Hangar 9 40 Size Piper Pawnee!!!
11-15-2009, 08:25 AM
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RE: Hangar 9 40 Size Piper Pawnee!!!
Can someone that has mounted the Ohio Superstar tail wheel post some pictures so I can see if mine is correct as I am not that experianced. I sure would appreciate it guys.
11-25-2009, 12:42 AM
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RE: Hangar 9 40 Size Piper Pawnee!!!
Hey rv9-a, had the exact thing as you happen to me today. Third flight since I have built the plane and the motor mount came apart on landing. I cant believe H9 would put such a crappy flimsy mount in a nice plane like this. They need to seriously look at how flimsy some parts of their planes are. Tail wheel broke off again too so its back to the workshop. Nothing like flying first class.
I like what you did with your motor mount so I will try the same.
11-25-2009, 08:45 AM
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RE: Hangar 9 40 Size Piper Pawnee!!!
Hey, Lots
I agree w/ you about the lightness of some of H9's airplanes, and the Pawnee, which is about my favorite, is one of them. Chalk it up to trying to design one airplane for both glo and electric. The two are fundamentally incompatible,
IMHO. Plus as you say, the tailwheel is a piece of crap. Mine simply pulled out, taking some of the tailpost, which was very light and soft balsa, with it after about 10 flights. I knew when I looked at it wasn't going to work, but was dumb enough to use it anyway.
Mine's now laid up waiting for gear, backordered until LATE JANUARY, if you can believe it! I guess I've got spmewhere around 75 flights on mine, and am planning a refurb this winter. New cowl, new spinner, new gear, which I need, and new wheels, which also are on backorder.
So in the Spring I'll be back in the air. Despite a few shortcomings, this is one great airplane.
Al
I agree w/ you about the lightness of some of H9's airplanes, and the Pawnee, which is about my favorite, is one of them. Chalk it up to trying to design one airplane for both glo and electric. The two are fundamentally incompatible,
IMHO. Plus as you say, the tailwheel is a piece of crap. Mine simply pulled out, taking some of the tailpost, which was very light and soft balsa, with it after about 10 flights. I knew when I looked at it wasn't going to work, but was dumb enough to use it anyway.
Mine's now laid up waiting for gear, backordered until LATE JANUARY, if you can believe it! I guess I've got spmewhere around 75 flights on mine, and am planning a refurb this winter. New cowl, new spinner, new gear, which I need, and new wheels, which also are on backorder.
So in the Spring I'll be back in the air. Despite a few shortcomings, this is one great airplane.
Al
11-25-2009, 08:57 AM
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RE: Hangar 9 40 Size Piper Pawnee!!!
I have yet to bend the gear on my Pawnee so that it cannot be repaired. See post #1260. It has been my trainer and has had some pretty hard landings. I also reinforced the forward gear block with a layer of birch ply. The rear one had to be replaced after a recent "landing," but the gear was repairable.
One change in the wheel I made after the inner half of the hub broke was to make new inner halves out of Delrin(acetal). They have been very durable. I also slip a short length of 3/16 brass tubing over the axle outboard of the wheel collar. That keeps the flat on the axle from grinding the outer hub half into nothing. So far, the Delrin-modified hub has held up.
Does anyone happen to know the aluminum alloy used for the forward wing tube?
John
One change in the wheel I made after the inner half of the hub broke was to make new inner halves out of Delrin(acetal). They have been very durable. I also slip a short length of 3/16 brass tubing over the axle outboard of the wheel collar. That keeps the flat on the axle from grinding the outer hub half into nothing. So far, the Delrin-modified hub has held up.
Does anyone happen to know the aluminum alloy used for the forward wing tube?
John
11-25-2009, 01:53 PM
#1282
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RE: Hangar 9 40 Size Piper Pawnee!!!
Lotsofcrashes,
Attached are some more pics of my repair job of the engine mount on the Pawnee. Some of these may have been posted already.
jpanhaul,
I also had trouble with the landing gear block. The piece of wood it was made from should not have been used. It was not even close to being "straight grained". I had to remove the front mount and make a new one. The aft mount looked ok, but so did the front mount until it failed. Epoxying a piece of ply all the way across top of the mount is a very good idea. Had I done that on mine, even with the bad wood, it may not have failed.
mobyal,
You are probably right about building lite to satisfy both worlds, but a couple of more ounces of CA or epoxy wouldn't hurt a bit. I would recommend to anyone just putting this Pawnee together to apply some glue to all the joints they can reach, and most importantly wick some thin CA in all the hinges, several of mine pulled out with very little pressure.
I have built several H9 ARFs', along with some others, and in my opinion H9 has a way to go in their construction and quality control. I do have to give them credit for their covering, it is right up there with the best. The framed up ailerons on my H9 Twist would not stay straight so I made some out of 1/4" balsa planks. I removed the bottom covering to make pockets for the new hinges and re-glue as much as I could. The last two photos are from the H9 Twist wing. One picture is obvious they spliced in about 4" of the bottom trailing edge ! The other picture might be a little harder to see but they patched in a piece wood in a ding in the same trailing edge piece. I wonder how much more cost effective it would have been to just use another piece of wood!
I don't think there is another H9 ARF in my future.
rv9-a
Attached are some more pics of my repair job of the engine mount on the Pawnee. Some of these may have been posted already.
jpanhaul,
I also had trouble with the landing gear block. The piece of wood it was made from should not have been used. It was not even close to being "straight grained". I had to remove the front mount and make a new one. The aft mount looked ok, but so did the front mount until it failed. Epoxying a piece of ply all the way across top of the mount is a very good idea. Had I done that on mine, even with the bad wood, it may not have failed.
mobyal,
You are probably right about building lite to satisfy both worlds, but a couple of more ounces of CA or epoxy wouldn't hurt a bit. I would recommend to anyone just putting this Pawnee together to apply some glue to all the joints they can reach, and most importantly wick some thin CA in all the hinges, several of mine pulled out with very little pressure.
I have built several H9 ARFs', along with some others, and in my opinion H9 has a way to go in their construction and quality control. I do have to give them credit for their covering, it is right up there with the best. The framed up ailerons on my H9 Twist would not stay straight so I made some out of 1/4" balsa planks. I removed the bottom covering to make pockets for the new hinges and re-glue as much as I could. The last two photos are from the H9 Twist wing. One picture is obvious they spliced in about 4" of the bottom trailing edge ! The other picture might be a little harder to see but they patched in a piece wood in a ding in the same trailing edge piece. I wonder how much more cost effective it would have been to just use another piece of wood!
I don't think there is another H9 ARF in my future.
rv9-a
11-25-2009, 02:05 PM
#1283
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RE: Hangar 9 40 Size Piper Pawnee!!!
Oop's
I screwed up on the pictures, double posted some and didn't get others. Posts number 1257 and 1263 have some of the ones I intended to get.
rv9-a
I screwed up on the pictures, double posted some and didn't get others. Posts number 1257 and 1263 have some of the ones I intended to get.
rv9-a
11-25-2009, 03:42 PM
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RE: Hangar 9 40 Size Piper Pawnee!!!
Hey guys, thanks for the feedback and pics. Thats an interesting thought Mobyal about trying to keep it light for electric and satisfy a heavier setup for Nitro. BUT, and I wish someone from H9 could read this, the thing I have learnt from these threads is how creative you guys are, thats in set up (motor etc. ), flying field variations ( Desert, long grass, to beautiful sealed runway ) and how long you keep your planes ( they arent disposable ) that when they build them they should be thinking of these things. H9 make a Taylorcraft which is not too much bigger than the Pawnee but twice as solid. The Pawnee's frame is very light, as is the landing gear and engine mount area. Maybe thats why they call it a .40 size plane, keep the motor small and just putter around.
I reckon, in this day and age they have so many materials to choose from, structural knowledge and design and marketing experience that they must know the weaknesses in these planes before they roll off the assembly line. If these guys were making cars they would be out of business.
But, their planes look great, are getting easier to build and they offer some really interesting planes. Sorry guys, I know Im having a *****. I just prefer planes that are in the sky more than the workshop and there must be a plane building company that thinks the same out there somewhere.
Thanks for the pics rv9-a, I appreciate the support and ideas.
11-25-2009, 04:03 PM
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RE: Hangar 9 40 Size Piper Pawnee!!!
ORIGINAL: Lotsofcrashes
<snip>If these guys were making cars they would be out of business.
<snip>If these guys were making cars they would be out of business.
But, their planes look great, are getting easier to build and they offer some really interesting planes. Sorry guys, I know Im having a *****. I just prefer planes that are in the sky more than the workshop and there must be a plane building company that thinks the same out there somewhere.
Thanks for the pics rv9-a, I appreciate the support and ideas.
As for running an auto company, I wish the folks at Horizon/Hangar 9 did run GM. At least the taxpayers did not have to spend billions of $ to bail them out.
I am thrilled with my Pawnee. Every break it has suffered has been my fault. Can the design be improved? Sure it can, and Hangar 9 may do that. But for the price, I don't think it can be beat. As for Hangar 9's customer service, that is where it really shines. Can anyone say that about GM?
John
11-25-2009, 04:59 PM
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RE: Hangar 9 40 Size Piper Pawnee!!!
The Taylorcraft is the same span as the Pawnee, but a larger scale, 30% versus less than 20%. The Taylorcraft is definitely more solid, but then you have guys complaining that it's overbuilt and too heavy. There's no pleasing everybody.
ORIGINAL: Lotsofcrashes
Hey guys, thanks for the feedback and pics. Thats an interesting thought Mobyal about trying to keep it light for electric and satisfy a heavier setup for Nitro. BUT, and I wish someone from H9 could read this, the thing I have learnt from these threads is how creative you guys are, thats in set up (motor etc. ), flying field variations ( Desert, long grass, to beautiful sealed runway ) and how long you keep your planes ( they arent disposable ) that when they build them they should be thinking of these things. H9 make a Taylorcraft which is not too much bigger than the Pawnee but twice as solid. The Pawnee's frame is very light, as is the landing gear and engine mount area. Maybe thats why they call it a .40 size plane, keep the motor small and just putter around.
Hey guys, thanks for the feedback and pics. Thats an interesting thought Mobyal about trying to keep it light for electric and satisfy a heavier setup for Nitro. BUT, and I wish someone from H9 could read this, the thing I have learnt from these threads is how creative you guys are, thats in set up (motor etc. ), flying field variations ( Desert, long grass, to beautiful sealed runway ) and how long you keep your planes ( they arent disposable ) that when they build them they should be thinking of these things. H9 make a Taylorcraft which is not too much bigger than the Pawnee but twice as solid. The Pawnee's frame is very light, as is the landing gear and engine mount area. Maybe thats why they call it a .40 size plane, keep the motor small and just putter around.
I reckon, in this day and age they have so many materials to choose from, structural knowledge and design and marketing experience that they must know the weaknesses in these planes before they roll off the assembly line. If these guys were making cars they would be out of business.
But, their planes look great, are getting easier to build and they offer some really interesting planes. Sorry guys, I know Im having a *****. I just prefer planes that are in the sky more than the workshop and there must be a plane building company that thinks the same out there somewhere.
Thanks for the pics rv9-a, I appreciate the support and ideas.
11-25-2009, 06:11 PM
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RE: Hangar 9 40 Size Piper Pawnee!!!
ORIGINAL: CRG
The Taylorcraft is the same span as the Pawnee, but a larger scale, 30% versus less than 20%. The Taylorcraft is definitely more solid, but then you have guys complaining that it's overbuilt and too heavy. There's no pleasing everybody.
The Taylorcraft is the same span as the Pawnee, but a larger scale, 30% versus less than 20%. The Taylorcraft is definitely more solid, but then you have guys complaining that it's overbuilt and too heavy. There's no pleasing everybody.
Extremely happy with my Pawnee. Using a Saito 91 engine.
Give credit where its due, crashing or bad landings will break any airframe.
The plane is very well built for a light airframe and all the problems here are caused by pilot error not by design.
Cheers
Paul
11-25-2009, 06:16 PM
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RE: Hangar 9 40 Size Piper Pawnee!!!
Oh hear we go, the Pawnee worshippers. Its the perfect plane and anyone who has problems its their fault. Sure.
11-25-2009, 06:21 PM
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RE: Hangar 9 40 Size Piper Pawnee!!!
ORIGINAL: Lotsofcrashes
Oh hear we go, the Pawnee worshippers. Its the perfect plane and anyone who has problems its their fault. Sure.
Oh hear we go, the Pawnee worshippers. Its the perfect plane and anyone who has problems its their fault. Sure.
Don't blame the airframe.
I crash, I break, my fault.
The truth hurts, get over it.[8D]
11-25-2009, 06:26 PM
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RE: Hangar 9 40 Size Piper Pawnee!!!
Oh wake up. There was no crash and others on the thread have had the same problem. Thats the point. When it falls apart without a crash it poor design, workmanship or quality control problems. Stick your head in the sand all you want but if there's a problem, then it should be fixed.
The truth hurts, get over it.
11-25-2009, 06:29 PM
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RE: Hangar 9 40 Size Piper Pawnee!!!
ORIGINAL: Lotsofcrashes
Oh wake up. There was no crash and others on the thread have had the same problem. Thats the point. When it falls apart without a crash it poor design, workmanship or quality control problems. Stick your head in the sand all you want but if there's a problem, then it should be fixed.
Oh wake up. There was no crash and others on the thread have had the same problem. Thats the point. When it falls apart without a crash it poor design, workmanship or quality control problems. Stick your head in the sand all you want but if there's a problem, then it should be fixed.
The truth hurts, get over it.
What do you expect, if I stall my P47 from 3' it would be a mess.
11-25-2009, 06:39 PM
#1293
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RE: Hangar 9 40 Size Piper Pawnee!!!
"Give credit where its due, crashing or bad landings will break any airframe.
The plane is very well built for a light airframe and all the problems here are caused by pilot error not by design."
Paul,
Sorry but I have to disagree with you the hard landings or almost crashes with this plane should not have caused the damage that happened. Yes it was pilot error that let it tip stall about 3' off the ground. To be honest all three of my "crashes" were pilot error. The one that took out the firewall didn't even break the prop! None of them have. I have had hard landings with other manufactures kits and ARFs' that hasn't came close to doing the damage that happened to the Pawnee The plane would be well built if a little more glue was used and H9 was more selective with their wood. Oh that may raise the price, again.
rv9-a
The plane is very well built for a light airframe and all the problems here are caused by pilot error not by design."
Paul,
Sorry but I have to disagree with you the hard landings or almost crashes with this plane should not have caused the damage that happened. Yes it was pilot error that let it tip stall about 3' off the ground. To be honest all three of my "crashes" were pilot error. The one that took out the firewall didn't even break the prop! None of them have. I have had hard landings with other manufactures kits and ARFs' that hasn't came close to doing the damage that happened to the Pawnee The plane would be well built if a little more glue was used and H9 was more selective with their wood. Oh that may raise the price, again.
rv9-a
11-25-2009, 06:46 PM
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RE: Hangar 9 40 Size Piper Pawnee!!!
I don't know who that's direct towards, but I love my Pawnee. Primarily because it's a great flying airplane, and I just enjoy flying it. I don't worship it for the sake of worship.
I did do some damage to mine, tried a loop and was about two feet short at the bottom, hit the dry lakebed really hard. It spread the gear, hit the prop, and broke the lower longerons behind the wing. Motor kept running and flew around some more before landing carefully. Bent the gear back into shape and was good to go.
A few cases of poor wood or dry joints here are there are just how it goes, no matter what brand of ARF. If you imposed the kind of quality control required to make every ARF flawless they'd be more expensive, and there are already enough people crying about the cost.
I did do some damage to mine, tried a loop and was about two feet short at the bottom, hit the dry lakebed really hard. It spread the gear, hit the prop, and broke the lower longerons behind the wing. Motor kept running and flew around some more before landing carefully. Bent the gear back into shape and was good to go.
A few cases of poor wood or dry joints here are there are just how it goes, no matter what brand of ARF. If you imposed the kind of quality control required to make every ARF flawless they'd be more expensive, and there are already enough people crying about the cost.
ORIGINAL: Lotsofcrashes
Oh hear we go, the Pawnee worshippers. Its the perfect plane and anyone who has problems its their fault. Sure.
Oh hear we go, the Pawnee worshippers. Its the perfect plane and anyone who has problems its their fault. Sure.
11-25-2009, 06:47 PM
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RE: Hangar 9 40 Size Piper Pawnee!!!
Im glad someone recognises a bit of reality. A light stall from 3 feet should not do significant damage to a well built plane. If it does, its not going to last unless your the "perfect" flyer with perfect flight conditions and flying field. I was trying to say most of us dont have that, so it would be nice if the designers made things a little more robust.
11-25-2009, 06:53 PM
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RE: Hangar 9 40 Size Piper Pawnee!!!
CRG, I love my Pawnee too, believe it or not. Like you I love flying it, but not spending half my time in the workshop. More flying less workshop if the plane was more robust.
I dont know how your plane survived the loop crash but good luck to you. I wish mine was the same, I would be out flying now instead of typing.
11-25-2009, 07:02 PM
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RE: Hangar 9 40 Size Piper Pawnee!!!
I believe you're in the minority there. Seems plenty of people take exception to the prices of a lot of ARF's and believe we're getting gouged by the distributors.
I've been building from plans since before ARF's were 'invented' and think we're pretty fortunate to have the selection we do at current prices. Clearly they're not all perfect, but that's how it goes. I paid a lot more than the cost of a Pawnee for my Chevy and I wish the numbskulls at GM would stand behind their product even half as well as Horizon does.
I've been building from plans since before ARF's were 'invented' and think we're pretty fortunate to have the selection we do at current prices. Clearly they're not all perfect, but that's how it goes. I paid a lot more than the cost of a Pawnee for my Chevy and I wish the numbskulls at GM would stand behind their product even half as well as Horizon does.
ORIGINAL: Lotsofcrashes
P.S. CRG, I would pay more if I knew it would last.
P.S. CRG, I would pay more if I knew it would last.
11-25-2009, 07:22 PM
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RE: Hangar 9 40 Size Piper Pawnee!!!
Yes, your probably right CRG. If you had spent years doing the lot from scratch you would appreciate something packaged as nicely as todays planes. Im relatively new to flying and just expected rc planes to be reasonably robust given the conditions and skill levels of people.
i.e. make a product thats going to last.
Like rv9-a, I have had similar minor incidents with other planes and only had minor damage so I expected the same.
I have heard good things on the threads about Horizon which is good to know. Now if they would just open up a store in Australia, that would be good.
