DR.B.S.

I am so disgusted with the performance of the latest Hanger 9 RTF F-22 that I will never, never purchase another one of their fowled products again. Not only is the workmanship shot but the quality control must have been under the opium den at the latest factory from Hanger 9.

So I purchase this airplane at my local hobby shop that will remains nameless. I open the box, and the plane looks real nice. I put it together in a real short period of time. OK everything seems great, nice plane ease of construction. I try to lock the canopy in place and my troubles begin. Someone cross threaded the pin that locks the slide pin shaft into place, and it just slides back and fourth. So I take that apart and it falls apart in my hand, spring and all. That is when I noticed that the shaft was cross threaded. I just couldn't get it to function properly. So thank God, Allah, Buddha, Jesus that I have years of building experience so I solved the problem using golden rod, thank you Sullivan.
I then took it to the field to attempt to take off. Mind you I followed the instruction's to the letter. Well I couldn't even get this hunk of junk off the ground and the 3 blade paddle prop broke. So I take it back home and take off all the garbage that is supposed to generate lift and replace the paddle prop. I then take it back to the field and try again. This time the plane actually took off for a minute. As soon as it generated enough speed about 500 feet of runway it lifted off the ground. It sharply turned to the left. I move both elevator and rudder right and it has no effect. I am on full throws mind you. It went in. Not much damage it is very repairable but what the heck is that. I didn't have a stall ark to the take off so this didn't make sense. I then take it back home to figure out why and wouldn't you know it. There is no right hand thrust in the firewall or the motor mount. I guess that is what the progressive training system means.
I will not give up until I work out all the bugs in this plane and get it up and flying because I imagine it will eventually fly pretty well and I am not one to give up but please understand for $400 this plane should have done what Hanger 9 said it would do without all these problems and there should not have been all these problems from the first.This is not the first Hanger 9 opium constructed plane I had problems with either.
I imagine someone has gotten a good one(, Raptor) but for this kind of money well, I prefer to roll the dice at the casino not the hobby shop or mail order.
This is why I hate ARF'S AND RTF'S. You never know what your going to get. I am going to continue to kit build and never going back to ARF'S OR RTF'S until the day I die!!! So all I will wright at this point is hang it up Hanger 9 you may sucker the newbie but you will never sucker me again.

Happy Landing's,
The Doc.

PS,
I will say one thing about Black Horse Models. I spoke with the owner, George Elias and he flies everything he sell's. That is why he put's out a far superior product and I will continue to buy from him. Even if I have to stoop to buying and ARF. I just wish he had a bigger product line and put out kit's. Come on George expand your line and give us some kit's. I prefer Nitro.

ncrego

My Feedback: (40)

That's unfortunate that ou had those problems, I can't comment on the build, however, the one at my field flies great with the stock prop, and all the lift/drag generating devices on it. It is off the ground in under a hundred feet and climbs very strongly.

2HI2C

I helped a friend put his together. Took about 1hr, there is no measurable right thrust in it but has a little. And yes there were things that had to be fine tuned but that is part of flying ARF's. We left the trainer crap off of it & I took it up for him the 1st flight. It took about 100+ feet of runway & up it went. Flew like a champ. Lands a little Hot but that is expected.[sm=thumbs_up.gif] But it would be better with retracts.

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

I just did a review of the Raptor. Mine flew great. I found a weak spot in the nose, but H-9 has put out an addendum sowing a similar fix to mine.

Here's the review, check out the videos - There's one in trainer mode, and another video of it in advanced mode

[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/article_display.cfm?article_id=839]Raptor Review[/link]

Trollmaster

You know, your story leaves a lot to be desired but your thread title is the best/funniest I've ever seen. Ah shoot, I can't stop laughing. If I had to guess judging by the looks of it, may fly like a shrike. I've had a shrike for years and they are a handful and need to stay on top of it or it's going in.

I think Progressive Trainer System PTS is very misleading on this thing. If this is anybody's "second plane" it shouldn't be.

ag4ever

I flew the RTF version a couple months ago and it flew just fine. In fact my instructor at the time commented that it flew much better than the P-51 PTS.

I then ordered a ARF verson, and have it assembled awaiting the engine for it. The stock engine in the RTF is on the low end of the power specktrum and the plan could use a bit more power.

Hanger 9 does not only issue an addendum for the strengthening of the nose, but they also supply the plywood precut to glue into place to strengthen it.

I was not happy how my rudder/nose wheel worked due to bad control rod placement so I just added a servo right in front of the wing for the nose wheel. I am sure that since the engine I am putting in the plane is only 16.8 ounces, it will still balance well. Heck it balances well with the engine weight up front and the battery mounted right next to the reciever. I don't know why they think you need the battery all the way in the tail.

lear31A

My Feedback: (123)

I have figured out your problem! You moved your elevator to the right!

JS615

Ive got the arf version of the raptor and did the maiden flight last week, it has a evo .52,, it sure did need alot of runway but the plane flew like it was on rails,,,,, landings are somewhat hot but i expected that with this little plane,,, the build quility was tops,,,,, i would not recommend this plane for a first timer, as far as the PTS version, with all the trainer stuff on it,,,,,i dont think i would want to try and learn on it for the first time, if i was just getting into this hobby,,.... And i would not say horizon builds thier models in opium dens,. I feel that horizon has some of the top model rc planes in the industry... and as far as black horse,,,, man they dont even come close to the quility of horizon hanger 9 planes!!!!!!!

DR.B.S.

Yes I apologies for the temper. I was just a bit hot after 2 attempts at just getting it off the ground. I am glad however, that someone got a good laugh at the remark.
Yes both sticks were right and it still yawed left son. Since this is my 28 th plane I didn't figure, with all the PTS attached that it would be to hard to handle(,Of course my F-4 Phantom is a bit of a handful on take off and landings like my DR-1 Tri-plane) after all that is how Hanger 9 bills it, RIGHT?
Of course I would like to know how many Black Horse models you own and fly js615? I own and fly 3. I am very interested in your opinion on what is better and what is worse about the construction of both companies? Give a review, a full review !!!
I would like some suggestions from those of you that really flew it. For you see I flew mine today and with 3 ounce's of weight in the nose it still wanted to tip stall.
1) how did you solve the problem with tip stalling? granted you had that problem
2) how did you solve the problem with the week dual push rods for the elevator? when I push down one goes a bit lower than the other. 3) What type of runway was utilized in take off ?
4) do you believe the advertised billing of this plane? I have a bridge for sale for all those that do.

As far as putting an ARF together, that's child's play. I am a kit builder. Like my friend the WWII navigator who flew in a Dauntless Dive Bomber in Guadalcanal says, " I only trust what I build" words I live buy.
Landing is pretty hot but then so is landing my P-38. I kind off thought it would be. Maybe we should believe the advertisement, "flies like a trainer" huh? I put an 11 x 5 prop on and it still needed about 100 ft. So I find it hard to believe that those standard 3 blade props will lift it fast from grass, experiencing this first hand.
I just wanted to follow the instructions to the letter, like I did with my Black Horse planes and see what happened. With B. H. it did what it said with all the stock hardware and flies very nice. Again, this is not my first Hanger 9 product. Yes there pretty. Yes when you iron out all the bugs they fly well but I just don't like advertisement that is not true just to make a sale, especially to some poor sole just wanting to get into this hobby. It would be the ultimate end for those people.
Again, I apologies for the opium thing it is just that is were most all of these products are being produced in from countries that have those. And the product standard are very questionable Even after cross threaded stripped hardware and missing part's. But hey that's just me.

Happy Landings,
The Doc

cruzomatic

My Feedback: (17)

Ahhh geezzz. I was really looking forward to this plane. Was planning on installing an O.S 55ax in it.

2HI2C

1 - Keep up your air speed. (No Problem)
2 - No Problem.
3 - Pavement.
4 - No, This is not a Trainer plane in my opinion.

DR.B.S.

1 - Keep up your air speed. (No Problem)
2 - No Problem.
3 - Pavement.
4 - No, This is not a Trainer plane in my opinion.
[/quote]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Taking off from grass with the original prop, problem. Building up airspeed from grass to air, problem. Flexing of push rods for elevator, problem. Tip stalling in turns, needs more weight in the nose. The 3 ounces I have in the front is not enough.
Maybe the O. S. AX is the answer. Try it. This just may make the difference. It is a sharp looking plane.
Give it a try. I was just unhappy with the advertisement (, PTS- flies like a trainer.) B. S. as well as the problems stated. Which haven't really been addressed. Because I know that the flexing issue of the push rod's is reflective to all these planes and has a little something to do with the performance of flight.
I don't agree with putting the battery pack in the back of the plane were it is extremely hard to access, opium decision I think.

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Well, as i said before, I had no problems with mine at all. With all of the trainer gizmos, it was a very docile airplane. It's not a floater like a LT-40, but I already have two students lined up to train with it and I have no problem teaching them with it.

I think you maybe just got a bad one. It's really a great airplane.

Trollmaster

28 Planes! Thats the problem right their, your too good! I have an F-20 with a bad habit. But flying it for several years, I'm ready for it. On take off, as soom as I lift off, it wants to bank a hard left. No big deal when your ready for it but if not, I can let the expletives flyyyyyy!

ag4ever

I don't know. 28 planes, a kit builder and you can't figure out how to re-engineer the non flexing metal pushrods so you can get equal movement in the elevators.

You are also a great pilot and can't figure out how to fly this bird where as I am a total noob at flying them and I was able to run it around the sky nice and level and controlled. It was A LOT more reactive than my LT-40 is, but I would expect that.

From all the posts, comments and real life experience, the three bladed prop should just be thrown in the trash. Don't even think about using it.

At the field I fly at, there is a Dr. who is learning to fly, and this is the only plane he has flown. I understand he is doing really well.

You might just have a badly built one.

I did notice the pushrod exits for the rudders are not really lined up with where they need to be.

I plan to fly mine till I am decent at flying it, then recover it in a better color scheme (I got the red and white to make it easier to see).

My field does have a nice large concrete runway that is used for the turbine pilots, so it is a great runway.

JS615

Dr B S

I had the black horse spitfire .46,, notice i said HAD!!!!!!!!!!! It was probley the worst rc plane i ever owned besides the CMP marie P51 mustang... The spitfire had alot of problems from the box,,,,the ailerons were already hinged and pinned, (great idea, savestime) but they need to put them in correctly,, not crooked, the fiberglass cowl was junk and cracked very easly,, landing gear blocks started to tear out after just a few landings (all perfect landings) this plane was just bad made,,,maybe black horse has a opium den of their own.. or maybe their factory over in vietnam has discovered METH or CRACK COCAIN,,, just kidding about the drugs Dr B S,,
Im not trying to argue but i did have a very bad experince with black horse and have seen other bad ones at our air field,, of course you get what you pay for,, i think i paid $129 for that spitfire, or somewhere in that range,,,, its been awhile since i bought it....As far as my raptor,,, 1. I had no problems with tip stalling in turns,,, Now i can tell you this if you have got to much up elevator in the turns that plane could possibly snap out on you, and go into a flat spin??? thats not happened to me yet but could, i have done that on other propjets, like the a4 skyhawk... but as far as tip stalling coming in for a landing,, i would say if you drop you speed down WAY down its going to tip stall, just like alot of other planes!!! I will test that this weekend and see if the raptor wants to tip stall at slow speeds,, when i flew mine last week i never got the speed down enough to see if it would...
2. I never noticed weak push rods, after i bent them to shape, (just a little) they worked just fine,, Now if you push them by hand (not attached to the servo) and you push to hard, one elevator may go to far in travel,, i noticed that when i was setting them up during the assembly, but after alittle bend here and there and attached to the servo it worked fine....
3. I flew off of grass, and yes i had to eat up alot of runway, i had no wing droops nor the trainer prop on, dont need that stuff..
You do have to get this plane up to speed to get it off the ground..
4. And No i dont think this plane should be used for a trainer system, even with all the trainer stuff attached,, You need some time on a slow flight high wing plane to start off,, but thats just my opinion,,, i may be wrong...

And as far as hardware,, black horse hardware is trash can fodder,, i didnt use it on the spitfire, it was just alful!!!!!
The hanger 9 hardware,, well i use about 90% of it and sometimes all of it, I have alot of their models....Dr B S maybe you just got a bad plane from hanger 9 and maybe i just got a bad plane from black horse,, You know something?? Crap Happens....

2HI2C

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Taking off from grass with the original prop, problem. Building up airspeed from grass to air, problem. Flexing of push rods for elevator, problem. Tip stalling in turns, needs more weight in the nose. The 3 ounces I have in the front is not enough.
Maybe the O. S. AX is the answer. Try it. This just may make the difference. It is a sharp looking plane.
Give it a try. I was just unhappy with the advertisement (, PTS- flies like a trainer.) B. S. as well as the problems stated. Which haven't really been addressed. Because I know that the flexing issue of the push rod's is reflective to all these planes and has a little something to do with the performance of flight.
I don't agree with putting the battery pack in the back of the plane were it is extremely hard to access, opium decision I think.
[/quote]



Oooo BURN[X(]

ag4ever

I did not like the metal rods used as I tried to make the z-bend for the flaps/ailerons and the rod broke. So I just took some solder connectors and used them instead. I am sure they are better than the z-bends anyways.

tman52748

My Feedback: (1)

I just bought one and I read on rcgroups to shim the motor mount 3.5 mm on the bottom. Has anyone tried this?

Doc Austin

On the Evolution 46, the F22 flew fine, but I had an OS55 just sitting there waiting to turn some nice little airplane into a firebreathing monster. With an OS55, mine went like a scalded dog. It flies a little wierd, but it makes up for it by being so cool looking. I flew the crap out of mine and had a good time with it. It wasn't a perfect airplane but for the money is was a steal. I got $450 worth of giggles out it for sure.

As far as quality control problems or wrecking airplanes, my experience with big hobby distributors is that they are easier to work with if you call them and give them a chance to make it right before you go on the internet and call their products crap. Isolated examples of faulty mass production do get out, which is where lemons come from. This is why products have warranties. Warranties are no good if you don't give the distributor a chance to honor them.

I've never had a product problem with a Horizon brand that they didn't fix to my satisfaction or beyond, the same week. Even at that, I fly every day and torture my equipment, and I've only had to call Horizon once or twice, and one of those was probably my own fault and they made it right anyway.

DR.B.S.

Well I'm glad to see people having success. I did fly mine as I stated before but unlike other's, I am flying from grass.
JS615, what size props are you spinning? By the way thanks for the input. I have and still have my BH spitfire. Your input leads me to believe I just bought the lemon Raptor.
A lot of frustration comes from were most products are being build. Like Vietnam and those other places. And we just can't get our manufacturing back in this country but that is another topic for another discussion forum.
The common denominator I see from this is, this is not a trainer as it is billed. I found that out first hand. Love the radio and Evolution engine. They function nice.
As I said before Landing my P-38 is fast also so I am used to that. And there should not have been such a heavy yaw to the left but I did shim the mount for right and down.
As far as using it to teach the new student that has never flown well... The buddy box can do many misleading things.
I am not that good nor will I ever say I am but thanks for the compliment and I didn't mean to burn anyone, like they burn there op...... while mass producing products. That's there standards, all of them.
By the way 29 I just bought a Mustang kit, lol. I forgot to mention my helicopters. I guess that makes 2 more for the ranch. Love to fly, guess we all do. I shouldn't have come across so harsh. that's my fault and I accept full blame for that and apologize, again. I just get really pissed over improper advertisement and foreign production. I guess that just makes me American.
As far as BH is concerned the owner fly's everything he sells, can Horizon honestly say that? Everything.

Thanks for the help and input from all. It is interesting to extrapolate all the data. It's funny, if one reads between the line's one can figure the real comments as opposed to the well wisher's.

Happy landings,
The Doc

Trollmaster

Am I the only one who throws away all the hardware from the cheapest POS to my big ones?

Doc Austin

Our standard of living is so high that no one will work that hard for pennies.

No, I don't think it's a great basic trainer, but my friend flew his after 20 years away from the sport and he didn't have any trouble with it. It's a nice, smooth airoplane, but he would have been much better off with a Hangar 9 Arrow.

I'm still using my JR600, and on a very expensive airplane too. For the last 30 years, I wouldn't have given you a nickel for anything but a Futaba, but I taught a friend to fly with JR equipment and it works so nice that now I have two of them.

I think if you called Horizon they would probably try to help you out.....but I don't speak for them.

I don't speak for them, but they have treated my friends and I extremely well. I teach a lot of people to fly, and I like the Hangar 9 trainers because I don't have to work on them.......so I make my students buy them. We have had incredible success with these planes, and last week I soloed a student in 10 flights because the planes are so good. You set them up and you fly them. It is extremely rare that i ever have to tocuh one of these planes once they are set up. As an instructor, this helps me out a lot.

Occasionally we get a problem here or there because we fly the stuff hard and we fly it a lot. If we have a ligitimate complaint, which isn't often, they take care of it.

I'm not sure where that's aimed, but I wish everyone in the sport well. If I didn't I would have just laughed at this thread and moved on, but you've got a problem and my experience is that all you have to do is ask and they might just take care of it.

You know, you gotta be fair about it. Give them a chance.

tman52748

My Feedback: (1)

I will be putting the OS .55AX in mine shortly. Still no answer about shimming the motor mount 3.5mm so the motor points up. Looks like the guys on RCgroups had real good luck doing this.

JS615

Dr B S

Im turning a 11x6 on the evo.52,,, and i have tried a 10x8, not sure which one would be better, they both seem to perform about the same,, any input on this would be appreciated,, I have a os 55ax ready to go on it, wonder what size prop would work best for that engine??????