RE: Have CA Hinges Ever failed on you? Vote!
 

Swoop,

C'mon....I've assembled many, many, many planes over the years since these CA hinges were introduced, and have had failures on most of them. I did everything but pat my head and rub my belly to get these to work....they just don't work as promised.

Obviously, you've been lucky, however, this thread would not be here if there was NOT problems with their use, or reliability.

My reasoning?.... Sure, you can't tug them out....but God forbid you start flexing them at a rate un-accustomed to epoxied hinges.

Gary

RE: Have CA Hinges Ever failed on you? Vote!
 

I've had pretty good luck with them, and have had failures as
well. The problems I've had with broken hinges comes from
using too much CA. One set of instructions I read, said to use
6 or 8 drops of CA on each side of the hinge....which is WAY WAY
too much....it cause failure in a short time.

I still like CA hinges in the .90 size planes and below....but now
I double up on the hinges, only use 3 drops on one side and 2
on the other, and use clear Mono-cote to seal (and strengthen)
the hinge lines. This makes them bullet proof. I also like the tight gaps.

RE: Have CA Hinges Ever failed on you? Vote!
 

The name's swooper, sir

Sounds like you used the same technique over and over?

Thank you, I make my own luck by working carefully. Also, I'm not a speed demon, just the usual sport flyer not trying to overtax my models. Besides, there's plenty of that kind of luck going around because there are plenty of us who haven't experienced these failures.

Of course we have problems with every product we use, and that's my point. We as a group abuse stuff and it fails. Shoddy work practices, wrong adhesives, and inappropriate applications (used in .40 size models with .90 engines) are likely behind these failures.
Before I'll take somebody's word that a product is "junk" I want to see how it was installed, used, and abused. Polls like this one can't tell the whole story. I'm not trying to start a war, just resisting this tendency on some people's part to malign a good product on the inadequate grounds that it didn't work for them.

From Sig's webpage on Easy Hinges "Suitable for all models - 1/2A thru .90 size." In other words, they are not for use with gas engines and 1.80 4strokes.

RE: Have CA Hinges Ever failed on you? Vote!
 

For those who are using crayon on the mid line, how wide is the crayon line ? If the line is too wide, it may interfere with the flow of ca glue and end up with more flowing into one side of the hinge ?

RE: Have CA Hinges Ever failed on you? Vote!
 

I have been flying for 5 years now and all I ever use is ca hinges and I have never had one fail(knock knock). I have them on a gp patty, a hangar 9 cap 1/4 scale, a gp pitts many big planes and all are O.K. The biggest problems I see with the installation is 1. people push the gap to tight. 2. they don't drill a small hole in the center of the slot to let the ca wick int the hinge better. 3. they get a covering iron to close to the hinge when sealing the gaps and this will make the hinge brittle.

RE: Have CA Hinges Ever failed on you? Vote!
 

B&B Specialties makes a 1/4 scale CA hinge. Seems very nice! Probably similar to radio souths. I have a DP extra and modified all surfaces for Robart points, except for the elevators. Unfortunately the elevators do not have enough space to properly install a robart point, as the mount tube gets in the way. That is why I kept with the CA hinges for elevators. While I have not yet flown this plane, Im hoping this set up is oK! I have a Zenoah G-45 mounted to the nose, and the plane is pretty awesome looking! Cant wait to fly it! Oh yeah, I sealed all the gaps.

RE: Have CA Hinges Ever failed on you? Vote!
 

The fact that the majority of CA hinges don't fail prematurely is testiment that they do work, if they are installed properly. I wonder how many folks actually follow the directions given for CA hinge installation to the letter. It is absolutely important that you:

1. Drill hole through the center of the slot for CA to wick into

2. Get the slot tightnes just right. Too tight and CA won't wick properly, Too loose and the joint is substantially weakened.

3. Leave a gap to allow enough CA hinge material to flex. Seal gap later with Monotcote or tape.

4. More control surface deflection = larger hinge gap required.

5. Make certain that ALL the CA hinges on the same line are intalled in a straight line and that no pre-tension or binding exists on any of them.

6. Take precautions to avoid flutter - CA hinges are probably blamed for more crashes where the real cause was flutter than folks realize.

ANYTHING will fail given enough service life and operator abuse. However, done properly mylar CA hinges are an excellent material.

RE: Have CA Hinges Ever failed on you? Vote!
 

I've assembled and flown many ARF's, and so far not a single CA hinge has failed on me yet. I always squeeze the wood that a CA hinge is installed into while dropping CA onto the hinge. This ensures that the mating surfaces are tight for a strong bond.

RE: Have CA Hinges Ever failed on you? Vote!
 

The Sonic Tronics with the slot work really well and stay away from the junk supplied with most arf's.I've used them on just about everthing without a problem.As a matter of fact I've encountered problems with epoxy hinges pulling out after time.Just remember a good preflight is a great idea before every flight. Mike

RE: Have CA Hinges Ever failed on you? Vote!
 

Only one that ever came out on me was when another plane taxied too close and chewed my elevator with his prop, so I cannot really say that it failed.

RE: Have CA Hinges Ever failed on you? Vote!
 

I replace all my arf hinges with sonictronics hinges too and have had good results with them so far. I suppose they are also made of mylar......

RE: Have CA Hinges Ever failed on you? Vote!
 

I'm obviously in the minority here, but my luck with CA hinges hasn't been very good at all.
Although I have never had a CA hinge pull out, I've had way more than my share of torn CA hinges.

CG Chipmunk; broke an elevator hinge twice, then broke a rudder hinge.
Diamond Dust; broke an elevon hinge.
Midwest Sukhoi; broke an elevator hinge.
CG Eagle 2; broke an elevator hinge. but replacement CA hinges are still working perfectly to this day.
H9 Advance; these CA hinges never broke, but the plane died prematurely.
Sig Fazer; broke a rudder hinge.
Morris Sledge; broke a rudder hinge.
GP UCanDo; broke a rudder hinge, then broke an elevator hinge, then broke two aileron hinges.

The Chipmunk, Sukhoi, Eagle 2, Fazer, and Sledge were acquired as used planes with the CA hinges already installed.
The Diamond Dust, and UCanDo were hinged by me. The Eagle 2 elevator was rehinged by me.
The H9 Advance came with factory installed CA hinges.

The Chipmunk, Sledge, and UCanDo had pull-pull rudder systems, so the CA rudder hinge failures didn't really surprise me. But the Advance also had a pull-pull rudder system, and those CA hinges never failed.

I guess CA hinges just weren't meant for me. [:o]

RE: Have CA Hinges Ever failed on you? Vote!
 

Ummmm....No..... perhaps you weren't able to understand what I said?



Yeah, but there's also a good percentage that HAVE had failures. Numbers don't lie, OH WAIT.... every failure MUST be due to poor workmanship, or flying faster than a 40 size cub with a 25 size motor. :eek:


Well, beg to differ with ya swooperer, but these kinds of polls tell us a great deal about the products we use, and how they are performing.

CA hinges "can" fail, whether you think so or not. If your having good luck with'em, well good for you, but don't imply that everbody that's had one go bad was due to the fault of their own, as that is simply not true.

Gary

P.S. "I owed ya that extra *er* from the first post". ;)

RE: Have CA Hinges Ever failed on you? Vote!
 

Well obviously CA hinges due have the possibilty of failing as the poll is showing. I think the percentages of the poll are a bit skewed for some reason and I would bet that they don't fail at as high a percentage as the poll is showing. Perhaps people with failures are more motivated to answer the poll.

What is even more interesting to me are the written responses that seem to be following a trend. People with failures tend to have multiple failures. People without failures obviously have multiple successes so can we conclude that those with failures are doing something wrong to cause those failures?

Another thing to consider is the comparison to other types of hinges and the notion that pinned hinges have fewer failures. I would guess that CA hinges are used on more than 75% of todays models so to say they have more failures is misleading, more models should have more failures even if the percentage of failures are the same.

Perhaps the most disconcerting thing about CA hinges is the fact that people have multiple failures which leads me to believe that there is less tolerance for improper installation technique. I think you might be able to get away with fudging the size of the hole or glue application or whatever with a pinned hinge yet a CA hinges won't hold up as well when everything isn't done by the directions. Also a pinned hinge when not lined up correctly will bind and be hard to move yet a CA hinge will still move but, just may wear a lot faster. It is also impossible to not have enough gap with a pinned hinge that will cause stress on the hinge where CA hinges need that gap so as not to be stretched when deflected.

To get a scientific study of CA hinges a multiquestion poll would be neccasary administered by someone with a statiscal background. This poll is good for conversation but the results I feel are not indicitive of reality.

RE: Have CA Hinges Ever failed on you? Vote!
 

It looks to me like well over 50% of those who have posted here have had a problem of some sort. Almost 30% with complete failure.

I'm not really sure why those who haven't had a failure, refuse to believe any of them. [sm=confused.gif]

I have a Lanier "Explorer" trainer that has had maybe....15-20 flights, and 1/2 of the split elevator had a CA hinge break. Was it it me? Was it too much power? Too much throw? The answer is.....NO, NO, and NO.

Recommended throw, a ST 45 strapped on the front, and....PRE-GLUED CA hinges.

I fixed the (broken) one half with "Flex-Point" hinges, and will fix the second half after that one fails. :eek:

Luckily, I didn't lose the plane.

RE: Have CA Hinges Ever failed on you? Vote!
 

A poll like this tell us a great deal about what people THINK about the failure rate of a product.

Unless everyone who answered this poll all work for NTSB and conducts a thorough investigation into each crash to determine the actual cause, I personally would only give it as much credibility as it deserves.

When you have the majority of people having very rare to no CA failure, and some that experience repeated failures - plane after plane - I'm much more inclined to believe either one of two things:

1. The air where you live contains high concentration of diethylmethalglycolisopropylene, which attacks the mylar CA hinges, or...

2. Ah... never mind.;)

RE: Have CA Hinges Ever failed on you? Vote!
 

I have a Tiger II And I used the no name hinges on ailerons.

What should i do?

What do i do if they break?

RE: Have CA Hinges Ever failed on you? Vote!
 

No, wrong.....it tells you what they know about their failure rate.

Can you not see the stats at the beginning of this thread??? Where does it show the "majority" that your talking about??? If I'm missing something, please let me know so I can stop correcting your stat figures... :eek:

Dats phunny...you make joke.... hahaha

Hmmmm, now that I think of it....maybe it does....I have been noticing a small cough lately..... :D

RE: Have CA Hinges Ever failed on you? Vote!
 

Airgar,
You have a Lanier Trainer with 15-20 flights, what other planes do you own? Have you had any other problems with CA hinges? You asked if it was you that caused the failure (infering faulty instalation) and answered NO. It could be faulty installation by the factory er...kid in China.

RE: Have CA Hinges Ever failed on you? Vote!
 

40 AT6- failed CA hinges on rudder/installed by me

DragonLady- failed CA hinges on elevator/ailerons/ installed by me

40 F-20- Tigershark-failed CA hinges on ailerons/installed by me

Joss Stick- elevator/installed by me

15 SST-elevator/installed by me

Should I go on? There have numerous Sticks, an Ultra Sport, Air Cruiser, Viper, Mustang, and many more that I can't think of.

The thing is....I have been using these since about day one, and after one had failed, I thought maybe I had done something wrong. So I'd try them again with a different method of installation, and then another, and another, etc.. I kept thinking that I must be doing something wrong as Hobby Club USA racing team swore by them, even on their big stuff, however, my installs were the same as thiers so go figger. (yeah, I had asked them)

Lately, I have been using the epoxy hinges and have NOT had one of them fail. There are guys where we fly who feel the same way and started using the Flex-Points too.

I am currently putting together a GS P-51 Mustang, and the hinges came pre-glued.....Thank God they aren't CA as I will have some money tied up in this.

I don't build 'cheaply" and will not hesitate to buy the very best for any plane I build, and I will replace all hardware on any ARF to insure reliability, however, it is those dang SIG CA hinges that I have had enuff of. I thought they were the "best", boy, was I wrong.

Shoot, you may have to rename this the AirGar thread... ;)

Gary

RE: Have CA Hinges Ever failed on you? Vote!
 

Hi well Ive asked many others at our club about the use of ca hinges ! its like this forum . mixed !!
I started in this R/C 3 1/2 yrs ago and yep all my 13 planes have ca hinges ! but due to the info and uncertainty I think Im going to buy a bag of robarts and start replacing the hinges in all my planes !! ive been looking for a winter project and along with building a ultimate bipe and cub and uproar I thing all robarts are in the making !!
I want to belive that ca hinges are ok but i have lost planes befor but not due to hing failure but pilot error !! but looing a plane isnt fun at all and replaceing hinges and or double checking them sounds like an ok thing to do to me !
Im on my way to the LHS tomarrow morning and buying a bag of robarts just because !

RE: Have CA Hinges Ever failed on you? Vote!
 

2 Somethin Extras w/sig hinges and YS 63- no failures
4 HOB T-6's w/ 25's for racing- no failures
2 Lanier Predators for racing- no failures
WM T-34
1/4 Extra w/ 3.2 gas
Morris Sledge
all with no failures. Some of these are speed planes for racing some are aerobatic and get some extreme rates and power so I think they get their share of stress.

Airgar, it seems we are at the opposite ends of the spectrum on this issue but based on your experience I don't blame you for switching to a differant hinge.

Rjbarthel, If it ain't broke don't fix it. Don't start trying to solve a problem that you don't even have yet, just keep an eye on your hinges and spend your building time on new projects.

RE: Have CA Hinges Ever failed on you? Vote!
 

BB, which ca hinge brand did you use in your bigger planes ?

RE: Have CA Hinges Ever failed on you? Vote!
 

Either Sig or the supplied Great Planes on the Extra.

RE: Have CA Hinges Ever failed on you? Vote!
 

BB, did you apply crayon on the hinge line ? How many drops of ca per side ?

How many flights have you had on your 1/4 scale ?