GP Super Stearman Gas vs. Nitro in cold climates?
 

Hello,
I'm trying to decide on an engine for my new GP Super Stearman, since I live in Canada, I will be flying on cold weather and snow 1/2 the time, I'm trying to decide between a Saito 180 and a Zenoah G-26 EI. I've heard that Nitro fuel can 'gel' in cold weather, but I love the sound of the Saito 180.
Just wondering if anyone out there has had experience either way?
Also, does anyone know how long the Stearman will fly on the stock tank for either of these engines?

RE: GP Super Stearman Gas vs. Nitro in cold climates?
 

You can get about 15 minutes of flying time with the G-26ei. I would also use high octane gas 91 - 100 if you can get it. I burn aviation 100 leaded in all of my gas engines year round.

C.L. Baker

RE: GP Super Stearman Gas vs. Nitro in cold climates?
 

The little gasser will be easier to start. Those little Zenoah's have a really power hungry ignition system and you may want to investigate that situation before deciding. You'll also have the issues with cold weather and battery life affecting the ignition system batteries as well as the rx batteries. The little beast will burn about 1/3 the fuel the Saito 180 will and it's lots cheaper. Don't know exactly what it'd be as I've not played with one but my 50cc gassers burn about 1oz. per minute, 'bout the same as my YS-110 and I'd expect that the 26 would be about half what my 50cc engine uses.

Glow engines are harder to start in cold weather and if it gets really cold you'll probably need some sort of way to pre-heat the thing but a good electric starter and adequate field battery to run it will be necessary.

While some gassers like ZDZ and BME require high octane fuel due to higher compression ratios, most do not benefit from using a higher octane fuel than the manufacturer recommends but it won't hurt anything to run high octane pump gas, whichever grade you decide on just make sure it's fresh and doesn't have any water in it.

Big debates go on about using AvGas in model engines but suffice to say I would not recommend it (being a licensed A&P Mechanic I've been around AvGas a lot) for various reasons including excessive lead content found in even 100LL. Some manufacturers like Desert Aircraft will void your engine warranty if you run AvGas and they can tell when the engine is disassembled.

RE: GP Super Stearman Gas vs. Nitro in cold climates?
 

I have seen this plane flown with both engines.
The Saito 180 will fly the plane with authority but will require a pound or more of lead in the nose to balance it. As previously stated the 180 is also VERY thirsty. The Zenoah G26 will balance the plane with no additional ballast but only gives very scale like performance. The G26 is very economical to run as stated previously.
If you are looking for power the Saito 180 will get you there, but at the price of expensive fuel.
If you are wanting a very scale flying plane the G26 is the ticket and cheap operating, but the down side is lack of performance.
Just depends on how you want to fly it.
I can't comment on how climate affects the engines. It doesn't get that cold here (compared to you).

wcb

You didn't ask about other gas engines so I won't go there.

RE: GP Super Stearman Gas vs. Nitro in cold climates?
 

Thanks very much for the advice guys, I have read through the 65 page thread on the GP super stearman and chose those engines based on comments taken from there.  However, the power hungry ignition at almost 2A draw has me concerned, so I may have to re-think gas engine choice.  I saw some nice pic's of a DLE 30 installed, but thought the Zenoah was a better engine. I am so confused...
I would like to buy the Saito FG-30, but my budget is limited.

RE: GP Super Stearman Gas vs. Nitro in cold climates?
 

Since you opened the door on the DLE 30 that is exactly the engine I would recommend. I have one (rear carb version) and it is a little powerhouse. I also have a Zenoah G26 but mine has a C&H ignition which doesn't have anywhere near the current draw of the stock Zenoah ignition.
The DLE 30 would be sweet on the Stearman.

WCB

RE: GP Super Stearman Gas vs. Nitro in cold climates?
 

Hi WCB,
Ok, so I have read up on the DLE-30 somewhat and noticed you helped another guy find a muffler that would fit within the cowl, is this the JTEC PITTS muffler for the DLE / DLA 30?
Also, since you have both the G-26, and DLE-30, is there alot of difference in power output?, vibration?
I have not seen what the HP rating is for the Zenoah.
I like the mounting of the g-26 vs the DLE-30, as those standoffs look like they will add to the vibration, any thoughts?
and is the carb intake stack needed on the g-26, i'm not sure it will fit with the cowl otherwise in my Stearman?
Sorry for all the questions, but I have searched and searched and can't find the direct answers I'm looking for.

Thanks,
Pizman.

RE: GP Super Stearman Gas vs. Nitro in cold climates?
 

pizman,
If you contact JTEC and tell them what engine you are planning to put in and which plane they will suggest a muffler for that application.

There is quite a bit of difference in power between the Zenoah G26 and the DLE 30. The 30 is stronger. There is also quite a bit of difference in weight. The G26 with elec. ignition weighs approx. 53 ounces and the DLE 30 weighs 39 ounces. On the Stearman the added weight of the Zenoah is a plus. If you use the DLE 30 you'll likely need about 12-14 ounces of lead in the nose to achieve the recommended CG or you could use a heavier ignition battery to save some lead. I hate adding lead, but the plane has to balance and sometimes you can't get around it completely.
As far as vibration neither engine is any better or worse than any other single cylinder gasser. Just make sure your props are balanced or they will vibrate every glue joint/nut/screw in the plane loose. Don't think the standoffs make it any worse. I'm running the stand offs that were included with the DLE with no problems.
As for the stack?? I dunno. I have heard both ways. Some say yes run it and others say no not necessary. Personally I don't use it and never had an issue.
PS: Pay no attention to manufacturer's HP ratings. I think they use the SWAG method (scientific wild ***** guess).:D
Hope this helps.
Bill

RE: GP Super Stearman Gas vs. Nitro in cold climates?
 

People are jawing here about a DLE 30 in the GP Super Stearman. Has anyone actually built one and flown it with the DLE? How much lead did you end up using if this project has come to fruition?

RE: GP Super Stearman Gas vs. Nitro in cold climates?
 

Pizman, I love the Saito 1.80 I have, and it is a great running engine. But the extreme thirst for high nitro fuel has seen me flying it less and less. I can fly my two gas planes all day long on much less than a gallon of gas/oil mix. The Saito can easily suck up 18-20 ounces on one flight. Of $20 gallon nitro fuel. I could even forgive its drinking habit, but no matter what you do, a certain amount of oil residue is going to get on the plane, and even living down here on the Gulf Coast where it is usually nice and warm, cleaning that crud off the plane and watching how it eventually ruins the Monokote on a nice airframe is disheartening. I can only imagine trying to clean it off a half frozen plane out in the cold. A well broken in gas engine will hardly leave any oil residue to clean off the plane, and it is much easier to deal with than castor or other methanol compatable oils.
For ultimate simplicity a magneto G26 would be hard to beat on the Stearman. With the right prop I have seen them fly very well, and unless you are trying to do some 3D with it I think you would like the combination. Here's the scenario: Fill up the 12 ounce tank. You don't need any more than that for 15-20 minutes of flight time. Switch off, choke engine a few cranks to draw in the fuel. Switch on, throttle set to two clicks above idle. Choke off, and a few flips of the prop and its off and running. Or if you prefer, a heavy duty electric starter will spin it up easily. No extra batteries, no glowplug connector, no muss, no fuss.

RE: GP Super Stearman Gas vs. Nitro in cold climates?
 

I am flying the GP Super Stearman with a rear carb DLE 30, Jtec pitts muffler and pre drilled spinner from Valley View. I did not add any other weight and it balanced right on the suggested mark. I am using two A123 battery packs, one for flight controls and the other for the ignition with one of the batteries positioned over the receiver and the other battery positioned forward and under the fuel tank. I use a dual silicon diode voltage dropping circuit (two 1N4007 diodes soldered in series) for the ignition system to keep at or below about 5 v. Maiden about a week and a half ago and now have about a dozen flights. Very nice engine and plane combination.

Also, you can buy an complete replacement Rcexl ignition for your Zenoah 26 from a number of vendors, most of which you will find in the 'buy & sell' forum of RCU.

Howard

RE: GP Super Stearman Gas vs. Nitro in cold climates?
 

In the cold I'd like a G26 mag with and adjustable choke, of course the dle 30 could also support a smoke system and weight the same as the g26

RE: GP Super Stearman Gas vs. Nitro in cold climates?
 

I'm curious why you asked this way..Do you have doubts? Only reason I ask is I want to go the same route and the DLE30 seems to be the ticket

RE: GP Super Stearman Gas vs. Nitro in cold climates?
 

I think so to, post some pic's please

RE: GP Super Stearman Gas vs. Nitro in cold climates?
 

I have a Supper Stearman with a Saito 1.80, stock tank . I have the timer set for 10 min. and try to have wheels on ground when the buzzer goes off, not much left. Pulls the Stearman around with authority!! Just a thirsty little bugger. I use 15% fuel.