Structual Failure
 

A friend of mine was flying his brand new RichModels Extra 260. While flying he experienced structual failure in the empanage. He managed to get the plane on the ground sucessfully with no additional damage. He informed the vendor and they refused to do anything for his almost loss. They blamed the incident on him and said he exceeded the structual limitis of the airframe. This I can atest is not true and upon eximination of the airframe it appeared that an abundance of glue joints in the tail section had seperated. Is there any recourse my friend can take against the vendor?

RE: Structual Failure
 

Can he repair it and add Dubro flying wires onto the empennage and keep flying it?
Chris...

RE: Structual Failure
 

There is most likely some sort of action you could take but it would probably cost significantly more than the airframe is worth.

As an Engineer by profession, I would say the vendor is right. The fact the airframe broke in the air is proof that the structural strength was exceeded ;). Of course the strength may well have been significantly low so as to render the airframe unsafe to use [&o]

Unfortunately there are quite a few ARF manufacturers that make some real junk then sell it cheap. It really is a buyer beware world out there. The suggestion to fix it and apply flying wires is a good one. I do feel sorry for your buddy and the hassle he is going to go through to do that.

RE: Structual Failure
 

That is somewhat insulting isn't it?

It would seam many ARFs are not built to take much aerobatic punishment,,
They tend to focus on building them as light weight as possible for 3D style flying, not building them strong for high G stress.

Towards the end of the season a guy had a brand X ARF out at the field, (I can't remember the off brand name), He was flying it hard and full throttle thought the whole flight each time, We all just looked at each other knowing it was just a matter of time before it comes apart.

A different guy was flying an Aerobat in a similar way a few weeks earlier,, all the sudden Aileron Flutter,, he was able to get it down,, one servo mount in the wing had compleely come loose, the other was starting to come loose also,,, he was lucky.

RE: Structual Failure
 

ARFs come with the warning that the flier takes full responsibility of the thing once it is flying. Its there in every manufacturer's manual. Dumb as that may seem, the manufacturers are simply saying they have no liability for their product. It wouldnt have been acceptable in any other industry but there doesnt seem to be any standard in the aeromodelling field. I am not defending the manufacturer, thats just the way the hobby is right now.

The best we can do is be sure ourselves. Every flier needs to take his ARFs and strengthen them using CA, epoxy, lite ply and tristock when assembling. This crash may not have caused much damage but the next one could even hurt someone. Reinforcement of the airframe is the way to go. If you are not happy with the ARF quality, you could go into kit building, but then 3D wouldnt be possible

Ameyam

RE: Structual Failure
 

Thank you all for taking the time to respond to my inquiry, I figured correctly, the buyer assumes full responsibility. What a shame for the average "Joe".

RE: Structual Failure
 

Though there are exceptions to every rule................. if you buy cheap, you usually get what you pay for. How many times have we heard this story of the cheap ARF that came apart?.

RE: Structual Failure
 

As if paying a lot for a plane is any guarantee against this occuring... or will "fix" overstressing the airframe.

I've had several of the major players planes come apart w/o undue forces, due to poor designs in retentions, etc. much to the surprise of onlookers.

The OP is advised to go over ANY model carefully, no matter the vendor or price.

RE: Structual Failure
 

Hey Flycatch, I had a similar situation with "nitroplanes". There suggestion was for me to purchase a new plane. I then warned them that I would blog my woes all over the internet especially Rcuniverse, watt flyer etc. It worked, and I got a full refund. Don't be afraid to share bad experiences with vendors; they KNOW that a refund is always cheaper than "BADPRESS". Plus, your fellow pilots need to know in order to reward the good guys and punish the bad guys.

RE: Structual Failure
 

I advised my friend to do what you have done the day it happened. Since that time, three days ago, he has rebuilt the tail assembly and probably be back flying it by next weekend. Myself and several others advised against this but he choose otherwise. The isuue of the tail failing has not really been addressed and I personally believe it will fail again. He was lucky the first time.

RE: Structual Failure
 

I have a RichModels Yak 54. It's EP or Glow. Will built but built lite. Had to reinforce the fire wall after the first landing and replace the landing gear after the third landing. If I would have done this in the beginning it would have been fine. I just didn't do it. Most ARFs need some reinforcing.

RE: Structual Failure
 

Manufacturers respond to the squeaky wheel (and largest profit margin) so todays RC marketplace gravitates to the 3D flyer. Their demand is for lighter everything without regard for personal ability or inability to operate the airframe or equipment properly.

While every club or site has several good 3D pilots who rarely break anything there are ten to one who bang the sticks to get the biggest oohs! They spend a lot of money on broken airplanes, engines, radio, etc.

Our club has them too. One local flys excellent, smooth 3D and has yet to break anything, a half dozen others plant $3-$4K with regularity either due to overstressed airframes or "wow" it right into the ground.

Basically they get what the want...lightweight fragile airplanes that won't take much abuse.

The manufacturers/distributors are correct in their no free replacement position unless you can prove the airframe has not been over stressed. They all have heard the claim, "it came apart flying level at 1/4 throttle." I've seen it happen too, but you should have seen how the owner was jerking it around yesterday!!

RE: Structual Failure
 

This is a story more often told than we would like, most often with far worse results. ARF companies in general do NOT do R&D anymore, so the consumer is on his own when it comes to potential airframe issues. Just, the way it is these days. The experienced RC builder and pilot sees what is not good and fixes it before it ever leaves the ground. The rest need to seek the aid of those with more experience to prevent these "experimental" planes from meeting a premature end.

RE: Structual Failure
 

Not being rude, when was the last time you tried to evaluate the glue joints in the tail of the plane? This is almost impossible. The appearance of the plane looked super. Hot glue joints don't survive the knock of a 100cc engine. This I believe what happened to this plane. I have several ARFs but nothing this big. The pilot did not induce this failure. Tthe manufacture did this. Many posters have brought this to light and I still hold the manufactire responsible for this tragedy.

RE: Structual Failure
 

No offense taken. I inspect just about all of them and most definably in the giant scale. so the last time would be the last ARF I assembled, a 50c RC League Yak54. The tail is assembled by the user, and this gives me an opportunity to look at the aft before it is assembled. I usually add glue to this area if not more wood to strengthen the tail gear mount and surfaces. I have found poor gluing in many planes in this area. In addition, I often add flying wires to the tail of an aerobatic giant. Just good policy IMO.

I started in the hobby over 40 years ago when we would build everything, so even removing some covering if necessary to expose a questionable area is not a problem for me. I consider it cheap insurance and gives me much more piece of mind about the airframe. I like to be able to thrash an aerobatic plane around if I feel the mood. Seeking out locals with similar abilities is wise IMO.

Yes, ultimately, the manufacturer is to blame for these defects, but I just don't see anything changing in the foreseeable future. If we continue to buy these inexpensive planes, this is what we will have to do to make them better. I expect it. I small price for the savings we are getting in the long run, is it not.

RE: Structual Failure
 

There is always a lemon in the batch and your pal probably received the unlucky fuse. It happens.

I don't know of any ARF manufacturer that uses 'hot glue' and that myth has been debunked by Horizon and Great Planes many times. The Chinese factories normally used industrial glue guns that mix epoxy as it exits the tip. Many different formulatons can be used and most seem to use one that is a bit flexible when cured. This is actually a benefit to vibrating joints but if the formula cures too fast it lacks penetration into the wood, much like 5 minute expoxy vs. 30 minute.

Your pal has already taken the right approach by repairing and moving on. There is no disagreement to the frustration encountered and the possibility all could have been lost.

Lastly I disagree that it is almost impossible to check glue joints in the tail, especially in a 33% airframe. A couple of good twists of the tail feathers and fuselage accompanied by popping noises is the best alert I know of to potential joint failures. This works on smaller airframes too.

The best part is once it is repaired he will not have to worry about it again.