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Siai Marchetti SF260 ARF

Old 02-10-2009, 05:58 PM
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mimoore67
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Default Siai Marchetti SF260 ARF

Well, I have a list of aircraft that I have always wanted to have, so when I was looking at the Nitroplanes site, I saw this!

[link=http://www.nitroplanes.com/marchetti-rc-plane.html]Siai Marchetti SF 260[/link] made by [link=http://www.fly-model.com/cp_detail.php?id=21601&nowmenuid=1243&cpath=0261:&catid=261]Fly Models[/link]

Soon as the tax return comes, i'm ordering!

I do have some concern about ordering from Nitroplanes, having read that they have had some communication problems in the past! Have they gotten better???

Michael
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Old 02-10-2009, 06:06 PM
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Default RE: Siai Marchetti SF260 ARF

looks nice,
Old 02-10-2009, 06:31 PM
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Chad Veich
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Default RE: Siai Marchetti SF260 ARF

There was a very nice Falco ARF at the recent Arizona Electric Festival but there was no manufacturers information with the display. Looked to be around 75-80 inches span. Fuse was glass, wing and tail appeared to be built up. Anybody know any more? The Falco was an all wood homebuilt which led to the SF 260, pic below. (This just happens to be the same paint job that was on the ARF)

Old 02-10-2009, 07:08 PM
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Default RE: Siai Marchetti SF260 ARF

Chad, you need to find out who made that!

I've always like the planes designed by Stelio Frati! I'll be searching the Internet trying find the plane you described!

Just to clarify for those who may not know, the Falco listed by Chad, the Falco was a smaller plane, with similar looks to the SF 260! You can build your own Falco from wood, a truly beautiful design!
[link=http://www.seqair.com/Falco/Falco.html#anchor] Information on the Kit/Plans for the Falco[/link]

All for about $109,000![]



From the day it first flew in 1955, the Falco has been called "the Ferrari of the air". This Italian design is sleek, strong, agile and fast. There are two seats. Control sticks. A bubble canopy for all-around visibility. It's an outstanding cross-country plane, with thousand-mile range and full IFR capability. And fast. A few examples have even topped 230 mph on the standard 160 hp engine.

A superb aerobatic ship, the Falco is a graceful ballerina in the sky. Cuban eights, loops, rolls, snaps and spins are only a flick of the control stick away. The agility is astonishing, and the handling is legendary. The controls are light and precise, and after pulling through a smooth series of rolls and loops, the comparison with jet aircraft becomes inevitable.

The Falco is also strong. Aerobatic certification means the Falco can easily take loads which would break an ordinary airplane. And even for pilots who always keep the wings level, it's nice to have that strength.

The Falco's proven record and engineering puts it in a class by itself. It was designed by Stelio Frati, one of the great aircraft designers of all time. It was certified as a production aircraft. It was built as a production aircraft and has a history of over 40 years of use by pilots in Europe. Now, with many refinements, the Sequoia Falco is a modern, state-of-the-art aircraft built from kits and flown by pilots all over the world.

Compared to ordinary aircraft, the Falco is an Arabian stallion among plowhorses. It is a classic, timeless design that has everything you could ask of an aircraft: looks, speed, efficiency, aerobatics, strength, andabove allan absolute joy to fly.

The Falco. A plane for all seasonsand all time.
Old 02-10-2009, 07:57 PM
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Default RE: Siai Marchetti SF260 ARF

You will find that there are 3 or 4 guys on this thread for some reason have a vendata against Nitro. It seems it is their "life's aim" to bad mouth them. I personally have 3 of Nitro's Planes & have had very good luck with them. I think they sell one heck of a lot of planes. They have a forum strictly used for support. I don't see any other sellers do that. They have some problems. who doesn't? They have a guy named John who moniters it. He seems to do a pretty good job. They definitly have the best prices, & a good product. Their ARFs are like all ARFs nowdays, you need to go over them & double check all glue joints. Their instructions are not the best. If you are a newbie you might have trouble putting them together. I would have no problem ordering from them again.
Old 02-10-2009, 08:28 PM
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Default RE: Siai Marchetti SF260 ARF

Thanks Outdoor Hunting!

I find it's always good to ask! I have bought some CMP kits from www.ak-models.com and never had any problems and your right, there are some people who get a little bent when things don't go there way. When you run a business your going to have some bad transactions, so I'm glad to hear that Nitro is better now. I think a lot of their problems was when they came on the scene a while back.

I see that Nitroplanes, is going to be at the Toledo show in April, so if any of you Nitro Guys are reading this, are you going to be selling or merely exhibiting?

M
Old 02-10-2009, 08:34 PM
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Default RE: Siai Marchetti SF260 ARF

That Marchetti is a beautiful plane that I have always liked the looks of! I have a Yak 69" from Nitro. My son has the smaller 56" one (might be off an inch or two, can't remember). We both have had good luck with them so far. Like outdoorhunting said, you have to be a little experienced to know what needs beefing up or replacing, but in general, the planes are good, cheaper, light (in the case of these two planes), and good values for the money. Jon
Old 02-10-2009, 08:39 PM
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Default RE: Siai Marchetti SF260 ARF

ORIGINAL: maukaonyx
Like outdoorhunting said, you have to be a little experienced to know what needs beefing up or replacing, but in general, the planes are good, cheaper, light (in the case of these two planes), and good values for the money. Jon
Yes, I I've had my experience building kits and now with ARF's! I like to Bash ARf's and rework certain things, like adding flaps, if the real plane has them, doing slight cosmetic modifications, that take some of the ARF out of the ARF, if you know what I mean! Immediately, I can see that one could modify the canopy, by trimming some excess plastic away and using some balsa sheeting and some formers so the canopy would look more scale.

I've been flying a World Models Midget Mustang going on 9 years now and ARF's have come long way since this plane. Like many of you I have an addiction to this hobby, with a basement, that my wife thinks could pass for a hobby shop!

So, I gotta have this Marchetti!
Old 02-11-2009, 07:58 AM
  #9  
outdoorhunting
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Default RE: Siai Marchetti SF260 ARF

They seem to still have some problems, but John does a pretty good job. The guys I was reffering to as far as I can tell have never even bought anything from Nitro. There for why bash? Good Luck
Old 02-11-2009, 12:46 PM
  #10  
jrf
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Default RE: Siai Marchetti SF260 ARF

That Falco is 25% scale and it is gorgeous! Designed for a 40-50cc gas engine and Robart retracts. The maker is Golden Skies RC. Unfortunately, they are not yet in production. They were just testing reactions to see if it will be worth the money to fully develop it and bring it to production.

Their website is www.goldenskiesrc.com

Jim

Old 02-11-2009, 09:12 PM
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Chad Veich
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Default RE: Siai Marchetti SF260 ARF


ORIGINAL: jrf

That Falco is 25% scale and it is gorgeous! Designed for a 40-50cc gas engine and Robart retracts. The maker is Golden Skies RC. Unfortunately, they are not yet in production. They were just testing reactions to see if it will be worth the money to fully develop it and bring it to production.

Their website is www.goldenskiesrc.com

Jim
Thanks for the info Jim. From the look of the one on display it didn't appear like there was a great deal left to develop. I would be happy to purchase one just like the display model in fact! It appeared to be a well built and well finished airplane and I hope they do decide to offer it.
Old 02-11-2009, 10:39 PM
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Default RE: Siai Marchetti SF260 ARF

I talked to Golden Skies RC today on the phone and they are indeed going to offer the model. Look for it in the 4-6 month range. They said they have some changes they want to make before they introduce it on the market.

However, I was also pleasantly surprised to find the landing gear legs I had been looking for. I was looking for some trailing-link landing gear for the Nitroplanes Marchetti SF260 and by chance learned that Golden Skies has these gear too. [link=http://www.goldenskiesrc.com/SLG.html]Trailing Link Landing Gear[/link]

So thanks for the lead on Golden Skies. It's nice to see some different ARF's out there!
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Old 02-15-2009, 09:46 PM
  #13  
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Default RE: Siai Marchetti SF260 ARF

Well, I pulled the trigger. The breaking point was when I was looking at Nitroplanes website tonight, I saw that they had a 10% off promotion, so that brought down their shipping, which I thought was a little high. So I did it! I'm bad! That tax refund burning a hole in my pocket.
Old 02-20-2009, 04:56 PM
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Default RE: Siai Marchetti SF260 ARF

The big brown truck came with the Fly Models Siai Marchetti SF260 in Belgium Airforce colors. I noticed a couple of punctures in the box, so I asked the driver to stick around, while I open the box and did a quick inspection. I haven't had the best of luck with U.P.S.

Here's some pictures!

I was impressed, that there actually is some dihedral in the wing. The cowling look very good and heavy fiberglass. Also, in the cowling, is the provision for the landing light, a nice scale touch.
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Old 02-20-2009, 05:06 PM
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Default RE: Siai Marchetti SF260 ARF

More:

Funny! In the last picture, you probably can't see, however the cutout for the nose gear, is set up for a dual-tires! LOL! We'll fix that!

However, look at this link. [link=http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rc-network.de%2Fmagazin%2Fartikel_05%2Fart_05-041%2Fart_041-01.html&sl=de&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8]German artile on how to make the trailing link landing gear struts[/link] I bought some 3/8" aluminum round stock and 1/4" so I'm going to see if my brother-n-law and I can machine out a set. I'll make the prototype out of dowel rods, then aluminum.
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Old 02-20-2009, 05:20 PM
  #16  
basman
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Default RE: Siai Marchetti SF260 ARF

mimoore what are you powering it with? Looks good keep the build pics coming
Old 02-20-2009, 06:40 PM
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Default RE: Siai Marchetti SF260 ARF

They suggest a 1.20 4-stroke, but I may try a .91 4-stroke. I'm not looking for monster performance! They say about 9-10 pound range, but we'll have to see how everything will fit, in the cowling and along with nose gear retracts.


Okay, some of you may think, I'm nuts! I removed the covering on the plane, as I have a lot of scale modifications that I plan to do. Plus, I see a lot of potential for this being a fairly decent "scale" (what ever that means to you) subject that happens to be in ARF form. Looking closely at the cowling last night, there are details molded into the cowling like the landing light and two small air inlets for what may be the oil coolers. I also am going to move the rudder linkage from exiting the fuselage from on top of the fuselage, to a internal linkage below the rudder. This will necessitate the need for a access panel below the elevator(s), we'll have to see.

I was sitting the basement looking at the wing fairing on the fuselage, it was kinda rough, as far as the covering. When I removed the covering, there were some places that still needed to be filled and sanded. I also want to make a more scale bottom fairing on the bottom of the wing where the main landing gear wells are. The aft bottom fuselage, as open bays with no sheeting so I plan to fill in these small bays, so the fuselage will have a more rounded shape, where the sides and bottom meet. It's just begs for this to be done.

The wing has open panels/bays and I prefer a solid sheeted wing. While looking inside the wing, I found a shear web between the upper and bottom spar, that was split. It also looks that the shear webs seem to be placed horizontally between the spars, instead of vertically. This as been an issue in other ARF's that I've read about here on RCU, but with this plane being a two piece wing with two aluminum tubes acting as spars, may not be as critical as with a traditional one piece wood spar wing.

The manual, is actually pretty detailed, with many pictures and seems to have been by something who knows english, as the verbs and nouns are in the right place.

The servos in the wings are standard vertical mounted, with the top of the servo protruding. I plan to redo the servos mounts and have the lay on their sides, so only the wire to the aileron is exposed, much cleaner installation. The flaps will be modified to simulate the actual plane and use a "single slotted" design, where the hinge is located underneath the flap and behind the leading edge of the flap itself. This allows the flap to extend downward and the leading edge of the flap to then move upward ahead of the hinge line. When the air flowing underneath the wing gets to the leading edge of the flap, it then flows faster over the top of the flap. This is accomplished by creating a bit of a extension on the top of the wing trailing edge, thus creating a small gap between wing and the leading edge of the flap, allowing the air to be compressed or accelerated over the flap. [link=http://www.fubarhill.com/stol.html]Read this - Slotted Flaps - Tell me if I'm understanding this correctly![/link]

More hair brain ideas to come later.
Old 02-21-2009, 12:15 PM
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mimoore67
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Default RE: Siai Marchetti SF260 ARF

I should probably rename this build Sia Marchettin SF 260 ARC (As I took off all the covering.) Temporary insanity, followed by horrible need for perfection! So why did I buy a ARF! Two reasons, kids, one 5 one 3, so if I can build from a kit, due to time and the fact that you can't buy a kit for what a ARF costs and I like to tinker and improve things.

First picture shows the flaps strip and used my scroll saw to cut a 1/2" of the leading edge of the flap off. My flaps leading edge will actually pivot from the bottom so the angle with this ARF and most ARF's is that the use a top hinge, so my purposes the I just have to cut off the unneeded portion and then sand out a nice 1/2" radius.


Second Picture stripped wing. I think I'm going to run some CA in some areas.
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Old 02-28-2009, 06:08 AM
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Default RE: Siai Marchetti SF260 ARF

More Pictures of the build!

In these pictures, we have the bare frame of the wing. The sheeting on this wing is very soft and brittle. I'll be removing all of the rib caps and eventually sheeting the whole wing, for better scale appearance and strength.

Picture 1:
This is the flush servo mount I came up with for the Hitec 125 servo. It consists of three pieces of 1/4" ply, that I run through my saw to make a 1/4" strip. The three pieces are 1 1/4", 1" and 11/16". I use #2 Button Head Screws to hold the servo in place. I also will drill a 1/8" hole just below the mounting brackets of the servo, on the plywood mounts, to act as a pin for additional strength and act as key to locate the servo rails on plywood plate.

Picture 2:
Shows the over layout of the flush servo mounting plates.

Picture 3: Shows sheeting has been removed to reveal the plywood strips that servo plate will mount to.

Picture 4: It didn't occur to me that I would have to slightly angle the servos on the mounting plates, due to the angle of the trailing edge of the wing. Not a big deal. Just get a drafting triangle or some sort of straight edge and transfer the line to the servo plate. In this picture you can see I had to cut a little of the mounting rails. I also made a paper template, to trace the cut outs on the mounting rails. This last step, probably isn't necessary, as a pencil could trace around the servo mounting blocks, while you hold in place.

Picture 5: One wing done! I noticed as I moved on the flap servo, inboard on the wing, that with the angle of the servo, if I had the output shaft on the servo, would have the flap pus rod go through a rib. So what's nice about these flat servo's is just flip them over. On the flap servo, the output shaft points toward the fuselage. On the aileron servo, the servo horn will exit through the bottom of servo wing, to drive the aileron. The flap will be driven internally, there for nothing exit the bottom of the servo plate.
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Old 03-02-2009, 12:08 AM
  #20  
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Default RE: Siai Marchetti SF260 ARF

Hey MinMoore...

Thought I would drop in and sign up

Great stuff, keep it going!

Goose
Old 03-02-2009, 06:10 AM
  #21  
mimoore67
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Default RE: Siai Marchetti SF260 ARF

Thanks Goose! Been watching your build too! Learning a lot of good stuff!

Here's wheat I got done yesterday!

I got the flaps final sanded!
Hinged the ailerons (I have to redo one side, as I forgot how to measure). Robart Hinge Points! Boy, those are a little tough to get just right! I started out my using very small drills and using my fingers and eventually getting up to the 1/8" for the hinge itself. I used .200 drill, to created the pocket for the knuckle of the hinge. I also installed some balsa block behind the rear spar for some material the robart hinges.

Slowly but surely! Seems like I got more done than that done, but that took several hours. Tonight, I hope to get flaps hinged and sheet the top of the wing!
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Old 03-02-2009, 08:11 AM
  #22  
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Default RE: Siai Marchetti SF260 ARF

Hey MM...

Thanks for watching

Those Robart hingepoints can be really easy and effective.

Glue them all at once! No really. Try this...

[ul][*] Drill your hinge holes in both parts.[*] Work light oil or vaseline into the hinge knuckle being careful not to get any anywhere else.[*] Moisten (not wet) inside the holes with a Q-tip.[*] Apply Gorilla glue to one end of the hinge and put it in 3/4 of the way.[*] The moisture will make the Gorilla glue foam, so wipe away the excess.[*] Apply glue to the other end of the hinge and insert in other surface.[*] Work the surfaces together wiping the excess glue off as it foams.[*] Flex the surfaces back and forth a few times and all the hingepoints lineup
[/ul]

You do need to keep an eye on the hinges for a while as the glue continues to foam and a) come out and b) push the hinges out a little.

I am no expert but I have done this successfully once and planning to do it on the F4U.

Good luck!

Goose
Old 03-02-2009, 08:38 AM
  #23  
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Default RE: Siai Marchetti SF260 ARF

Goose, I hear you on the hinge points, as I've done them too, but it's been a while, so I'm slowly getting my technique back.

I almost bought some gorilla glue at the local home improvement store yesterday, as I watched the Video on RCU on installing hinge points. I'm probably going to use 30 min epoxy (zap).

I have a hour commute to work, so I have time to think and engineer my next steps for this project. I would like to get the hinges located for the flaps tonight! So, I'll be tracing the wing on piece of paper along with the flap, attempting to determine the point where the hinge will be located, so that the leading edge of the flap follows closely to the trailing edge of the wing, so there's a small gap.


Old 03-02-2009, 08:10 PM
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Default RE: Siai Marchetti SF260 ARF

Okay, both ailerons hinges have been fitted. Although I had to fill in one side and re-drill, because I was stupid.

Okay, So I need your guys help. I'm doing the slotted flaps and it's always a bit of a conundrum of where the hinge line should be. So, I did the tracing method that I saw here on RCU, but I added a 1/8" inch grid underneath the flap, to try and get a more precise location for the flap hinge placement. The idea here, is to get a gap at the top of the flap, that will be smaller, than the gap at the bottom of the flap when it is extended. The idea being that air will be compressed/channeled over the top of the flap, moving faster, aiding in lift.

So, does my theory and methods hold water? Comments welcomed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Old 03-02-2009, 11:29 PM
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mimoore67
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Default RE: Siai Marchetti SF260 ARF

Okay, more work tonight!

After settling on the flap arrangement, I decided to get the fuselage back out and take a look at a troublesome sport for me. The manufacture, didn't fully sheet the fuselage. So took some 3/16 balsa sheeting and cut the pieces out using my planer and some sanding bars to fit the pieces to fill the voids. I'll do the other side tomorrow. This will allow me to round the rear the fuselage out for more scale appearance.



Help Engine Choice. I have a 120 O.S. Pumper, my favorite engine and a New Magnum 91 and my tried tested O.S. 91 Surpass, all four-stokes. It PAINS me to cut a cowling. I will mount engines upside down or any way that will reduce the amount of cowling that has to be butchered.

The manual says this plane will be 9.3 pounds with 698 square inches of wing area. I realize that this plane could way in excess of 10 pounds, with retracts! I don't want rocket ship, but do you think this plane would be a DOG, if I put one of my 91's in the plane? Or should I stick with the 120!

M
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