First plane. Can I skip a trainer?
 

I would finally like to try an airplane after flying helis for several months now, however I'm unsure if I could skip the trainer stage and go straight to a .40 sport scale arf.

The reason I ask is because I self taught myself how to fly helis, starting on a GPH46, with the aid of a simulator. I found that the simulator took me beyond the huge learning curve, and basically prepared me for the real thing. When I did my first hover, the heli reacted just like the sim, and I progressed very quickly from there on.

For the past month I've been flying airplanes on the simulator, and can land just about anything in difficult weather conditions consistently. From the trainers that just float to the ground to nose heavy taildraggers that require precise throttle control.

So, I'm wondering if I'll quickly outgrow a trainer, and maybe I should step up to something that would be considered a good 2nd or 3rd plane? If I go the trainer route, I'm thinking I'll go with the SIG LT40, however I like the Great Planes AT-6 Texan, and this looks like something that could take me a little farther. I don't want to sound like I'm being too confident, but the price difference between the two planes I mentioned is only $20 or so.

Any ideas or recommendations? Thanks.

First plane. Can I skip a trainer?
 

Nrgy,

I sent you an email with an offer to get together to help you decide what is the best route for you.

Cheers!

Galen

First plane. Can I skip a trainer?
 

Sounds like you've got a good grasp of it with the sim. Just make sure you fly for a bit with an instructor on a buddy box and I bet you'll be good to go!

Good luck!

First plane. Can I skip a trainer?
 

Sure you can,

Personally I would have rather started off with an Advance 40, from H9 instead of the high wing trainer I did learn on.

First plane. Can I skip a trainer?
 

nrgy:

Anything but a flat bottom wing and the AT-6. Try to find a plane
high or mid wing with a semi-symetrical airfoil. The AT-6 has bad
ground handling -- it's tricky for an experienced pilot. An Advance
40, 4 Star 40, WM Rambler 45 or their new Super Sport Senior or
the Tiger 2 would be in the class you probably could buddy box
with them.

Randy

First plane. Can I skip a trainer?
 

Thank you all for the advice. You've provided me with some encouraging comments. When I first started out on the sim with airplanes I had a very difficult time figuring out the orientation and flight characterisitcs. It actually took me longer to consistently land the airplane than it did to hover with the heli. But like the heli, I found that airplanes too have a large learning curve to overcome, much larger than I expected.

But I'll avoid the Texan, or any flat bottom wing as rreiss suggested. The one thing I noticed the sim doesn't do very well is replicate take offs. I assume this since it requires zero effort to take off. I basically just throttle up and yank back on the stick. From what I've been reading it sounds like take offs are more involved than this, and can be kinda tricky.

Anyhow, I have an good idea of what to look for now. Thanks again.

First plane. Can I skip a trainer?
 

nrgy,
Are you looking for an ARF or a kit? If you asked me to recommend a kit that could be your first plane, I would STRONGLY recommend a TF Contender. It builds very quickly and simply. And it has flight characteristics that rival many trainers AND aerobatic airplanes. I learned to fly on a Contender back in the 70's with the help of a very patient father. It will land at walking speeds, is very forgiving, almost unstallable, and very manuverable. It was, I'll submit, the fun fly genre prototype. You won't be sorry.

First plane. Can I skip a trainer?
 

I'd buy a trainer type (or Stik equivalent) just to have around. I've progress onto my 4th plane and every now and then it's nice to bring that trainer to the field just to putt around in the sky rather than burning holes through it or tumbing incontrollably... Also after you grow tired of it, it's a good start to do some kit bashing. A member in my club took his Avistar and put 4 servos in it's wing, and enlarged all the control surfaces. He's programmed the plane for crow and using a big 61FX up front, the thing is more aerobatic than an Ultra Stick! Another club member has a LT40 that has 3 servos in it's wing (flaps) and can literally stop in the air.

The best thing is that trainers become great beater planes. I've learned a great deal about plane construction and repair. And since they're a relatively cheap commodity, there isn't a huge emotional attachment, so I get to "play" around quite a bit with it. My Avistar currently has high rates set to over 150% recommended deflection and is almost as spritey as my low wing aerobatic model. I try new manuveurs on the Avistar before any other planes.

Since you're already somewhat familiar with flying, I'd recommend a trainer with a semi-symmetrical wing (Hobbico Avistar or World Models Worldstar), or maybe even a Stick Plane (such as GP's Big Stik, Hanger 9 Super or Ultra Sticks, or World Models Super Stunts) which would be an aerobatic step up from a high wing trainer type. While the LT40 is a great flying plane, it won't be as aerobatic as the ones I listed above due to it's flat bottom winged.

Enjoy!

plane
 

how bout a nice over-powered clipped wing cub and a world models chipmunk?
-Tinman-

First plane. Can I skip a trainer?
 

I would recommend the World Models T-34 Mentor. Very stabily yet agile, and very easy to land. Plus it is a great looking plane.

First plane. Can I skip a trainer?
 

The h9 Stick 60 I think would be a good "advanced" trainer

Trainers are a waste!
 

Skip the trainer for 3 reasons:

1) If you fly heli's you will probably be able to out fly most of the people on this board after your first gallon of fuel. And you'll be bored out of your mind.

2) Trainers don't automaticaly mean "easy to fly" the easiest planes to fly are "pattern type" with little dihedrel and moderate wing loading. There a little fast but you should be able to keep up with them.

3) This is the 21st century, and with it comes computer radios that have all sorts of expo, dual rates, mixes etc. to make most any model a ***** cat.

PS. Go for an ARF so your not too attatched when it crashes. Maybe a H9 Aresti, Zen 50 or the like.

First plane. Can I skip a trainer?
 

edh, those are expensive planes!! I do think the avistar is a nice plane, and can do some cool aerobatics. If you have someone that can do the buddy box with you, the sky is the limit. I'd go for a 4*40-60 or a Sig Somethin Extra. They land like trainers ,and can be really nasty on high rates. Good luck!...BTW, here's a pic of my SE to wet your taste buds



http://208.223.9.126\tmproff\pic1.jpg

No doubt!
 

Sure, with an instructor and a few quick lessons a heli pilot can rapidly pick up plank flying. I've taught a few "heli only" pilots without a problem.

Since you're a heli pilot, let me explain the only problem in familiar terms. The main thing to watch out for is minimum forward speed. Your heli will keep flying down to zero and even reverse, but planes don't appreciate that. Some planes with high wing loading will do sudden and drastic things when they run out of flying speed.

Imagine if you HAD to touch your heli down with a minimum of 10 mph forward speed. Get my point? It is an unatural experience for a heli pilot.

Be sure you explore slow speed flying at the edge of a stall before you leave the instructor behind.

First plane. Can I skip a trainer?
 

Ok, here's an update for everyone. I found a really good deal on a NIB Zen 50, and went ahead and purchased it for three reasons.

- I saw it mentioned here in this thread :)

- As I stated I bought it at a great price.

- I have a Saito FA-50 that I purchased years ago but never got around to installing it in a plane, so I thought I'd put it to use.

So, did I make the right move? I figured I might have to take things slower with this plane but I'm fairly patient when it comes to flying.

Will the FA-50 work fine with this plane? And lastly, what servos do you recommend I use? I'm thinking of possibly using JR 531s all around except for the retract servo. I guess another way of putting it is, in general, what torque is usually recommended for the different controls for a 40-50 size aircraft?

Thanks again!

First plane. Can I skip a trainer?
 

The Saito might be a little weak for your model. 40 sized planes should have between a 60-70 sized 4 stroke to pull them effectively, your 50 will fly it, but you probably will need to fly it on it's wings, since the motor won't be able to pull ya outta sticky situations.

First plane. Can I skip a trainer?
 

Hmm..you will want to get good at landing before you get off the buddy box..if you land in the rough with the gear down, be repared to do some fixin'.

Chris

First plane. Can I skip a trainer?
 

nrgy,
I, like you, taught myself how to fly by first practicing on the RealFlight Deluxe sim. After much practice, I assembled and successfully flew the H-9 Advance 40. I was well prepared by using the simulator and flew very well for the first flight. What I'm saying is that this a a good first plane for someone with your heli and sim experience. Also I feel that the WM Super Sport Senior would be even better as it is larger and looks like it will handle nicely as well as be able to perform most of the basic maneuvers that will keep you interested in flying this plane for awhile. True trainers get pretty boring very quickly for most folks with a little more than just basic skills.
I say, "Go for it!"

Sam

First plane. Can I skip a trainer?
 

superstunt 40, by World Models, I put a .61 super tiger on it and it flys GREAT That is my trainer plane.

First plane. Can I skip a trainer?
 

It doesn't have to be a trainer, but get something BIG!!! A larger .60 size Stik will fly far better than the typical .40 trainer. Not only that, you'll see it a lot better in the air, too. You can't control what you cannot see. That 60" wing may look big on the ground, but it doesn't need to fly far to turn into a squinty dot in the sky.

If price is a major consideration, go with the $99 WM SuperStunt 40. I can't say enough about this airplane. It is the most underappreciated ARF ever! At 66" wingspan and almost 900 sq.in. of wing area, it is as big as most .60 size Stik. Yet it is built very lightweight and .40 or .46 will easily power it. The 14 Oz/sq.in. wing loading is lighter than most so-called trainers. The symmetrical airfoil and moderate amount of dihedral will let you do just about all the aerobatics a beginner/intermediate pilot can handle.

I built my SuperStunt 40 with quad flaps and it will descend vertically in 15mph wind.

First plane. Can I skip a trainer?
 

I have a Great Planes .40 Big Stik as my first plane and I can fly it without a problem. With a whole lot of sim time this winter my instructor sent me off very quickly. I would recommend however, that you get a plane that (for the most part) does not have any bad traits like snapping, tip stalling, ground looping etc. Plus look for something with a low wing loading. Its easier on the wallet to go floating by rather than stalling at 10 feet and destroying the firewall.

First plane. Can I skip a trainer?
 

Sure you can skip the trainer stage. Particularly if you've got a simulator. I started on helis in March 2000 and got the CSM simulator at that point. I hadn't flown a plane in 10+ years but I decided I'd like to have another go, so I flew everything in the simulator and then went out and bought myself a Great Planes Dazzler. After flying the sim, it was dead easy to fly the real thing.....*heaps* easier than flying the heli :D

First plane. Can I skip a trainer?
 

Well I agree to start with a bigger plane ...

if you want to start with a scale sport plane ...

May I recommend a Decathlon ... like supertigre ARF as a 46 size with a 65 inch wing ... trainer like characteristics due to the high wing ... but capable of almost all aerobatics with a biger motor ...

or if you would like bigger and you like building ... THE CITABRIA PRO!

I thought it was a trainer ... but I totally love mine! a *****cat capable of the full range of anything you will want to do ... and yet easy to land ...

better still ... you may be the only one at the feild with one ... that in its self is worth it ...

I hate going to the feild and 8 guys are there and 7 of them all have the same plane?

why not be different ... and empress yourself and others as well ... it will make you real comfortable in landing for the first few times till you get the fever for sky borers ...

plus the bigger planes handle the wind better than smaller planes.

just my 2 cents worth ... check out some pictures of my planes ...

http://communities.msn.com/DDawgPoun...oto&PhotoID=79


and here too ...

http://communities.msn.com/DDawgPoun...nw?albumlist=2

I have a small collection ... :D

First plane. Can I skip a trainer?
 

I'm new to flying myself, purchasing the G2 sim in April and a Sig 4star with a .40 engine in May as my first plane. I just had my first solo flights last weekend. I've had a few flights on the buddy box and now 4 tanks solo (with a backseat instructor). I don't have heli experience nor as many hours on the sim as you seem to have.

Lot's of good input in this thread, I'm going to keep working with the sim and an instructor. (And thanks for the lesson that I may be jumping in too fast!)

First plane. Can I skip a trainer?
 

Yes, I agree. Lots of good input in this thread, thanks! Some of you may not have noticed since this thread is beginning to get fairly large, but I ended up purchasing the Tai Ji-40, I said Zen 50 earlier, my mistake. The quality of this ARF looks very good, unfortunately I just havn't had time to put it together these past couple weeks. I should have it together this weekend however, powered with a Saito FA-50. Someone said it might be a little underpowered, but we'll see how it goes.

Hopefully I'll get it in the air in a week or so, and if I end up crashing at least I won't have an emotional attachment to it since it's an ARF. But if this plane ends up being to tricky for me I'll try one of the many planes suggested on this thread. I'll let everyone know how it goes once I get this bird in the air.

Jeff