RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

YS 110: 27.4 oz with muffler and muffler extension
YS 140: 33.2 oz with muffer and muffler extension

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

Richard - I can't say a word about the YS-110 as I haven't flown it. The Saito 1.80 I have will turn a 17-8 APC at 10,600 on coolpower 30% Heli Fuel. Saito's just love that heli fuel.

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

Thanks Richard-

In a previous post you said that the Saito 1.80 would really eat up the fuel compared to the YS options. Are we talking huge difference in consumption as in needing a bigger tank than supplied or just somewhat noticably faster fuel use, but manageable?

Also are most of you going to use the supplied tank? I've had some bad leaks using ARF tanks before because they split down the seam at the neck of the tank (due to pressure from the muffler I suppose), spilling fuel all in the plane fuse.

Hey HighSierra, how did the retract setup perform?? The plane looks awesome and the flying site is :D:D:D

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

The YS 110 has a pretty good fuel consumption rate. I can usually get 12 minutes out of a 14 oz tank at mostly full throttle. The YS 140 drinks between 2 and 2.5 oz per minute. I'm not sure about the fuel consumption rate for the Saito 180.

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

The 180 sucks down fuel pretty fast too, especially when wide open...probably at about the same rate as the 140 if not a little higher.....I've always been fine with a 20 - 22 oz tank with my 180's with 12 minute planned run time and about a minute reserve at wide open... (but with the Funtana i'm only using a 16oz with over 12 minutes run time and probably over 4 ozs still in the tank..bet you can guess how much throttle it takes to just fly that plane:D)

I used the stock tank, but probably would get a larger one for the 140 or 180 to drink from.... Also, my stock tank took the YS pressure no problem...I did wrap it in that fiber-filament packaging tape just to make sure... Back whe I had A Raptor, the TT tanks that came with them where pretty strong too, and never had troubles.

My retracts worked flawlessly, I'll probably glue in the plastic wells now and get some of those gear door mounts for the robostruts..

Richard or anyone else, Ya got any other ways to mount the gear doors to Robostrus or just buy the little brackets from Robart?

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

Congratulations Highserria and thanks for the feedback.

Well I got back home yesterday and I'm looking forward to my maiden on the weekend.

In ref. to balance, w/ my OS-1.60 FX, Brisson Pitts style Muffler, fixed tail wheel, pnuematic retracts, I had no nose weight and came in at 11#-5 oz.

I ended up using Sierra Giant Scale 85 degr. retracts w/ 660- Robo-sturts - 3-1/2" Skylite Sullivan tires.

BTW as a comparrison, the OS-1.60 FX (w/o muffler) weighs in at 33 oz.

BR

RE: pressurized fuel tanks
 

check out what central hobbies sells - tetra tanks. they are especially designed for YS presurized systems as they have a metal clamp that fits around the rubber cap. it won't pop.

they sell various sizes for about 12 bucks each...


http://centralhobbies.com/Fuel/Fueltnk.html

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

don,

i hope they start looking into aerodynamic mods. that's something that has always taken a back seat because they are burning up most of their budget on insurance & cylinders. with a little more aerodynamics work, they'll smoke dago with ease (sticking my neck out here - heh heh heh).


what was the first place check for? i know that it was $150k back in 2002.

i'll look for you next year if you hang around the cave on sunday.

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

high_sierra,


how does it handle on landings?

is it a floater at 11 1/3 lbs?

or too earely to tell cuz you're playin it safe?

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

I just greased it in nice and hot to play it safe, so I can't say for certain. I did ditch the springs on the tail wheel and setup a solid pull-pull so it wouldn't be so squirly on the ground.

I ment to put this up earlier as an idea for how to route the exhaust..Worked good for me.

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

I'm usually at the Cave, or at the pit position, 5 or 6 times a day during the races. I go to the Bear Fansponsor BBQ at the Cave on Friday, also. I even won a door prize this year (Rare Bear wind sock). Sharon really wanted one and my wife said if she won, she'd give hers to Sharon. But, unfortunately for Sharon, my wife wouldn't give mine up.:)

I heard something like $165K for first place...I can't remember who told me that but it's probably pretty close. I'm hoping the Bear Team can rustle up a few more sponsors (they just had to prove they were still competitive) so they can start working on the airfoil mods and aerodynamic clean up work. If they can get it done, the Dago Team can fugedaboutit (neener neener neener! LOL)

I can't wait a year, but I guess I have to...see you next time!

Don

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

Nice setup...you're giving me some ideas. Thanks!

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

Looking good. How come you decided to have the main wheels face in instead of out like the full size? Is the wing too thin to house the offset fork on the strut?

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

i prolly saw you this time, just didn't make the connection - as i hung around the cave quite a bit on sat & sun.

it was funny when everyone was out on the flightline and bear was in it's cave pumping in the n2o... dago sent two girls on over to see what the heck was going on. turns out they never needed the oxidizer boost :))

yeah, i hope they can pick up a $$ sponsor. too bad american (john works for them i believe??) won't help out - maybe john being an american airlines pilot is still too far down on the totem pole. i work for boeing, but i'm way way way down on the totem pole.


could you imagine if they had some bucks like dago? a good thing to do would to digitize the planes surface in 3-d and then computer model the aerodynamics using all these hi-tek software tools out now. i bet there's a few dozen hot spots of turbulence - especiallty at the wingtips.

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

Is anyone powering this bird with the recommended size engine? I plan to use an OS .91 FX and now you all have me wondering if it will even fly this bird.... So inquiring minds are interested in opinons. BTW I will be using a 14X7 master airscrew 3 blade.

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

OS .91FX is too light, and MA 14x7 3-blade is too big of a prop for that engine. BTW, 14x7 3-blade is more suitable for a 120 four stroke.

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

Thr instructions for the OS .91 Specifically state in prop sizes that the 14X7 3 blade is a suitable prop size. As to the engine being too light is this really a concern as I tend to use spinner weights under the spinner to counter ballance and plan a 1800 MA battery in the box.

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

Believe me, you do not want to load up the engine too much. A .91 four stroke can't even swing a 14x7 3-blade. How do you expect a .91 two stroke to be able to swing it? You can always try it to see what kind of rpm you get. If it's below 11K, then the prop is too big.

propeller matching to engine torque
 

you can download this free software to make propeller calculations that are matched up with your engine spec...


http://freespace.virgin.net/barry.ho...e/goodies.html

you need to know your engines horsepower rating and rated RPM at that horsepower

(example, a YS110 is roughly rated at 2.2 HP at around 9300rpm)

so you enter the prop pitch and diameter, kind (APC for example), and number of blades into the calculator
then enter the RPM...

move the RPM figure around until you match the engine horsepower.

then decide how to modify the propeller size and repeat.



it does get you into the proper ballpark to match the prop with engine torque.

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

Thanx Bear, Almost all of my other engines are 4 -strokes This kit called for a .91 as the top end so that is what I bought. I have had one other Thunder tiger ARF and was completely discussed with its quality and performance. This Kit seemed to be a depatrure from their past practices so that is why I thought I would give TT another chance. My major concern was OVER powering this bird which is why I opted for TT's requirements. I am now wondering if this bird will even fly on thier recommendation.

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

i have a thunder tiger staudacher 60 sized kit that i just recently completed.

so just because i'm going to buy the thunder tiger rare bear doesn't mean that i am a thunder tiger loyalist. i just happen to like the outward appearance of the kits.


the staudacher needed quite a bit of reinforcement between the firewall, fusalage, and landing gear. i added about 6-8 oz of wood support. in fact, the firewall could have been pulled out of the fusalage with a few pounds of pulling force. i power this bird with a YS110 and it's been fine. had i not added reinforcement, the engine would have flew out of the firewall on first takeoff! it weights 8 1/2 pounds and the 110's a good match. with a 16x6, it has unlimited vertical and can pull out of a tailslide with authority.


anyway, i'll be looking at the rare bear kit closely - maybe you're right, that it is a departure (a turn up) in terms of quality.


as long as the wing loading doesn't get too high and you take the nessessary steps to make sure the firewall to fusalage is strong, a YS140 seems perfect for an 11-12 pound airplane such as this.i'd think the 110 would work out well too. i'm partial to 4 strokes because i happen to love the sound and it seems more realistic than a 2-stroker.

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

I ordered a Saito 1.80 today so I will be looking to reinforce the entire plane where needed. How about some tri-stock and fiberglassing at the firewall/fuse interface? Also epoxy everywhere the wood internal skeleton meets the fuse? Just not too much to add too much weight..and some reinforcement at the retract mounts..other than that what else?

As far as the Saito 1.80 goes I am hoping to mount it entirely (except muffler) in the cowl using the kit provided mount and predrilled holes or inverted if a cutout for the head is required. I just don't like inverted though cause it seems to be a hassle...I guess I'll just have to wait and see how it fits.

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

Race time.

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

Post Race Time :D

Between the first one and the last three...what a difference a year makes...brrrr.

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

Hello,
Ive just read all 15 pages of this posting with great interest since I have been extremly interested in this plane after seeing add for it. I too had concern about it being made by Thunder Tiger since I have not been impressed by their products in the past. Glad to hear that maybe quality issues are being addressed. Though landing gear blocks seem to be an issue. Also fuel tank mounting.

Things I would have liked to have seen are: BIGGER, BIGGER, BIGGER. 60" is not big enough to satisfy me. Would have preffered something in the 75" range. Maybe even 90". Also something that bugs me is, NO FLAPS, this plane crys out for flaps. If I were to buy this plane I would have to modify wings for flaps. No easy job.

Also, I have recently started running gas engines in my new planes. I find them to be so much nicer than glow engines to deal with.
I would prefer to run a gas engine in this bird but feel it is probably not big enough for even a small one, such as FPE's 2.4 and to big for a 1.3. Though now that i think about it, may be perfect for a 1.3.

Still have not ruled this bird out of my stable however, so I have these questions.
1: You guys who have flown yours. What about flaps, do you think this plane would benifit from them? Or are they more trouble than
they are worth.
2: Do you think a small gas engine would be suitable for this plane. Such as FPE's 1.3?
3: Why are you all insisting on running the 3-blade prop? 2-blades are much more efficent. Is it because of ground clearence issues?
or just because 3 blade spinner comes with plane and it looks cool? (I like cool too)

Well I look forward to your replies.
Craig

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

get a T/F mustang, build a Dago Red.

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

Find an old T/F Bearcat, build your own Rare Bear.
Modify a Royal Bearcat...heheheh

or go here: http://www.precisioncutkits.com/instock.html they have an 80" Bates and 86" Ziroli Bearcat kit in stock, ready to be mailed to you

BTW: The real Bear doesn't have flaps.

Don

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

As said above, the full size Rare Bear doesn't have flaps.

RCS 140 or Roto 25 would be more suitable.

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

Wing loading on this plane is going to be high compared to what I am used to and that is a concern of mine. They recommend a .91 for it but (I am guessing here) the plane is going to fly like a scale warbird with that engine, along with the inherent problems that warbirds have. I am powering mine with a OS 1.60 (not that I am recommending that engine) because of the balance issues and the fact that I am looking for speed. I am hoping for 120 mph but willing to settle for 100 ;) If you have to add weight to the front of the plane, it might as well be engine. (My opinion only)

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

cstevec,

I could not have said it any better or agree more.

I will be flying my 1.60 powered RB tomorrow and will advise of outcome.[8D]

BTW, I will post a pic of where I mounted the FX needle valve as it worked out well.

I have NO balancing weight in my RB as the engine and muffler offset the need as you have stated so well.;)

BR

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

vampire,

please report on landing characteristics (floater, bullet, rock, etc)

thanks!

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

don & co...

here are some more pix from the reno races...

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/black_...=/2c66&.src=ph

enjoy :)

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

HighSierra
Congratulations looks great glad all went well.

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

Good luck with the maiden flight Vampire..
I've been following your build and review from the start and am anxious to see how you make out. I've had my RB sitting in it's unopened box since early August. I'll be building it over the winter.
I'm a 2 stroke guy generally myself but also considering a four stroke for the first time. I decided that I would wait until your test flight.
I think that the 1.60 will be a ton of power in this frame.


][)ep][)og

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

Vampire...Howd it go..:) ...Howd it go...! i've been prowling round this thread for some months now...waiting ...:).. "Rare Bear" turned out to be even Rarer in this country ..but, got one ;).... looks Fantstic. Hope everthigs gone O.K.;)....loadsa questions ....:)

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

Kerry, how's the 1.60 FX Bear fly?

Don

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

Oh...:)...Anyone got the wing area for this Bear...?

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

Just received the missing parts needed for my rudder. But the control horn collar is much bigger than the control rod for the rudder. I'll have to put a different bushing in it. Anyone else have this prob, or did TT send the wrong size?

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

Hi Fellas:

I finally got the RB to field on Saturday and here is how it went.

I did the engine brake-in at home as per mfg. recommendations. The O.S. FX 1.60 fired up and ran beautifully for the entire flight, no overheating problems.

The RB responds well to rudder input during taxi but on grass the tail wheel is very light and often of the ground. Despite this, the ground handling is solid.

Lined up on the runway and advanced the throttle and with little rudder input is was straight as an arrow and with very little elevator input, it jumped off the ground and headed up at about 35 degrees, with approx. 50% power.

Pulled the gear up and input down trim and all was good. The Bare was doing and est. 75-85 mph at 50% power. :D

One or 2 clicks of right aileron, 0 on the rudder and we where trimmed. The best way to describe the flight of the Bare is smooooooth.

Ok, we setup for the landing and put the gear down and I noticed a very small amount of drag due to the gear which required a very very small amount of up trim compensation, made my approach and landed. This is where a bit of disappointment set-in. Both main gear mounts turned out of the wing like there was nothing holding them in, [:@] despite my re-inforcement with 3/8 in. triangle stock on each rib. Well, that did not distract from the fact that this airplane is an EXCELLENT and very smooth, predictable flying airplane. Been here before !

Upon further investigation, the light ply (Luann ) gear mounting plates had broken between the rib bays where there is no reinforcement. The fix - fabricated NEW 7 ply BIRCH plates and installed solid balsa blocking between all ribs, front and back to insure a maximum gluing surface for the new Birch ply gear plates.

I went back to the field on Sunday and performed the 2nd test flight and everything went to perfection and I opened the power up to 60-65% and this thing was FAST. With heavy overcast sky's, I will wait for a clear day to open it up to the full wrath of the 1.60 (3.7 HP ).

Final conclusions:
1. LOVE the 1.60 power and performance in consideration that with this engine and the Brisson Pitts muf, NO additional ballast was needed for balance. The 2 fellow modelers who held the Bare during run-up where totally in disbelief of the power the 1.60 FX was making.

Even with this avail. power, the built-in down and right thrust is near perfect. I found this to be true in my GP-GB-R2 as well.

2. This airplane slows down VERY well and I see no reason to install flaps. My 2nd flight landing roll out was less than 30 feet ! I fly from a 480' lg. grass strip with 8 foot high corn on 2 of the 3 sides! The one thing I did notice is that the very large Aluminum spinner does produce a flywheel affect on the engine and takes a bit longer to come to your throttle setting. This is not a big deal but plan for this on your landing.

3. Flight control settings where: Elevator 1/2 in. U/D, Ailerons, 7/16 in. U/D, Rudder - per Mfg.

4. Final aircraft weight: 11 lb-5 oz.

5. Retracts used, Sierra Giant Scale offered for the RB. (85 Degr. ) w/ 660 Robo-struts - (straight - leg w/ Sullivan 3-1/2 in. Skylight wheels.)

6. Prop: Master Air Screw - 16 x 8 / 3 Bld.

7. Fuel: 10% Byron Sport.

8. Glow plug: O.S. No. 8

I'm looking forward to a clear day to open this thing up. I would highly recommend the RB to anyone looking for a sleek, smooth flying, totally predictable airplane however, you may not want to go with the power I choose.

Best Regards:

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

Sheesh, flight sounds awesome, but, it ain't over till she's on the ground. Second flight report and both have had gear failure, Gentlemen we have a problem. Gotta learn to wait on these new releases until many others have gone tru the experimental flights! Don't these manufacturers test these things before they throw them onto the unsuspecting masses? I think Thunder Tiger needs to redesign and replace all existing kits right now. I admire all the modifications you have done Vampire, but at the price of this ship we shouldn't have to do that. Let's see how TT responds, I'm sure they'll be getting alot of these ships back. Too bad, I loves me some Bear.