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Hangar 9 40 Size Piper Pawnee!!!

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Hangar 9 40 Size Piper Pawnee!!!

Old 02-18-2008, 04:47 PM
  #51  
DocYates
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Default RE: Hangar 9 40 Size Piper Pawnee!!!


ORIGINAL: bassfisher

Plus- a Pawnee without struts, is like Arkansas beating LSU - its just not right.
That is too funny!!
Old 02-18-2008, 05:54 PM
  #52  
Pearl_414
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Default RE: Hangar 9 40 Size Piper Pawnee!!!

Bassfisher, I've yet to see a low or high wing model with struts serving their purpose. I would like to thank the Ak Ravorbacks for beating us in triple overtime and not regulation. I would like to thank the Tennessee team for giving us a SEC championship that led to a National Championship in the most wacky year in college football. LSU is the only team in American history to play for a National Championship with 2 loses. We are also the only team in 2007 to never lose a game in regulation meaning within the 4 quaters.

LMAO


Corey
Old 02-18-2008, 07:40 PM
  #53  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 40 Size Piper Pawnee!!!

If you're not using wing tubes for support, wing struts are a must to support the wings. I.E. full scale aircraft. I doubt you'd want to climb into a full scale aircraft and take off without wing struts. You'd seriously lose your wings. Same principal applies to model aircraft.
Old 02-18-2008, 09:41 PM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 40 Size Piper Pawnee!!!

how would a 55ax go in this plane? would that be enough power?
Old 02-19-2008, 12:14 AM
  #55  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 40 Size Piper Pawnee!!!

They say a .46 2-stroke will fly it so I imagine the .55 would do a little better. The .55 should be able to swing a bigger prop at lower RPM than a .46 so it might might be a little more appropriate too.
Old 02-19-2008, 12:56 AM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 40 Size Piper Pawnee!!!

outacontrol41,

The physics that are present during full scale flight is not the same as rc physics. A pure example of that is rc 3-D helicopters compared to full scale helicopters. Ya full scale heli's can do basic rolls and loops, but where is the inverted hovering and dozens of other tricks that rc heli's do? Another example is rc 3-D airplanes, I've yet to see a full scale airplane of any type hover for 20 minutes, EVER!! I have also never seen a full scale airplane with V-Pitch. The main difference between rc and full scale is Power to Weight Ratio therefore affecting the overall physics, end of story.

I flown the Piper J3 Cub from Modeltech, the H9 Cessna 185 .60 and the H9 Cessna 182 giant scale 20lbs and many others without the struts and all came back in 1 piece after doing aerobatics all day, how do you explain that? Your right, full scale does require struts on some airplanes but rc is different. I been flying rc planes when I was 13 years old, 21 years ago and got my Private Pilot License at age 17 I know the difference between the 2. The wingspan and engine requirement of the Pawnee should tell you the struts serve no purpose.


Corey
Old 02-19-2008, 01:45 AM
  #57  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 40 Size Piper Pawnee!!!

Okay...you may be right on all counts, and since I'm not a physics professor....I really don't have much scientific data in my corner to back my theory. But let me play devil's advocate with you...and again...I'm not saying your wrong, but consider:

" but where is the inverted hovering and dozens of other tricks that rc heli's do?"
Answer: I don't believe there's a pilot that walks the earth that has the b@lls to even think about doing something like that. And...until someone gets into a copter and attempts it, the award is still available for the taking. In other words, no one has ever proven it can't be done either. But still, it's far too dangerous to even try.

"I've yet to see a full scale airplane of any type hover for 20 minutes, EVER!! "
I've seen videos of jet aircraft hover and more recently videos of a Pitts S-2B hovering (but not for 20 minutes...what would be the point?). But my point is - although one plane weighs 16 - 20 lbs. and a full size weighs several hundred...they can do the same things. It's much easier to stand on the ground and hold a radio controlling two sticks to make hover for 20 minutes (not a typical time window, by the way) as opposed to doing the same with a full scale.
Not familiar with V pitch airplanes...doesn't the Beechcraft Bonanza have one? or is that strictly a V tail?

"I flown the Piper J3 Cub from Modeltech, the H9 Cessna 185 .60 and the H9 Cessna 182 giant scale 20lbs and many others without the struts and all came back in 1 piece after doing aerobatics all day, how do you explain that?"
Well, the explaination is in one word: "Wing tubes". Actually thats two words. RC scale models rely heavely on wing tubes to carry the day. Without them, the non-aerobatic planes you mention (H9 Cessna 182, etc.) would definately lose a wing or two without the internal wing tube which adds great strength to the wing structure....and therby eliminates any real need for wing struts. Not so on a real aircraft. They are vital and crucial to keep the wings from folding and causing a disaster. They were designed and placed there for a reason...not just for looks.

"The wingspan and engine requirement of the Pawnee should tell you the struts serve no purpose."
That statement is over my head...I really don't know how to answer. Do you mean the full scale where they are definately required or the rc model that has wing tubes so struts are only cosmetic?

Well, take my answers with a grain of salt if you will...they make sense to me, however. Maybe someone else can weigh in on this and give one of us a physics lesson?
Old 02-19-2008, 02:01 AM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 40 Size Piper Pawnee!!!

-
"The physics that are present during full scale flight is not the same as rc physics.''

BTW...I agree with that. But your expaination / theories don't really prove that there is an extreme difference of any kind. I believe that like-wise, it can be said that full scale building technique is not the same as rc building technique...and that's where the physics come into play.
I admire you as a full scale pilot. I always wished I could fly at such a young age.
Old 02-19-2008, 02:32 AM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 40 Size Piper Pawnee!!!

Hi outacontrol41,

I accept your opinions to the fullest. I'm not a physics expert either but I do have tons of experience in mostly abnormal situtations on purpose. You can bet there are plenty and I say plenty with the capitol P of crazy pilots in the world to prove or dis-approve that full scale heli's can do 3-D. If commom sense serves me correct and a full scale heli tried to do 3-D inverted, it wouldn't even be able to do so cause the main rotor blades would snap off when reversed pitch is applied. The world as we know it does not have the hardened materials to allow 3-D.

The pitts can't hover for minutes because the power to weight ratio is highy weak. Put a Pitts on a upright stand and apply full throttle, it will not takeoff, thats why we use the word stalled. Your right, V-Pitch is not on the Bonanza, it's the tail. The only place you will find V-Pitch is in rc and rc only.

True, aluminum tube's are good, especially for aerobatics.

You proved me right. Weather it be because of Size to weight ratio or Power to Weight ratio. The size, weight and power of the rc Pawnee just don't require the wing struts. It's just for looks, nothing more.


BTW, nice planes in your gallery.



Thanks for your opinion's. No salt was needed!

Pearl
Old 02-19-2008, 03:12 AM
  #60  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 40 Size Piper Pawnee!!!

Hi guys I already have mine on back order in australia and am planing to put an old but blue printed 0S 108 up front and do some light towing duties with it.....I really need another tug like a hole in the head but it is pretty.
Old 02-19-2008, 09:31 AM
  #61  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 40 Size Piper Pawnee!!!

Pearl - Yes the Tiggers did have a great year - The Alaska (Ak) Ravorbacks must have snuck in a game. I know the AR Razorbacks did need the triple overtime to do the trick, but then again it was the scoreboard that told the tale.

On the point of struts on the Pawnee, in many ways you right. On this model, they are mostly cosmetic, but they are still have some function. But, on some larger planes (i.e some 1/4 Scale and larger Cubs and some other high wing planes) they are functional. I, like you, have flown plenty of planes of my 20+ years where the struts were just there and performed no function. But the whole point is, a Pawnee without wing struts is just not a Pawnee.
Old 02-19-2008, 10:34 AM
  #62  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 40 Size Piper Pawnee!!!

My editor just got back from a trip to Horizon. He reports that the Pawnee will not be released until after the Toledo show. Looks like we'll have to wait until April.... patience, patience.
Old 02-19-2008, 11:03 AM
  #63  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 40 Size Piper Pawnee!!!

My LHS was showing Late Feb delivery
Old 02-19-2008, 03:49 PM
  #64  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 40 Size Piper Pawnee!!!

That makes me sick! I have everything for it, engine, receiver, servos, etc. I really like it so I guess I will just have to wait!!!
Old 02-19-2008, 05:06 PM
  #65  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 40 Size Piper Pawnee!!!

This happens every time a new product comes out and it's advertised too early. I always wonder...what's the point? It's not here and not available. Just makes us wait....
Old 02-19-2008, 06:20 PM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 40 Size Piper Pawnee!!!


ORIGINAL: outacontrol41

This happens every time a new product comes out and it's advertised too early. I always wonder...what's the point? It's not here and not available. Just makes us wait....
You just answered your own question:-)

Gerry
Old 02-19-2008, 06:26 PM
  #67  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 40 Size Piper Pawnee!!!


ORIGINAL: outacontrol41

"I flown the Piper J3 Cub from Modeltech, the H9 Cessna 185 .60 and the H9 Cessna 182 giant scale 20lbs and many others without the struts and all came back in 1 piece after doing aerobatics all day, how do you explain that?"
Well, the explaination is in one word: "Wing tubes". Actually thats two words. RC scale models rely heavely on wing tubes to carry the day. Without them, the non-aerobatic planes you mention (H9 Cessna 182, etc.) would definately lose a wing or two without the internal wing tube which adds great strength to the wing structure....and therby eliminates any real need for wing struts. Not so on a real aircraft. They are vital and crucial to keep the wings from folding and causing a disaster. They were designed and placed there for a reason...not just for looks.

"The wingspan and engine requirement of the Pawnee should tell you the struts serve no purpose."
That statement is over my head...I really don't know how to answer. Do you mean the full scale where they are definately required or the rc model that has wing tubes so struts are only cosmetic?

Well, take my answers with a grain of salt if you will...they make sense to me, however. Maybe someone else can weigh in on this and give one of us a physics lesson?
Well, I would fly my 1/4 scale clipped wing Sig cub w/o struts anytime. I would not attempt the same w/my Basa USA 1/4 scale Cub. In the BUSA plane, the struts are functional. Now, if you fly a scale model airplane why would one leave the truts off (well I flew my Goldberg Cub many time w/o struts because I forgot them at home, but that is another story). The planes look much better w/the struts on:-)

Gerry
Old 02-19-2008, 07:06 PM
  #68  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 40 Size Piper Pawnee!!!

Any full scale pilots out there reading this that have taken apart their airplane for maintenance or an overhaul? Has anyone had the wingss off their full scale J-3 Cub, Piper Pawnee, or Cessna Skylane? If you did...did you have to slide your wings off a giant full scale aluminum WING TUBE? If so ...please clarify. OR any device so sturdy and strong similar to a wing tube that you had to ask yourself -" Why do I need wing struts? I thinkk my wings are strong enough without them"?
Most of the ARF's I've bought over the years have had good sturdy aluminum wing tubes installed in them and if I didn't bolt on the wing struts...it wasn't such a big deal. At worst it looked like something was missing.
I just built my first KIT from plans recently, (believe it or not it was a giant scale Piper Pawnee PA 25 150) and there is not a hint of wing tube mentioned on the plan. Just the 6'' main wing spar extension from the wing went into the fuse into a holding box along with a shorter piece of wood closer to the LE to keep the wing from rotating. On the wing side, the designer went to great detail showing how the struts were to be built and how they attach at their points on the wing. No matter how tight I made the wing spar fit into the holding box in the fuse, there was always some up and down wobble even after the wing was bolted from inside. Add the wing struts...solid as a rock. Would I fly this plane without wing struts? [:@][:@]Don't count on it.
Corey....wingspan and engine size have the least to do with weather your wings stay on or not during flight ....in this case as demonstrated....the way the aircraft is built has everything to do with it. Hold the salt, please.
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Old 02-19-2008, 08:56 PM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 40 Size Piper Pawnee!!!

Hello All,

Thank you for the interest in the Hangar 9 Piper Pawnee .40.

First off the wing struts are what I would call semi-functional. Because of the dihedral of the wing the wing tube cannot extend very far into the wing, only like two rib bays if I remember correctly. You may be able to fly the airplane without the struts, HOWEVEVER ANY amount of g-loading would most likely pull the wing tube out of the bottom of the wing and the wing would fold. With the struts the entire fuselage/wing acts as one unit. Like outacontrol41 said without the struts the Piper Pawnee wing will wobble up and down some. With the struts it is very solid and held up to full throttle dives with high rate elevator inputs with the Evolution .46 2-stroke.

That brings me to how the airplane flies with the recommended engines.

Basically the airplane behaves like a low wing Cub. It does fly heavier than a Cub but anyone that has flown a Cub knows it has almost glider like performance. I would say the Piper Pawnee feels floaty on landing. The flaps allow for a slightly steeper decent but not a major increase since they are fairly small. The full size Pawnee's flaps were not super effective either. The flaps do allow for a shorter takeoff and the plane sort of levitates off the ground with that distinctive tail high Pawnee attitude. We have not had a chance to get video of the plane since the weather has been terrible lately. Snowing, windy, or 8 degrees...... or all three.

With the Evolution .46 2-stroke the plane flies with better than scale performance with about a 15-20 degree climb out. Not a powerhouse but to fly it scale like it is more than adequate. The Evolution .52 would give it more for some non-scale flying.

With the Saito .82 4-stroke the plane is overpowered. It will not climb straight up by any means but this type of sport scale plane never was intended to. Takeoff from grass requires only 1/3 throttle for a beautiful scale takeoff. Climb rate is roughly 45 degrees with the .82 at full throttle.

With the E-flight Power 46 electric on 4 cells and an APC 13 x 6.5E has similar performance to the .46 2-stroke, maybe a bit better. This is not pushing the motor so propping up to a 14 x 7E would give better performance. The motor is also rated for 5s so that would also allow for extra power.


As for the arrival time of the plane I am very confident it will be well before Toledo. I can't say when it will arrive but it should be soon.


Matt
Old 02-19-2008, 09:11 PM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 40 Size Piper Pawnee!!!


ORIGINAL: MAndren

As for the arrival time of the plane I am very confident it will be well before Toledo. I can't say when it will arrive but it should be soon.
I sure hope so. I have the engine and radio gear sitting under the bench just waiting for the airplane.
Old 02-19-2008, 09:16 PM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 40 Size Piper Pawnee!!!

Thanks for the input Matt, it is a nice looking plane and I have been wanting one for a while! Any suggestions on prop type for a EVO 46 on this aircraft?
Old 02-19-2008, 09:31 PM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 40 Size Piper Pawnee!!!

Matt sez....

"As for the arrival time of the plane I am very confident it will be well before Toledo. I can't say when it will arrive but it should be soon."

And I say....

Take your time....I don't have the money for it yet!..
Old 02-19-2008, 09:44 PM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 40 Size Piper Pawnee!!!

Thanks for the input Matt. I've been waiting for mine to come in since the first time I saw the pictures. Is there a Cessna AgWagon on the way? I'm looking forward to adding a few scale items to mine, but I know that it will have to be recovered sooner or later in the an original factory paint scheme. Any chance that H9 will introduce another Pawnee in factory paint schemes?
Old 02-20-2008, 08:24 AM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 40 Size Piper Pawnee!!!

Thanks for the information Matt. I'm looking forward to getting mine.
Old 02-20-2008, 09:14 AM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 40 Size Piper Pawnee!!!


ORIGINAL: Pearl_414

outacontrol41,

The physics that are present during full scale flight is not the same as rc physics. A pure example of that is rc 3-D helicopters compared to full scale helicopters. Ya full scale heli's can do basic rolls and loops, but where is the inverted hovering and dozens of other tricks that rc heli's do? Another example is rc 3-D airplanes, I've yet to see a full scale airplane of any type hover for 20 minutes, EVER!! I have also never seen a full scale airplane with V-Pitch. The main difference between rc and full scale is Power to Weight Ratio therefore affecting the overall physics, end of story.

I flown the Piper J3 Cub from Modeltech, the H9 Cessna 185 .60 and the H9 Cessna 182 giant scale 20lbs and many others without the struts and all came back in 1 piece after doing aerobatics all day, how do you explain that? Your right, full scale does require struts on some airplanes but rc is different. I been flying rc planes when I was 13 years old, 21 years ago and got my Private Pilot License at age 17 I know the difference between the 2. The wingspan and engine requirement of the Pawnee should tell you the struts serve no purpose.


Corey
Actually, your examples are correct, but your premise is wrong. The physics are the same, which is why the examples you point out exist. Stress/strain, momentum, strength of materials...etc are exactly why the small lightweight models we fly can do things a full scale can't.

The pawnee is an interesting model. I may have to get one.

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