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-   -   Kangke Waco Biplane (https://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/arf-rtf-75/1172246-kangke-waco-biplane.html)

OVER WORKED 09-30-2003 03:45 PM

Kangke Waco Biplane
1 Attachment(s)
What do you guys think of this Bipe?
It's modeled after Jimmy Franklin's Waco. 72" top, 64" bottom, 1660 sq. in, 62" long, 13 pounds 9 ounces ready to go with a ZDZ40, power flight batteries and Hitec radio gear, four ailerons. For 120 glow to 2.4 gas. The wings are two piece on an alum tube.
I finished the design and it has been proto typed, do you think we should build it?

xtraflyr 09-30-2003 04:00 PM

RE: Kangke Waco Biplane
I think it should be made.. It's a different change of pace from all the other planes out there... Is it me or did you stretch the nose out a little?
Anyway, yea make it avail.

clemrick 09-30-2003 05:14 PM

RE: Kangke Waco Biplane
:D Yeah, make it available in an ARF with hardware, Wheels, fuel tank (gas or glow), lots of cool decals and a certificate for an engine of our choice all for under $400 and you got yourself a sale!!!!!! Just kidding of course. It is a real nice looking plane.
Build it!!


therotund1 09-30-2003 05:36 PM

RE: Kangke Waco Biplane
(In a whispering voice).... If you build it,,,,, I will buy....

I've always loved the Waco bipes. I have the 60 sized one from Sportsman Aviation on the way. I'd love a bigger, and I'm sure, a better one.

ptgarcia 09-30-2003 05:49 PM

RE: Kangke Waco Biplane
Beautiful! Definately build it. And include the nice aluminum hardware like my Laser 2000 has!

Mike Bogh 09-30-2003 05:55 PM

RE: Kangke Waco Biplane
Ditto the above...If the price point is right, I'll pre order.

OVER WORKED 09-30-2003 05:57 PM

RE: Kangke Waco Biplane
1 Attachment(s)
xtraflyr, good eyes! the fuse has been stretched 1 inch in the front wing saddle and 3 inches behind. This was necessary to accommodate the range of engines without ballast, and to increase pitch and yaw stability without giant tail surfaces. The airfoil has also been altered to move the CL aft, and to improve its aerobatic performance. The removable top hatch goes from the fire wall to the back of the cockpit giving access to the entire inside of the fuse.

TLH101 09-30-2003 06:33 PM

RE: Kangke Waco Biplane
If it does go into production, you should consider exploring the ARC market. There is a lot of UPF-7's out there to model it after. Besides, Jimmy's black & silver bird looks better. Too much red at the fields these days. However, it a very kool subject.

crossup 09-30-2003 07:40 PM

RE: Kangke Waco Biplane
Ray, as I have little or no interest in scale bipes, I wont vote. However I did want to give you guys a nudge towards continuing with the standard aerobatic machines. I just purchased your Texas Hurricane(my 3rd SuperKraft plane) and it will be my last Kangke unless you expand your aerobat lineup. The reason being Im buying increasingly large planes and you dont have anything to fit the bill. Also Im convinced there is a market for more modern designs(2 pc wings, stabs, CF gears etc) that are significantly lighter than current ARFs. If I could get a smaller plane that would fly as "big" as a 35-40% I would much happier with than the constant reinvesting in larger planes. I think, you know, that a light plane will fly much bigger in most cases.
I can understand your wanting to expand you product line and thereby sales, but since you built your fine reputation for quality ARF with aerobatic planes, why abandon that? You have the reputation that many other manufactors strive for, why not be the innovators too and develop the next generation super high performance ARF or my preference, ARC? ;)

mar345 09-30-2003 08:51 PM

RE: Kangke Waco Biplane
Very nice but too many gaudy red airplanes out there already. I would buy the Monocoupe and the Waco as an ARC to finish in the colors of my choice. It would be nice if the Monocoupe were offered in a single light color such as cream or white so that it could be trimmed as desired and thus afford a little originality on the part of the modeler.

cstevec 09-30-2003 09:57 PM

RE: Kangke Waco Biplane

Sounds like a real nice plane. I have 3 Bipes now and am always in the market for another, but like others have stated I would prefer an ARC version to be available as well. Second, it has to be reasonably priced. Goldberg is releasing a similar size Ultimate but the price will drive myself and others away when you look at the cost of a Great Planes Pitts or Christian Eagle with a street price of around $400-$450, it's kinda hard to look at $600-$800 dollar planes.

I have your 60 size Extra by the way and really like the quality of the Kangke/Super Kraft planes.

AJF--2 09-30-2003 10:06 PM

RE: Kangke Waco Biplane
I too like the black and silver better---- AND I DO HATE THE FACT THAT ALMOST EVERY NEW ARF IS RED SOMEWHERE. I know where you will sell another one--regardless of the color!! I have heard the rumors and been waiting. (Is the rocket engine included?)

OVER WORKED 10-01-2003 04:45 AM

RE: Kangke Waco Biplane
I will discuss the ARC idea with the upper management, but the lower sales volume, additional packaging cost, and higher rate of shipping damage make it unlikely. As far as the black and silver that Franklin uses on his Mystery ship as well as Waco, I have concerns about keeping the covering stable and interior temp down in the southern sun, but that too will be discussed. A white or cream base is a possibility.

AJF--2 10-01-2003 06:34 AM

RE: Kangke Waco Biplane
Cream and burganday would be nice-- or white and yellow-- but please-- I wish all of the ARFs would get away from the 7 color schemes of orange, red, green, etc... that seem to be the norm. I truly love the "Classic" simple set up you have here of a simple traditional 30's aerobat.

(But I know somebody will soon POST the question "WILL IT HOVER?-- how is it at 3D?)

OK- I can take a hint--No rocket strapped to the bottom:D-- How about a miniture Kyle doing the wing walk?:D

OVER WORKED 10-01-2003 07:28 AM

RE: Kangke Waco Biplane
Have no fear, we will not abandon the aerobatic planes. There are both 35% and 40% planes being designed as we speak. You must understand, there is a long process of testing before we will put a design in production and many don't make it. We also pay close attention to the market, and the large number of "small" gas engines being introduced is a clear indicator that this is a direction a major portion of the fliers are headed. There are not many pilots that can afford a $2000 40% bird that needs a $1500 engine and $1000-$1500 in digital servos, flight gear, and battery packs. In the long run the sales numbers tell the story. The Monocoupe is not aerobatic yet they are selling almost as fast as we can make them, this is because not everyone wants a hot bird. We feel the people who fly to relax are just as important to this sport as anyone and deserve just as much attention.
At under 14 pounds with a ZDZ-40 yes it will hover, 3-D testing has just begun. If you want to hang a turbine from the bottom PLEASE SEND ME A VIDEO OF THE FIRST FLIGHT, just in case there isn't a second...:D :D :D

ptgarcia 10-01-2003 09:50 AM

RE: Kangke Waco Biplane
Keep up the good work Ray, I'm a big supporter of your company. You guys make an outstanding product and back it up with unsurpassed customer service!

RickC2009 10-01-2003 10:40 AM

RE: Kangke Waco Biplane

I would just like to say I never had a kangke plane I didn't like!
While I am not into scale aerobatics scale planes like the Waco, it sure does look nice.
I know there is a big market for these type of scale planes but like crossup mentioned you have not updated any of your current aerobatics planes. I don't mean 40% planes just the ones you already have. I just think that you are loosing all the customers you have made over the years because there are no new aerobatics plane like: edges katans and fun fly planes like profiles or the new pattern/ 3d planes. And you have not updated the cap extra or Giles. What going on with them? It just seems weird to make all these aerobatics customers over the years and then start selling Biplanes. Why not a an ultimate?


OVER WORKED 10-01-2003 12:05 PM

RE: Kangke Waco Biplane
I'm glad you like our products and we do continue to improve them. In the last two years or so we have added the Cap 232 sport, Fun 50, Monocoupe, Rearwin Speedster, did a full re-design on the Astro, up-graded the Hurricane and the SK-50 and now the Waco. Kangke does not have a lot of engineers (there are three of us), we do this ourselves with the help of some very talented people in the field. Every new design must be tested almost to destruction, changes made and tested again until we are satisfied with the result. Only then will production start. You will also notice that we like to make models that are not found in large numbers at every field. I'm not sure if there is a field in the USA that doesn't have an assortment of Edges, Extras, and Caps, but how many have gas powered Wacos and Monocoupes? The Waco is a full on aerobat with a symmetrical wing, so far has done anything we have asked, it's stable in a hover does nice blenders and lands at a walk, I just didn't think the RC world needed another Ultimate.

mar345 10-01-2003 01:51 PM

RE: Kangke Waco Biplane

There are several of us who would like to have the Monocoupe in a basic white or cream color to trim out in a color of our choice. Or as an alternative trimmed somewhat more conservatively like some of the privately owned aircraft of the era rather than that wild airshow scalloped red and white. Basic cream with a little light blue trim or basic white with a little bright red would appeal to us scale buffs. Whats the chance? I'd be willing to pay a premium for the color scheme of my choice if I can't get an ARC.

beardking 10-01-2003 02:05 PM

RE: Kangke Waco Biplane
Over worked, Underpaid here. :D
Actually, I just wanted to comment on your plane. I love it. I think that their needs to be a better selection of bipes in the ARF arena. And like you said, we don't need another Ultimate (even though I have one). I also like how you understand that there are pretty much enough Edges, Extras and Caps at the fields. It's nice to see something different every once in a while.

SMALLFLY- 10-01-2003 02:20 PM

RE: Kangke Waco Biplane
It's gorgeous, make one in red and one in cream, easy enough to trim to your liking. I would want 4 aileron servos in a bird that size

dennisB 10-01-2003 02:22 PM

RE: Kangke Waco Biplane
Please do build this one, I like the size and Jimmy Franklin's crazy machine is a great subject. The scheme that you're showing is a little weak...come up with something that really pops and you wil sell a ton! Any idea on price yet?

MSP1957 10-01-2003 02:35 PM

RE: Kangke Waco Biplane
Got some more pics?? Very nice loking. Limited number of ARF Bipes.


Volfy 10-01-2003 02:59 PM

RE: Kangke Waco Biplane
Over worked, didn't you used to work under Oveur and over Dunn? Sorry, I just keep getting reminded of the movie Airplane. :)

I was seriously looking at the GP Christen Eagle before I saw your Waco. I like this one a lot better. It isn't as unwieldy as the Pitts/Christen Eagle, but it's not overly sharp like the Ultimate. It also isn't as stodgy as the Tiger Moth and the rest of the WWI bipes. The Waco bipe is one of those that has the right blend of modernity and classic golden era appeal. Dig that radial cowling.

You're absolutely right about the migration towards mid-size gassers. Many of us have realized that in order to use gas power effectively, the plane needs to be scaled at least a little larger than a 1.20 size.

Chalk up a big yes for me.

One word of caution, though. Don't make the same mistake Global did with the 86" Super Pinocchio, err... I mean, Super Decathlon. I have one of those, and the single biggest complaint I've heard is regarding the awkwad snousal dimension. Lucky for them, they'd wisely left the firewall box unfinished, so I simply slide the cowl further back on the fuselage to correct the proportions. Most who buy this model will be using a gasser, so keep that in mind when finalizing the design.

OVER WORKED 10-01-2003 04:31 PM

RE: Kangke Waco Biplane
We want you to know that because of your response here at RCU and through all the e-mail we are going to put it in production as soon at the testing is complete.
smallfly-RCU I can make it for four aileron servos, but it will be overkill as it only needs 70 oz-in per pair for 30-degrees deflection @ 55MPH.
DennisB It's my understanding that pre production orders will be taken at $450 with normal retail at $499.
Volfy-RCU I designed the plane with small gas in mind and the cowl can be slid almost 2-inches to compensate for engine length and to aid in balance.
All the suggestions here are being discussed carefully and we are very grateful to all of you for your support and help. Now is the time to make changes so please keep them coming.

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