telejojo

A nice gentleman asked me to madian his CMP Cessna 182 and I did righr into the ground...............Took off after working on engine to get it to idle and trans. I fly 2.4 so took off and it was all over the place so I brought it around to land and it spun in..........ANT. NOT OUT ON RADIO

outdoorhunting

oops.

maukaonyx

Oooooohhhhh, sorry that happened. Guys ask me to help them fly, and I am reluctant just because anything can go wrong, and I would feel bad even when not my fault. Thus they think I am chicken, but who cares.

MajorTomski

I hope, because you reccognize that you failed to pull out the transmitter antenna, that you are going to compensate him for your mistake.

ppkk

Not sure if compensation is required here.

I am relatively new to this hobby and have to ask for help from members of my club every now and then. When I ask for help, however, I know that people are doing it as a nice gesture and I wouldn't expect compensation if something went wrong. Afterall, the nature of this hobby is such that we challenge gravity and eventually gravity wins - when I ask for help from some one more experienced than I, I know that the chances of them putting my plane in the ground is less than if I were flying the plane, but no one is immune to mistakes and accidents.

opjose

I've often been asked to help out others maidening their planes.

If the engine dies in flight, the C.G. is wrong, a servo doesn't work right, etc. and the plane augurs in, I REPLACE THE PLANE at MY expense.

If I agreed to maiden the plane, it was - MY - responsibility to check that everything is OK.

The pilot that asked me for help, TRUSTED ME to do things correctly, and I take that trust seriously.

Fortunately I've only ever had to do this once.... but the ( victim ) recipient, while reluctant at first to accept the replacement, remains a good friend. I've often seem him flying the plane that I replaced ( and built for him ).

If you are asked to maiden someone else's plane, you are accepting responsibility.

If you in turn crash the plane, you need to own up and make it right.

If you cannot do so, DO NOT volunteer to maiden someone else's plane.

At very worst, warn them about the possibility of a crash and agree on responsibility.

grinder-RCU

My Feedback: (1)

Same feelings as above. When I ask someone to maiden a plane for me, before take off I always tell the person flying for me " I take full responsibility if it crashes " moreso to put their mind at ease money wise if anything happens.

brewski

Understanding before the flight is best. I can see it both ways to a degree but.....................if you really think about it, you have nothing to gain and lots to lose by flying someones plane for them. The down ant. mistake is easy after flying 2.4. Heck, it was easy to make that mistake even before 2.4.

k3 valley flyer

My Feedback: (18)

If I ask a friend to fly my plane and it crashes I would never let him replace it! I asked him, my responsibility. If someone I don't know asks to fly my plane and I let him, still my responsiblity. I don't have to ask and I don't have to allow. Now if my plane is sitting on the ground and someone steps on it or crashes their plane into it, then that is a different story. If someone asks me to fly their plane and I crash it, I would offer to replace it, but doubt we would be friends if they accepted. If flying a students plane that has been checked over throughly and deemed airworthy our instructors always advise them they are not responsible if it crashes before they ever take off. Even with a buddy box during training it is possible to get in a situation where recovery is imposiible, should not happen but can, especially during those first landing attempts. When I loan my car to a friend and he wrecks it whose insurance pays, mine. The car is my property and my responsibility to insure, letting someone use it doesn't change that.

ppkk

I agree that an understanding before the flight is best, but I am not sure if I agree that there is nothing to gain by helping others. Question that I would ask is: how did those who become experts get there? Possibly with help from others when they started?

One of the greatest things about this hobby is the willingness for people to help one another. When I first went to a flying field to investigate this hobby, I asked one of the club administrators what the training fees were, to which he answered: "none, you just pay the membership fee and hook up with an instructor." I thought this was amazing.

If and when I am at the level that I can help others - as others have helped me - I certainly will to ensure I can make it easier for others to get into this hobby.

Avaiojet

No model airplane should be flown without checking everything out. this means opening up the model to view all servo connections.

The balance of a model can make significence difference on how the thing flies, Balance must be checked.

The engine must run at all speeds and attitudes. If not, fix the problem or change the engine.

The modeler that asked for assistance must bear the results.

The modeler that agreed to fly the maiden flight has more courage than I have. And flying ability.

Charles

chashint

You are obviously a stand up guy, and while I would appreciate that if we shared a friendship, there is absolutely no way I would allow you replace a plane I had asked you to test fly / maiden if it crashed.
That just wouldn't be right for me to let you do that.

-pkh-

My Feedback: (2)

If someone is asked to maiden a plane, I believe he is obligated to do the best he can to ensure a successful flight. However, since he is not being paid for it, I don't believe there is any obligation on his part to replace the aircraft if something goes wrong.

Why would anyone agree to help a newbie maiden his plane if they get no money to do so, and are at risk of having to shell out $$$$ if something goes wrong! Good luck getting someone to help you with that attitude!

Many of the guys I fly with will make it very clear that they are not going to be responsible for a crash when asked to maiden someone's plane or take them up on the box. Given the attitude of some people out there, I guess you'd be wise to spell this out for them up front!

daveopam

My Feedback: (9)

I do all the maiden flights in my club. Once upon as time I would just grab the radio and go. Now I am a little more carefull. I check out the plane inside and out. This includes a CG check and making sure the AILE is not backwords.(Don't ask) Then I explane to the owner. If it comes apart because of something out of my control I will say I am sorry and it's not my problem. If I do something stupid we will work something out.

In this case I would have offered him something in my hanger to replace the plane. If he didn't want anything I have then tough luck. My pockets are not deep enough to replace a new plane. The owner has to take some of the hit. After all the test pilot was doing him a favor. Doing this way has so far cost me a Tiger2 with a ST .45. Much cheaper than loosing a friend.

David

outdoorhunting

PKH, I think I'm going along with your ideas. Although, when asked to maiden or help a "newbie" I feel you should do all you can to do. Also, the "upfront discussion" should ALWAYS be part of it. As OP & Avaiojet said, thoroughly check out the plane. At a club I used to belong to we had this guy wanting to fly. A buddy of mine had "trimmed it out for him. The new guy asked if I would help him by taking off & landing it . Being the buddy that maidened it was a very good pilot, I thought OK, what could go wrong. Aagh !! I taxied & took off, it was all over the sky, I'd give a little up elev & it would jerk up, a little down to level off & it would nose dive!! Talk about "pucker factor" I really don't know how I got the stupid plane on the ground,but did. As we were walking out to get it I asked him " I thought you said Joe maidened this the other day. He said,"well, yea, but when I got home I zeroed everything out to try it again. We took the wing off & this is no lie, the battery was just laying in there, the servo arms DIDN'T have the screws in them & the RX wires were tangled up with the control rods !! Like I said, "It's a wonder I got it on the ground. If it would have crashed, I probably would've bought him a new plane. How stupid was I for NOT checking it out.

brewski

You took my comment for something it was not intended to mean. I would give someone a plane to get them into the hobby if that is what it took and help as much as anyone.

homeboy61

Ya know guys I always have my friend maiden and set my planes up for me he is an 25 year expert in any ones eyes if he crashes it it`s been bought and paid for buy me and I would`nt even think about him replacing my plane !!!!
He always said to me if you dont want to lose it hang the ***** on the wall !!!!!!!!
It was a nice gesture that ya did replace it and I am sure you felt bad about not pulling out the antenna

captinjohn

This is kinda related. Have any of you noticed there are certain RC flyers that always want to fly your plane (or anyones plane) and always manage to fly about everones plane...if they can? I say those type of Guys should pay for the plane if they crash it. Period. Capt,n

speedy72vega

I was at the local airfield a couple of months ago, and there was a guy there that was watching me fly. My plane took a hard landing and separated the firewall from the fuse, so my day was done. He came up to me and showed me his plane, it was a foamie Corsair park flyer. He asked me if I wanted to fly his plane, because he was afraid to fly it. He had already crashed it several times, as he was a new pilot.
I told him that I didn't want to fly his plane, because if I crashed it, I would feel terrible. I was still a little rusty, as I had just started flying again after a 15 year layoff from flying. He told me that if I crashed it, he would be ok with it. There was an understanding before hand, so I reluctantly agreed. I would have felt awful if it crashed, but since we had the understanding, I wouldn't have felt responsible. I still most likely would have offered to pay for some of the repair cost though.
His biggest concern was taking off and landing, so I told him that I would take it up and then give the controls over to him. Well, once I got the plane in the air, it was all over the place. All of the rates were set to their highest levels, and it was VERY squirrely. I made a couple of circles to try to trim it, and on the second pass, he said "I'm not sure how much charge the battery has" (the plane is electric), and just as if someone hit a switch, the low voltage cutout kicked in. I had to make an emergency Harrier type landing, but I got her down in one piece!! Was hilarious.
I am always hesitant to fly other people's planes, too many things can go wrong.

-pkh-

My Feedback: (2)

Interesting, I've never had another RC pilot ask to fly one of my planes. I've had several kids and other people not in the hobby ask if they could fly it. They had no clue how difficult it is to fly, and simply thought it was another toy to try out! With them I have no problems saying "No, sorry, it's not for beginners!" Personally, I consider it rude or inappropriate to ask someone to fly their plane, knowing how much time and money goes into them, and how all too often things can go so wrong.

On the other hand, I've offered to let experienced guys I know fly one of my planes if they expressed an interest in it, and I've had guys I know offer to let me fly their planes.

If you ask to fly someone's plane, they are doing you a favor by letting you fly it. I believe if you crash it, you pay for it. If someone asks you to fly their plane for them to help them out, you're doing the favor for them.

bayareajeff

I totally disagree.. No one would ever help any one any more. There is a reason that they won't maiden it themselves. They are NOT sure they can handle it.

Totally Agree. Do this up front. No Guilt. No Responsibility except to help. If my build job and set up is poor, it is no ones fault but my own. I go over board the other way. I do not want a friend to feel that way at all for MY plane and build.

Just my opinion.

Jeff E

Mr. Mugen

A guy in our club actually has a waiver he has folks sign when he flies their planes....so far so good.

Kevin

daveopam

My Feedback: (9)

-pkh-, You are lucky. We have one of those guys in our club. He is a good pilot, it's not like he is going to do something stupid. It just gets old. I have gotten to the point I never let him fly when he ask. Later on I will ask him if he wants to try it. This has helped some.

David

victorzamora

I've been faced with other people needing me to fly their planes. A few were maidens, a few were to take-off, "buddy box" (play hot potato with the tx) and land, and one was because the guy just "wanted to watch it fly." I flew all of them reluctantly but reminded them that if anything went wrong that I couldn't be held responsible. On one of the maidens (a 40-sized Phoenix Extra), the engine cut out about 3min's in. Upon landing, I was hit by interference. The plane came out okay...but it had two close calls. I told the owner how nervous I was after landing because of both things that went wrong. However, he replied, "I'm just glad you were flying. I know that if anything would've happened to it, you'd be the one that would be able to recover from it." I think that if someone asks you to fly their plane because they feel like you're a better pilot, than anything you can't recover from (a problem with the plane) would've happened equally badly (or even worse) if they would've been flying it.

On the other hand, I think that if someone asks you to fly their plane and you crash it because you're doing something stupid (snap rolls feet off the ground, for example)...it's your sole responsibility. A guy wanted me to fly his plane to do: flat spins, knife edge, snaps, inverted, and a couple other things because he wanted me to tell him how hard I thought they were to do on his plane. I told him that I'd do them very high up for safety. He made me do all of them lower down so that I could see it better. I told him that if he allowed me to do them at altitude that I'd take responsibility for the plane in the event of a crash, but if he made me do them lower I wouldn't be held accountable. I didn't crash, but I think that's fair.

About asking to fly someone else's plane....I don't see that as rude. One example, my dad's Cub is flying weird. We haven't flown any other Cub, so we asked a guy at our field to let us both fly his Cub for a couple of laps to see if that was just Cub-by behavior or if it was our (my dad's) plane being weird. We made it clear that there was no pressure, and we wanted to do it with tons of altitude. I've also flown two of his brother's airplanes (one I bought, one I was going to buy). I've been fortunate enough to not have ever crashed someone else's plane...but I feel like had I have crashed, each time it would've been very obvious who's responsibility it was. Having said that, I only fly people's planes who are good friends or newbies that need help...except for one occasion. A guy told me to fly his 40% Carden Giles while it was in the air just so I could see how easy it was to fly. I had been drooling over it the whole day, and the guy insisted on me flying. He went WAY back with the people at my field, but I had just met him that day. Boy am I glad I didn't crash that one .

oldvet70

My Feedback: (10)

I have maidened a great number of planes for fellow modellers thru the years and I always tell them if something happens that is beyond my control I won't be held responsible. If they cannot agree to that simple request then I will not fly their plane. However failing to extend the antenna is not beyond your control and I think in this case you owe the owner an offer to make him whole again. Trying to rationalize that you fly '2.4' and somehow that makes you not responsible is a bit of a stretch to me. Whether or not he expects this is really his decision as he did let you fly the plane. I maidened a Great Planes Super Skybolt just today. The winds were 11 mph gusting to 20 mph. They were perpendicular to our runway. The plane was mine and therefore the risk was totally mine. Would I have maidened someone else's GP Super Skybolt today given the conditions? No. You have to know your own abilities prior to risking someone else's plane.