines is from the idle adjustment on the carb- If rich - too rich - the engine hammers - this is NOT engine vibration from being an unbalanced single - it is simply a harsh power stroke.
A twin setup incorrectly will do the same thing.
Horizon's ZDZ 80 engine has the earlier Bing carb - which is typically not as easy to get smooth at idle --as the Walbro- But again - this is a case by case affair.
You will never eliminate power pulses in a single pulse per rev engine design - single or twin- makes NO fu--- difference.
Run a few of em if possible and you will see what I am driving at.
having done a number of H9's for me and friends - we found this to be NOT the case -
Guys flying twins here, have as much problem with this as anyone -
Here is the "but"
we all use a 4/40 bolt - with a washer and a tiny piece of neoprene fuel tubing as an extra washer -- this rubbber washer squeezes down and stops loosening. and the cowls are the worst offenders as this is a pretty cantilevered load
The shaking we have seen on these engines is from the idle adjustment on the carb- If rich - too rich - the engine hammers - this is NOT engine vibration from being an unbalanced single - it is simply a harsh power stroke.
A twin setup incorrectly will do the same thing.
Horizon's ZDZ 80 engine has the earlier Bing carb - which is typically not as easy to get smooth at idle --as the Walbro- But again - this is a case by case affair.
You will never eliminate power pulses in a single pulse per rev engine design - single or twin- makes NO fu--- difference.
Run a few of em if possible and you will see what I am driving at.
01-31-2003, 12:33 AM
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zdz 80 vibration
Originally posted by dick Hanson
No working plans - They are a real time killer for me -
I do an awful lot of sketching and usually redesign the whole thing a dozen times but working drawings have to be left for a completed model which will be sold to others.
No working plans - They are a real time killer for me -
I do an awful lot of sketching and usually redesign the whole thing a dozen times but working drawings have to be left for a completed model which will be sold to others.
Come on Dick, don't be selfish, how about this light airplane, I have a ZDZ 40 which will be doing nothing very soon and I like your concept........
02-04-2003, 11:12 AM
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zdz 80 vibration
No I didn't, I keep the planes at my fathers house and with the cold weather I just haven't had a reason to go there. Today is the first day it was over 25 degrees since november.
02-06-2003, 05:37 PM
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zdz 80 vibration
Aerografixs,
Dick isn't kidding. He sketches the outline on a piece of masonite or MDF then just builds from that. I always bug him about plans, and I think his new lightweight Petrol Petrel (the plane he is talking about) would make a fantastic electric conversion. It is FAI Pattern legal (sub 11#, 2m wing, 2m fuse). Coupled with the 32# static thrust of from his piped ZDZ 50 it is truly an amazing plane. It will take off in a few feet, transition to vertical, and disappear. The best thing is, it lands like a sailplane. It just floats and floats...Dead-stick is not a worry at all.
In fact, I was going to buy it before I decided to go larger (sorry Dick!). See my Wild Hare Giles in my avatar.
Dick is the king of light planes. He built a Hangar 9 Extra (see my avatar, yellow plane) for my dad, and it weighs just over 22# with a piped ZDZ 80 on it. Most people think it has a DA or 3W twin in it, it is so smooth. In fact, most of the people I fly with tell us the ZDZ 80 isn't enough engine for the H9 planes -- that is, until they see the Extra fly.
Brett
Dick isn't kidding. He sketches the outline on a piece of masonite or MDF then just builds from that. I always bug him about plans, and I think his new lightweight Petrol Petrel (the plane he is talking about) would make a fantastic electric conversion. It is FAI Pattern legal (sub 11#, 2m wing, 2m fuse). Coupled with the 32# static thrust of from his piped ZDZ 50 it is truly an amazing plane. It will take off in a few feet, transition to vertical, and disappear. The best thing is, it lands like a sailplane. It just floats and floats...Dead-stick is not a worry at all.
In fact, I was going to buy it before I decided to go larger (sorry Dick!). See my Wild Hare Giles in my avatar.
Dick is the king of light planes. He built a Hangar 9 Extra (see my avatar, yellow plane) for my dad, and it weighs just over 22# with a piped ZDZ 80 on it. Most people think it has a DA or 3W twin in it, it is so smooth. In fact, most of the people I fly with tell us the ZDZ 80 isn't enough engine for the H9 planes -- that is, until they see the Extra fly.
Brett
