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CMPro Extra 330L 50 size

Old 12-05-2007, 03:58 AM
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GuyP
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Default CMPro Extra 330L 50 size

Hi

Ive been bought a CMPro Extra 330L 50 size for Xmas, still boxed and untouched. Looks great I thought! Nice looking kit, well made at first glance.

However two club members have already flown theirs, one electric and one with a .70 4 stroke and both have turned out to be complete dogs in the air. One of the club members is an ex competition flyer and his opinion means a lot. Unfortunately I do not know what motor he was running or prop but his just sank in the turn. Both were very tip stally, if you cut the power they just drop out of the sky! I think CMPro has made this plane too heavy to too smaller wing area and need to be flown fast. Both members have decided to sell this extra.

I wouldnt call myself an expert flyer or anything but I can perform most 3d manouvres. I dont want to waste time on a plane thats going to cost too much tinkering. I want it to be fun and slightly challenging, not bloody impossible!

Do I stick or twist?

Theres little user reviews online, anybody here got one? whats the story on this plane?

Many thanks


Guy
Old 12-05-2007, 12:40 PM
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Default RE: CMPro Extra 330L 50 size

If you mean one of these: http://www.nitroplanes.com/blex332c404c.html

Make sure that you do everything you can to avoid adding unnecessary weight.

I put a 2C .46 Tower Hobbies engine into one and it flies pretty well. No problems with verticals.

You have to experiment with the C.G. if you do not want the nose to drop in turns, although I'm quite used to this with all of my biplanes, so I normally correct w/o thinking.

The C.G. placement is a bit touchy, moving it .5 " back or forward makes a big difference so be careful.

If I recall correctly the thrust angle needs a bit of adjustment as it comes. I recall that it had too much down thrust and maybe not enough right thrust.

Once "dialed in" it's a good flyer.

I really haven't had problems with uncommanded snaps, as I never let it slow down that much on turns into final.

Like most highly acrobatic planes, it is designed to snap quickly.

If you are not used to this, it may catch you unawares.

I'd suggest keeping it high in the air until you are comfortable with the way it flies. Likewise make longer approaches straight in until you know how it will react, especially in cross winds.

It's not a "difficult" flyer, but you'll want at least 20% expo on low rates and about 45% on high rates ( over 50% makes no sense on many planes.... ) to keep it from seeming twitchy, due to the excellent response. It rolls very quickly.

It's not a "dog" by any stretch of the imagination, but a .70 4C engine may produce too little power for this plane depending upon the output of the engine. e.g. the cheaper OS .70 sized 4C will definitely produce an anemic performing plane IMHO.

The finish and build is excellent ( re-enforce with thinned epoxy and CA everywhere you see wood ) but I wish CMP had used CF landing gear on this plane like they did on the Giles 202 .50 ver. 2.0. Not a huge problem though.

The hinges use pin hinges instead of CA hinges, and are both pre-drilled and slotted very well. Installing the control surfaces is trivial because of this.

The only hardware I changed was the tail wheel gear, for which I substituted a much better $2.00 cost, assembly which you can order from Tower as a part for the GP Ultimate and other planes.

Other than the engine mount and tail, I actually used the provided hardware and haven't had any problems with it.

Standard sized ( cheap SG5010 ) HiTorque servos all around on mine.

That's all I recall off hand.

Old 12-05-2007, 03:21 PM
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Default RE: CMPro Extra 330L 50 size

Opjose

Many thanks for your informative reply, it helps a lot!

My friends extra was running an SC .70 that wasn't running on song and the valves kept needing adjustment.

I bought a saito .62 for this plane is that going to be enough? failing that Ive got a Saito .80 that can go on.

We fly off a grass runway at the moment and I'm thinking of upgrading the wheels to a larger size as recommended on another thread I found after starting this one.

Thanks again!
Old 12-05-2007, 03:50 PM
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Default RE: CMPro Extra 330L 50 size

I'd go with the .80 and just be sure that you get the C.G. right.

The Saito is a relatively light engine so this will help with the loading.

Old 12-06-2007, 04:14 AM
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GuyP
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Default RE: CMPro Extra 330L 50 size

Thanks again for your help!

From your advice I think I'll stick with it. It can't be that hard to set up surely. I was very surprised when one of the lads, the ex comp flyer only took it out once, was glad to get it back on the ground and then gave up with it. This is also a man who builds and designs his own eleccy 3ders.

Anybody else got one of these, how have you found it?
Old 12-06-2007, 05:10 AM
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Default RE: CMPro Extra 330L 50 size

me and my dad got given one of these planes each for x-mas last year, dad built his with 55ax and i left mine in box, and thank bloody god i did!!!, its honestly the worst flying plane i have attempted at flying to date. landing is a nightmare. and ohh yeah makesure you check for the gluejoints where the wing tube enters the wing, this plane only got 3 flights, and that was only doing circuits trimming it out and about 2 knife edges along the strip, and WHAM!!!, the right wing ripped off as the glue had let go around the wing tube brace, so in goes a $250 lawn dart on its 3rd flight, if you want my advice, stick with the twist

Now im not bagging cmpro, as i have there 140 giles, 140 extra, katana 50, extra 90 size, and they have all been great quality and flying planes, but in all honestly i think they made a very big mistake with this 50 size one, it is just WAYY to heavy for its size and the wings are tiny. and it needs around 100 grams of nose weight if you use a 46 engine
Old 12-06-2007, 07:43 AM
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Default RE: CMPro Extra 330L 50 size

Oh dear! Not good!

Thats what I don't get. Ive heard goood things about CMPro planes but it appears there are a lot of people who have flown it who would agree its a stinker.

One of the guys I know said the main wing pole is tight when you first put in on but becomes very loose when the over hanging paint layers wear off i.e. after a couple of times putting it together.

Ive decided to bugger off to the local model shop to see if its possible to exchange it for something else and see what else they have in stock that tickles my fancy. Will report back.

Still in two minds.
Old 12-06-2007, 06:33 PM
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Default RE: CMPro Extra 330L 50 size

I disagree...


I had a friend who had one.

It was destroyed during the maiden flight!


He had not set up the C.G. properly and flew it based upon "guesses" from other club members who were admiringly looking over his plane.

It was EXTREMELY nose heavy at 25% of chord and tended to go into a dive. At one point we tried to trim the plane.

Momentarily letting go of the elevator to adjust the trim caused the plane to build up too much speed and indeed the wing snapped right off and he lost the plane.

Shortly thereafter I purchased mine.

I liberally applied epoxy over the exposed surfaces ( including the wing root ) and I glued the wings in place since I have space to carry it in a van.

( I'd imagine that you would want to add at least an additional wing bolt to this plane if you want to make the wings removable, and strengthen the root areas with epoxy. ).

I haven't had any problems with this plane. It rolls more axially than the Giles, and it snaps like a daemon. It can handle many aerobatics with aplomb.


The large control surfaces can make it touchy on elevator for landings if you don't have expo dialed in to your liking.

On landings it is almost identical to my similiarly sized and looking CMP Giles 202 .60.

Come in fast and you'll be bouncing all over. It actually lands slower than it appears to, and newbies make the mistake of coming in too hot thinking it will stall and snap faster than it actually will.

Dav0012's dad may have not been used to this.

There is NO "paint" on the wing pole area unless he was talking about the fuse itself at the root. This area must be sanded down and made FLAT so that either glued or with the bolts in place contact is VERY tight along the entire surface.

Failure to do so puts more stress on the tube leading to what we've experienced on the maiden and others have reported... in effect the forces need to be distributed along the entire root surface.

This is no different than any other similiar CMP ARF that is built the same way.

Unfortunately the instructions are well, quite sad/bad ( as with all of the CMP Arfs) , so if you do not have a lot of prior ARF experience you may not know what to look for and/or do.

This is not a "beginner's" ARF by any stretch of the imagination though.

Old 12-07-2007, 12:16 AM
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Default RE: CMPro Extra 330L 50 size

not even just my dad, and i have more experience flying than he does, as i managed to get him into the hobby after i started, i tried flying it and ive flown as i stated the other cmpro models including there 2 bigger size extras. the landing was the problem yes, but no matter what i tried, nothing would slow this plane down aside from cutting the throttle as soon as i turn into the landing leg and glide it in, had the throttle as low as possible before it would cut anyhow and still no better. and as soon as it comes near the ground it just keeps on flying, try to grease it in on landing and as soon as it touches the ground its staight back in the air again. funny thing ive found with extras they dont come in for landing at all like my giles. dunno how you managed to make yours similar, coz this plane was an absolute pig.

and thats the funny thing about these forums, people just make assumptions of other peoples flying skill from all over the globe who have no idea of your flying competencies.
"Dav0012's dad may not have been used to this"
Old 12-07-2007, 05:55 AM
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Default RE: CMPro Extra 330L 50 size

Well looks like ive sparked some debate about this plane which is good! thats what these forums are for eh?

Dav0012 I dont think opjose made an assumption, he did say "may not have been".

Thanks for the imput on this bird guys I really appreciate it.

I did visit my local shop and they were very surprised to hear of the negatives on the Extra that I'd heard. Now this is a model shop Ive been a customer of for years and I trust them. I will also add that they have agreed to swop it for something else if I wish but....

This is one of their best sellers, there are 12 at another local club apparently and they rant and rave about it! They have one hanging up in the shop and I did feel the weight, didnt seem heavy I have to admit but obviously this was not loaded with gear and engine. Its funny, you look at this plane and you think to yourself, how do you fly so bad? It looks so good.

Ref the paint around the hole for the tube, this was the hole on the fuse yes. Thanks for the advice on the wing! Certainly worth considering fixing the wing permanently, I have storage room for this and also in the car so shouldnt be a problem. I can't inspect mine until xmas day.

I have figured one thing. If I do go with this extra, and I probably will, I will gain a lot of experience setting it up correctly or as correctly as I can before I fly it. Ive built lots kits and Ive done one scratch build from plans recently see[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6582458/tm.htm]here[/link] .

opjose (or anyone?) do you have any pictures of your set up for this plane?

Thanks again
Old 12-07-2007, 11:52 AM
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Default RE: CMPro Extra 330L 50 size


ORIGINAL: Dav0012

not even just my dad, and i have more experience flying than he does, as i managed to get him into the hobby after i started, i tried flying it and ive flown as i stated the other cmpro models including there 2 bigger size extras. the landing was the problem yes, but no matter what i tried, nothing would slow this plane down aside from cutting the throttle as soon as i turn into the landing leg and glide it in, had the throttle as low as possible before it would cut anyhow and still no better. and as soon as it comes near the ground it just keeps on flying, try to grease it in on landing and as soon as it touches the ground its staight back in the air again. funny thing ive found with extras they dont come in for landing at all like my giles. dunno how you managed to make yours similar, coz this plane was an absolute pig.

"Dav0012's dad may not have been used to this"
From your discription doesn't sound like a "problem" at all.

That it floats on by is GREAT IMHO. It indicates that the wing loading is low and the plane is not settling down because of it's speed.

It also indicates that it is not properly "propped" as you are unable to get it slow enough to land...

Been there, done that with this plane.

You just need a lower pitch wider prop with the engine you are using.

That doesn't make it a "pig" flying. Quite the contrary this is a good thing.

My Giles did the same thing btw.

I had exactly the same problem with my Funtana 90S until I got it properly propped.

Not intending to be demeaning, but it really does sound like you are not used to the "floaters".

Old 12-07-2007, 11:59 AM
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Default RE: CMPro Extra 330L 50 size


ORIGINAL: GuyP

Well looks like ive sparked some debate about this plane which is good! thats what these forums are for eh?

Dav0012 I dont think opjose made an assumption, he did say "may not have been".

This is one of their best sellers, there are 12 at another local club apparently and they rant and rave about it! They have one hanging up in the shop and I did feel the weight, didnt seem heavy I have to admit but obviously this was not loaded with gear and engine. Its funny, you look at this plane and you think to yourself, how do you fly so bad? It looks so good.

Ref the paint around the hole for the tube, this was the hole on the fuse yes. Thanks for the advice on the wing! Certainly worth considering fixing the wing permanently, I have storage room for this and also in the car so shouldnt be a problem. I can't inspect mine until xmas day.

I have figured one thing. If I do go with this extra, and I probably will, I will gain a lot of experience setting it up correctly or as correctly as I can before I fly it. Ive built lots kits and Ive done one scratch build from plans recently see[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6582458/tm.htm]here[/link] .

opjose (or anyone?) do you have any pictures of your set up for this plane?

Thanks again
Dav0012's experience on landings sound like my first two flights...

I tried a bunch of approaches until I found that I should set it up for a straight in approach and cut the throttle to idle further out than I normally do.

I tried various props, which helped slow it down for landing.

I like the performance with the original prop though and put it back on.

I just learned to give it more room on setup.



You could also dial in a bit of spoileron's to prevent this.

About 1/4" will suffice, preferably with a bit of elevator mixing dialed in.

A very easy thing to do for "floaters" if you have a computer controlled radio.




Re: Pictures

I have many of my planes in storage now, so I would not be able to take pics until March when I haul everything back out.








Old 12-07-2007, 02:47 PM
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Default RE: CMPro Extra 330L 50 size

Very interesting thread. I did have the CMP Giles 46 and the way it was flying seems to be really similar to the Extra as you are describing it. After having flown the Giles, I liked it so much that I bought the Extra...and it still in it's box ready to be assemble. Thanks for all the good advise. i will sure try different prop and i will be really careful with CG. One question, the plane as relatively big fuel tank and I was wondering if you were balancing this plane with the tank full.
Old 12-07-2007, 03:51 PM
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Default RE: CMPro Extra 330L 50 size


ORIGINAL: shotgun06

Very interesting thread. I did have the CMP Giles 46 and the way it was flying seems to be really similar to the Extra as you are describing it. After having flown the Giles, I liked it so much that I bought the Extra...and it still in it's box ready to be assemble. Thanks for all the good advise. i will sure try different prop and i will be really careful with CG. One question, the plane as relatively big fuel tank and I was wondering if you were balancing this plane with the tank full.
You are almost always supposed to balance the plane with the tank empty.

There are exceptions, but for a tractor arrangement, an empty tank at the front represents it's worst case in terms of the plane being potentially tail heavy.



Old 12-08-2007, 04:27 AM
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Default RE: CMPro Extra 330L 50 size

Well this sounds so much like my World Models Rockwell Mustang. Not from a flying point of view but for landing. That plane always approaches fast which I have to control with a touch of elevator and a long approach. It has no flaps or airbrakes. Thats fine I can live with that.

I ordered a manifold and silencer for my Saito FA80 yesterday at my local shop and missed one of the guys who has the extra. General consensus is its not a 3Der its more of a pattern ship. So has anyone actually managed to hover it?

Thanks again for all your help, I feel like I can set this plane up with more confidence.

Cheers
Old 03-16-2008, 05:07 PM
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Default RE: CMPro Extra 330L 50 size

I am new here and i bought a330l extra with a fibergalass body i thought it would be more durable. i put a new saito 82 on it i couldnt believe all the nose weight it needed it could used alittle more i think i flew it today and it snapped to right and left and i finally got it in air. I could tellright then it was going to be hard to fly. ii flew for awhile getting nervous to land it .i was making a circle pattern when it went crazy snapping left and right .i gave more throttle and it didnt seem to help.it went down i thought it was going to be smash to pices but abig bush soften its blow .the left wing snapped loose and i think this is what caused its problem.I am skeptical of fixing it and trying to fly it again .the engine is worth more than the plane i might buy something else made with all balsa ive had good luck with twisters. anyone oyut there figure out why this beautifull plane flys so squirlly
Old 03-16-2008, 09:29 PM
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Default RE: CMPro Extra 330L 50 size

This particular plane has a very short tail, to make it as snappy for aerobatics as possible while still retaining control. It is not a 3D'er.

You need an engine that is capable of pulling the plane through the air at decent speeds while not being too heavy adding to the wing loading.

A higher pitch prop is advisable to keep the airspeed up.

It is also has a higher loading that what many people are used to.

As such it can be problematic for an intermediate pilot.

I saw one go down on it's maiden because the pilot had not set up the C.G. correctly. The plane was too nose heavy with too large of an engine, and when an attempt was made to trim it, it went into a fast powered drive. Pulling up hard in a knee jerk response, caused a un-hardened wing root screw blind nut to let go and the wing to snap off.

I've flown this plane and I would recommend if be flown by advanced pilots only with Warbird experience.

If you find that you are adding a lot of nose weight to any plane, you instead need to do something about the distribution of things in the plane... avoid adding any weight, find a way to avoid this even if you have to go to an unorthodox measure.

e.g. you can mount the battery pack in FRONT of the firewall, and/or put the throttle servo in the nose, move the engine forward slightly, etc.






Old 03-17-2008, 06:56 PM
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Default RE: CMPro Extra 330L 50 size

thanks for the input guess ill fix wing and sand my wing roots true and glue them together work on my weight and balance after moving radio /bat to front. bigger wheels might help do it again danno thanks
Old 04-15-2008, 06:33 PM
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Default RE: CMPro Extra 330L 50 size

Hi Guys

Looked this thread back up as Im just starting building this Extra. I reckon some pictures are in order as there is so little floating around the net about these planes

Lets hope I get it right eh

Shall I go Saito 62 or 80?
Old 04-16-2008, 12:14 PM
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Default RE: CMPro Extra 330L 50 size


ORIGINAL: GuyP

Looked this thread back up as Im just starting building this Extra. I reckon some pictures are in order as there is so little floating around the net about these planes

Lets hope I get it right eh

Shall I go Saito 62 or 80?
80.

The Saito is a light engine so you should be in the ball park with it.

Old 04-18-2008, 05:41 PM
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Default RE: CMPro Extra 330L 50 size

Thanks for that, thought the FA80 was a good idea just wanted to check. Any ideas on prop for this plane with the FA80?

I finally started the build tonight. Short on time at the moment with a new born. Got the ailerons glued. Tomorrow I will steal the radio gear from a mustang I will not be flying for a while. JR 591 servos and JR receiver.

I will reiterate what others have said about the instructions with this ARF. They are rubbish.





Cheers

Guy



Old 04-24-2008, 08:18 AM
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Default RE: CMPro Extra 330L 50 size

Hi all

Well still not got a great deal done yet. Tried the wings on for size. Seemed to fit nice and tight. One of the criticisms I heard was after removing the wing pole a few times it becomes a loose fit. Mines stayin put then. May even glue in after a few flights.





Servo hatches installed, so far so good and no complaints about the hardware like I have seen on other threads about this plane.



I did start sanding the fuse where the stabs are to be glued last night. Checked pole for size and its very tight, so tight in fact the pole is permanently fitted into one stab with no glue. Any ideas how I should remove it without breaking so I can glue it? Or should I leave well alone considering I will take great care in glueing the stabs to the fuse.

I have a 12x8 apc prop for the Saito FA80 so far, any other props I should take for the first test? I recall somebody saying somewhere they used 14x?

Also what is the easiest way to change the thrust angle from the standard?

Cheers all
Old 04-24-2008, 08:26 AM
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Default RE: CMPro Extra 330L 50 size

i've got the red one it's great with a os 91 fx in it a bit over power but it need it..it fly great
Old 04-24-2008, 08:43 AM
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Default RE: CMPro Extra 330L 50 size

Nice1 Bigadd!

Nice to hear some positive comments! All other threads have been doom and gloom apart from the odd person willing to persevere with it and change a few things like Opjose

Whats your COG set at if you dont mind me asking? After reading up last night I think Im aiming for 85mm from the LE
Old 04-24-2008, 10:45 AM
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Default RE: CMPro Extra 330L 50 size


ORIGINAL: GuyP


I did start sanding the fuse where the stabs are to be glued last night. Checked pole for size and its very tight, so tight in fact the pole is permanently fitted into one stab with no glue. Any ideas how I should remove it without breaking so I can glue it?
Cheers all
While the dowel is primarily used for alignment, you may want to try removing it just to check.

Use something that will grip the wood, such as a small pipe plyers set... and try turning it a bit first.

Don't damage the dowel, you are merely trying to see if it will turn if only a bit, at all.

If it does, then turn slightly in each direction as you attempt to pull it out, to work it free.

If it doesn't, wick thin CA into where it joins the wing. This will adhere it even more.


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