RE: ARF Quality Experiment
 

Gp patty was a great kit for me as far as fit and finish.
Hanger 9 Edge 540 was also very good.
Vector Flight 300 extra is the best by far to date, service is unbelievably good.
Graupner 300 was very good.
Worst? I built three Thunder tiger trainer 60's when I started, all three were crap IMO and all three died in a dive because there was so much flex in the elevator push rod.
No, I didn't crash all three. :)

RE: ARF Quality Experiment
 

Best: Aeroworks 60/90 edge
Great Planes U-can-do .46 {awesome} good price too
Great Planes Shoestring {beautiful airplane}


Worst: Hangar 9 Funtana {bad wood quality} wasn't happy with flight performance.


the next one i will buy is a World Model Super Chipmunk or the P-82

RE: ARF Quality Experiment
 

I second the customer service from Vector Flight.

Vector Flight has the BEST customer service I have encountered from any company I have had dealings with.

I can guarantee Vector Flight more bussiness from me. I cannot say enough good things about their customer support.

Their airplanes are great too, good quality wood, strong construction and real good flight performance.

If you haven't checked them out yet you really should.

http://www.vectorflight.com

RE: ARF Quality Experiment
 

All of the scale arfs seem to need help, usually something in the primary structure, landing gear, top wing coming off, engine ripping out or other catostrophic structural failure. All of the big 3 are guilty of this. What suprises me is that nobodys been killed yet as a result (GP PITTS). Yes I know it's s. o. p. to beef up and sometimes re-engineer these 10-20lbs, 100 mph projectiles but some of the times the structural weaknesses are hidden and only come to light after the falure (KMP). Best- World models, T-34, GS P-51, F-82, Happy fly, P-51. H9- Cap. Worst- This is easy, KMP. I've been building arfs for about 30 years.

RE: ARF Quality Experiment
 

Super best: Cermark Pitts S2B, Sig Extra 300xs
Good VF Sukhoi, Modeltech piper cub (.25 size)

bad Giant Scale Models Sukhoi (too damn tail heavy)
worst Goldberg Extreme 330 (warped)

RE: ARF Quality Experiment
 

I have put together about 10 arfs since I started flying about a year ago. I never have had a really bad arf. Only some covering problems, but that's expected.

The ones I really did like, are:

1. Hobbico Avistar
2. Great Planes Super Sportster
3. Goldberge Extreme 330
4. H9 Cessna .40 sized
5. Thunder Tiger Stick .40

P.S. My goldberg wasn't warped

I don't think I see as many building flaws as some, because I generally use close to the recommended engine size. I've heard people getting mad cause they put their H9 ultra stick .60 into a speed dive with their 4-stroke 1.20, and they get upset when the tail feathers come off, then call the arf, cheap. I don't think that's fair.

RE: ARF Quality Experiment
 

Some of us may use the term "throw down plane" too literally :D I am currently putting together my 4th in a line of "experiments" :). The 1st was lost in a mid-air, the 2nd went down due to stupidity [:@] and the 3rd went down dramatically with an elevator servor failure [X(] after only 4 flights. Hopefully, the 4th will last longer than a week :D

RE: ARF Quality Experiment
 

Approx 10 years experience.........

BEST = Any VECTOR FLIGHT :D:D:D:D

WORST = Great Planes Spitfire 40 size (the one with the plastic skin) [:'(][:'(][:'(][:'(]

RE: ARF Quality Experiment
 

Jim, I feel the pain. Been there a few times myself, but I keep getting back on the horse. I have a good friend who really is a master builder. He does a beautiful job. Last year he had a new B-25 that was just awesome. Details out the Kazoo. Fiberglass finish with wood and foam construction. Used automotive paint to put a beautiful finish on this beauty. On about the third, or fourth flight he lost an engine on take off. You know the rest of this story. This beautiful B-25 rolled over on her back and went in. Total loss. He loves B-25's and has two completed with two on the bench. He had put about 1600 hours in the one he lost. After he lost the newest one he got out another kit and started immediately. This really motivated me when I lost my original Pitts, and this was just an ARF. I still felt sick inside. This was no throw down, it was my pride and joy, but the new one is even better. Like my friend says, each time I have had to get up and do it again I learn something new and the models just keep getting better. Love this attitude.

RE: ARF Quality Experiment
 

I agree with what I've seen a few times in this post and that is "there really isn't a super crappy ARF" (course I ain't gonna buy no damn VMAR either):

I've been flying after a thirteen year break for almost a year and here are the ones I've assembled from best to 'least best':
Hangar 9 Ultra Stick Lite 120 - anyone with a half brain can build this one. Great instruction booklet
Hobbico Avistar Select - RTF so doesn't qualify but was well... ready to fly..... and flew pretty well.
Great Planes Big Stick 60 - Too bad I put a 1.08 in it and configured it like an Ultra Stick 60 (massive structural failure, no fault of GP). Another good instruction booklet.
Goldberg Extreme 330 - Funest plane of em all to fly and not too tough to build, ahem... excuse me....assemble. Crappy instruction booklet.
Phoenix Sonic Low Wing 25 - Tough as a tank though made in Viet Frikin Nam. Crappy instructions

Next project.
Combat SPAD type planes and a Sig Extra 300XS (Looks awesome). I like what I've seen from the Sigs hanging in my LHS. Too bad the Kadet's the ugliest plane ever designed.:D

RE: ARF Quality Experiment
 

Best I have assembled is Dave Patrick. Utlmiate 40.

Worst was Thunder Tiger. Still an okay plane though. Champion 45L.

In reply to the Hobbico Ultimate 40 disgust. I admit it was not built like ARF's are today, but for the time it was reasonable. In anycase I flew 1 for 4 years at nearly 2 gallons a week with a ST60 on a tuned pipe. It was hands down 1 of the best flying planes I have ever had. I have also never had so much fun with a plane until my DP Ultimate 40 that I got last year. I will admit though it was a bit tough to repair when necessary. My wings never came off, despite frequent WOT flybys following a nice long dive.

RE: ARF Quality Experiment
 

We're talking manufacturers here.. not necessarily planes.

Worst: VMAR, Lanier - Won't ever buy one of these again, not for any reason.

So-So - Watt-Age , not impressed one bit, most (not all) of them are underpowered and built like crap..

Pretty good - SIG, Great Planes, H9 some are really good, others have been riddled with problems. Nearly all required hours of
heat gun and sealing iron to shrink covering. Inconsistency seams to rule here. For examply - my GP venus and slow poke were awesome, but the Lanceair and Patty had lots of issues. The H9 P-51 was a POS to assemble, but once together is the best flying warbird... almost not worth the BS though.... Great Planes and H9 have excellent customer service though...


Excellent - Top-Flite, Composite-Arf, Kangke, Wild Hare . I'd say the large scale H9 stuff looks really good on the same level as well. Built as well as anything I could build. Covering jobs were flawless. Customer service is the best in the business.. especially Kangke.

Once you have experienced what "excellent" is like with the latter group, you will know why I put GP and H9 as only pretty good. If you don't do large scale, then pretty good is as good as it gets !

DP

RE: RE: ARF Quality Experiment
 

loved all of my Arf's so far :)
H9 Matt Chapman Cap 232 (snap happy SOB, but went together well)
Sig Extra 300xs
Aerojet Models Whiplash
GSP Staudacher GS300 90" version (precovered version.. great looking covering job)

RE: RE: ARF Quality Experiment
 

Best: Any WM kit. I've built 4 of them, CAP232, Ramber 30, ZEN50 and they have all been a breeze and as long as you follow the recommended engine size, is a sweet flying machine. Even the engine mounts go on without ado... blind nuts installed for it and all. Only one that was a little more challenging was the WM Cub .26 because you have to drill your own engine mount mounting holes (oooo.. hard work), windows weren't a perfect fit and it was just so small that I had a hard time working on the insides... but once again.. as sweet plane once its together

Worst?: CMP (Chief) Cessna Skylane - the fiberglass fuse was so imprecise that there was at least 2mm gap between the stab and the fuse.

RE: RE: ARF Quality Experiment
 

Absolutely the best - DP 120 Ultimate
Very good - H9 PT19, 100" Cub, GP UCD3D, .60 P51, GSP Katana, Goldberg Tiger 2

Never Again - SIG Sukhoi, turned out OK but for the time I spent fixing and modifying I could have kit built the thing.

RE: RE: ARF Quality Experiment
 

Worse by FARRRRRRRRRR: Vmar Vstick

Best: Hmmmm........................GP 202 or 300 too tough to choose.

Honorable mention: Sig Somethin Extra and LT 40

FWIW: Any Vmar plane would make a GREAT wrapper for a gift card to LHS for A REAL ARF!!!!

GP quality is first rate. Sig is a little on the pricey side.

RE: RE: ARF Quality Experiment
 

Worse : GSP Birdog & V-Mar - Pilatus PC9

Best : Great Planes Christen Eagle & Goldberg Decathlon

RE: RE: ARF Quality Experiment
 

Arfs are like women the worst one I ever had was simply wonderful!





LONNIE

RE: ARF Quality Experiment
 

The hobbico avistar is really good except for some loose covering problems. HEat gun fixes it in 3 to 5 minutes.

RE: ARF Quality Experiment
 

OK...
GEISTY is still harping over the CERMARK SUKHOI... YUP.. they USED to be C_R_A_P!!! I built one recently. I would say it is the best quality ARF I have built to date...
let me share my experiances... worste to best....
Aeroworks Edge 540 (90 size). ARF was actually OK, BUT fragile!!! and AW did not stand behind his employees when they told me it was OK with a YS 140!!!.. and it was not!!!! EGG SHELL AIRFRAME!!!
GSP Sukhoi..... (120 size) cheesy glass... not epoxy, looked good, flew good.
GSP Giles 202.... flew great, built OK, C_R_A_P for covering... "S_H_I_T_Coat"
Chief Aircraft (GSP too) KATANA... Not as nice a finish as the CERMARK SUKHOI, but a little bigger, 3D's a little better, a bit of pitch and roll coupling with rudder....
CERMARK SUKHOI... Extremely well built... flies great...
http://www.radiocontrolzone.com/foru...hreadid=156553

(I am NOT sponsored by anyone!!! LOL)

RE: ARF Quality Experiment
 

Best for me would have to be
1. World Models
2. Vector Flight

Worst
Vmar

RE: RE: ARF Quality Experiment
 

My exposure is pretty limited, but

RCM Trainer 40 (Global) - good build, cheap hardware but it held up tremendously. One wing panel was warped but was easily corrected.

Big Stik 40 (Great Planes) - Appeared to use hot melt glue throughout Firewall pulled loose on one side that had not been glued at all. One wing panel was much heavier that it's mate. Had to add over an oz of lead to the tip for balance. Flies great. Would own another. Lost in a mid-air when a Hobbico Superstar Select pulled up from below to do a loop and clipped a wing panel, shearing my wing bolts. The Superstar landed unscratched! That must say something for Hobbico.

SK-50 (Kangke) - Oracote covering job was first rate. Good construction. Solid and light. Cowling appeared too flimsy for my comfort, so I added a layer of epoxy/coffee-filter laminate to the inside. Very well executed design and complete package.

Second-hand observations. Two Ultra Sticks (Horizon) at our club have had control rod failures - one catastrophic, the other found due to autopsy of the first. Superstars and Avistars appear to be well built and durable.

My biggest complaint with the small, sporter ARFs is the metric (and usually IMHO undersized) fasteners and linkages.

RE: RE: ARF Quality Experiment
 

WORST VMAR 540 Edge (Flying Brick)
BEST Great Planes Shoestring

Sportsman aviation WACO 60
Superflying Models Eindecker
KMP GEE BEE R2
GP DR 1 Fakker
Other then the VMAR I really am happy with all. Just like all arfs I modified a few areas (Landing gear area) and changed some hardware. I go into it thinking I have to do some work.

RE: ARF Quality Experiment
 

In reply to your post regarding who made your little Cap, if it's a .30 size, it's probably Yellow Aircraft.

Mike M

RE: ARF Quality Experiment
 

Best:
Great Planes Wagstaff and Christen Eagle


Middle:
Sigs Cap
Direct Connection Ultam 120 (ARC)
Model Tech Dragon Lady (ARC)

Worst:
Model Tech Great Lakes Bip (ARC)
SIGS Extra