RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

get a T/F mustang, build a Dago Red.

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

Find an old T/F Bearcat, build your own Rare Bear.
Modify a Royal Bearcat...heheheh

or go here: http://www.precisioncutkits.com/instock.html they have an 80" Bates and 86" Ziroli Bearcat kit in stock, ready to be mailed to you

BTW: The real Bear doesn't have flaps.

Don

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

As said above, the full size Rare Bear doesn't have flaps.

RCS 140 or Roto 25 would be more suitable.

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

Wing loading on this plane is going to be high compared to what I am used to and that is a concern of mine. They recommend a .91 for it but (I am guessing here) the plane is going to fly like a scale warbird with that engine, along with the inherent problems that warbirds have. I am powering mine with a OS 1.60 (not that I am recommending that engine) because of the balance issues and the fact that I am looking for speed. I am hoping for 120 mph but willing to settle for 100 ;) If you have to add weight to the front of the plane, it might as well be engine. (My opinion only)

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

cstevec,

I could not have said it any better or agree more.

I will be flying my 1.60 powered RB tomorrow and will advise of outcome.[8D]

BTW, I will post a pic of where I mounted the FX needle valve as it worked out well.

I have NO balancing weight in my RB as the engine and muffler offset the need as you have stated so well.;)

BR

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

vampire,

please report on landing characteristics (floater, bullet, rock, etc)

thanks!

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

don & co...

here are some more pix from the reno races...

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/black_...=/2c66&.src=ph

enjoy :)

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

HighSierra
Congratulations looks great glad all went well.

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

Good luck with the maiden flight Vampire..
I've been following your build and review from the start and am anxious to see how you make out. I've had my RB sitting in it's unopened box since early August. I'll be building it over the winter.
I'm a 2 stroke guy generally myself but also considering a four stroke for the first time. I decided that I would wait until your test flight.
I think that the 1.60 will be a ton of power in this frame.


][)ep][)og

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

Vampire...Howd it go..:) ...Howd it go...! i've been prowling round this thread for some months now...waiting ...:).. "Rare Bear" turned out to be even Rarer in this country ..but, got one ;).... looks Fantstic. Hope everthigs gone O.K.;)....loadsa questions ....:)

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

Kerry, how's the 1.60 FX Bear fly?

Don

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

Oh...:)...Anyone got the wing area for this Bear...?

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

Just received the missing parts needed for my rudder. But the control horn collar is much bigger than the control rod for the rudder. I'll have to put a different bushing in it. Anyone else have this prob, or did TT send the wrong size?

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

Hi Fellas:

I finally got the RB to field on Saturday and here is how it went.

I did the engine brake-in at home as per mfg. recommendations. The O.S. FX 1.60 fired up and ran beautifully for the entire flight, no overheating problems.

The RB responds well to rudder input during taxi but on grass the tail wheel is very light and often of the ground. Despite this, the ground handling is solid.

Lined up on the runway and advanced the throttle and with little rudder input is was straight as an arrow and with very little elevator input, it jumped off the ground and headed up at about 35 degrees, with approx. 50% power.

Pulled the gear up and input down trim and all was good. The Bare was doing and est. 75-85 mph at 50% power. :D

One or 2 clicks of right aileron, 0 on the rudder and we where trimmed. The best way to describe the flight of the Bare is smooooooth.

Ok, we setup for the landing and put the gear down and I noticed a very small amount of drag due to the gear which required a very very small amount of up trim compensation, made my approach and landed. This is where a bit of disappointment set-in. Both main gear mounts turned out of the wing like there was nothing holding them in, [:@] despite my re-inforcement with 3/8 in. triangle stock on each rib. Well, that did not distract from the fact that this airplane is an EXCELLENT and very smooth, predictable flying airplane. Been here before !

Upon further investigation, the light ply (Luann ) gear mounting plates had broken between the rib bays where there is no reinforcement. The fix - fabricated NEW 7 ply BIRCH plates and installed solid balsa blocking between all ribs, front and back to insure a maximum gluing surface for the new Birch ply gear plates.

I went back to the field on Sunday and performed the 2nd test flight and everything went to perfection and I opened the power up to 60-65% and this thing was FAST. With heavy overcast sky's, I will wait for a clear day to open it up to the full wrath of the 1.60 (3.7 HP ).

Final conclusions:
1. LOVE the 1.60 power and performance in consideration that with this engine and the Brisson Pitts muf, NO additional ballast was needed for balance. The 2 fellow modelers who held the Bare during run-up where totally in disbelief of the power the 1.60 FX was making.

Even with this avail. power, the built-in down and right thrust is near perfect. I found this to be true in my GP-GB-R2 as well.

2. This airplane slows down VERY well and I see no reason to install flaps. My 2nd flight landing roll out was less than 30 feet ! I fly from a 480' lg. grass strip with 8 foot high corn on 2 of the 3 sides! The one thing I did notice is that the very large Aluminum spinner does produce a flywheel affect on the engine and takes a bit longer to come to your throttle setting. This is not a big deal but plan for this on your landing.

3. Flight control settings where: Elevator 1/2 in. U/D, Ailerons, 7/16 in. U/D, Rudder - per Mfg.

4. Final aircraft weight: 11 lb-5 oz.

5. Retracts used, Sierra Giant Scale offered for the RB. (85 Degr. ) w/ 660 Robo-struts - (straight - leg w/ Sullivan 3-1/2 in. Skylight wheels.)

6. Prop: Master Air Screw - 16 x 8 / 3 Bld.

7. Fuel: 10% Byron Sport.

8. Glow plug: O.S. No. 8

I'm looking forward to a clear day to open this thing up. I would highly recommend the RB to anyone looking for a sleek, smooth flying, totally predictable airplane however, you may not want to go with the power I choose.

Best Regards:

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

Sheesh, flight sounds awesome, but, it ain't over till she's on the ground. Second flight report and both have had gear failure, Gentlemen we have a problem. Gotta learn to wait on these new releases until many others have gone tru the experimental flights! Don't these manufacturers test these things before they throw them onto the unsuspecting masses? I think Thunder Tiger needs to redesign and replace all existing kits right now. I admire all the modifications you have done Vampire, but at the price of this ship we shouldn't have to do that. Let's see how TT responds, I'm sure they'll be getting alot of these ships back. Too bad, I loves me some Bear.

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

Vampire,

Glad to hear your Bear rocks! I was kinda worried about the landing gear blocks, hope you didn't get any significant damage to the wing other then the obvious. My house repairs should be done this week so I will get to start on mine next week hopefully. I will incorporate the mods to the landing gear you indicated. The plane is much too nice looking to lose to weak construction.

Do you think 120 is possible with that engine prop combination? That friend of mine had his little Toni out at the field yesterday and was crowing about how fast it was. I'm just itching to dust him off!

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

Way to go Vampire!! Thank goodness those who have had LG probs where flying off grass so damage had to be minimial. Also, sounds like your overall weight came out really nice! How much lead dod you need to get it ballanced and where did you balance it at??

I'm with you on the flaps.... Why put flaps on it when the real Bear doesn't have them (i thought we where going for scale!)?!

Richard... I just realized that I had the retracts on with the forks facing the wrong way.... I think I was looking at too many pictures of real mustangs and the such when I was installing them ( I even looked at several real Bearcats, but I guess I wasn't thinking:eek: I think it will be no problem (space wise) fliping them around so they are just like the real deal (I'll probably do that when the gear door brackets arrive).

Well, after several days of Wedding and Best Man duties, I can finally get back to tinkering with my Bear.. I've got a YS 110 that a buddy is letting me borrow to see how the Bear flies with it, so I plan several flights tomorrow with it to see of that's what I should get to replace my YS 91.....but being the same weight as the 91, I 've got a hunch that it's going to be the YS 140 tha I buy for the Bear (i've got to get rid of some of that lead with engine weight instead!).

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

cstevec,

Because the Bare lands so slowly, the damage incurred when the gear did rotate out was at very minimal speed and only superficial to the covering.

120 mph is VERY possible with the 1.60 FX.

BTW, the gear block additions can be done with only minor removal of wing skin. Then remove the existing gear plates and go from there. Took me about 2 hours to perform these mods.

HighSierra, NO NOSE WEIGHT with my engine / muffler combo.

Don, it is a very solid, and totally predictable airplane. I purchase very few ARF's and until acquiring the RB, I felt that Hangar -9 was way out in front with their designs and soundness of flight. The RB has proven to be just as solid in flight. I do feel they TT needs to address the L/G mounting area considering my airplane came in at only 5 oz. above the specified weight range.

Despite this gear mount issue which I view as a minor inconvenience, I still feel that it is a good buy at $300 +/-. If you had to purchase the spinner from Tru-Turn or equal, it would cost you $75.00 or so and it is every bit the quality and runs DEAD TRUE at all rpm's.

IT would be nice for TT to offer this airplane in a NON-Finished verson similar to what Top Flight has done on the giant mustang so that one could be apply a military finish.

Best of luck to all, enjoy.;)

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

Vampire,

Is there a chance this is a fluke (new 10-year-old kid in the assembly line not using the glue correctly) or a mechanical problem (too much toe-in/out on the gear) rather than a problem with the kit? The reason I ask is because I will be flying mine for the first time on Wednesday (with the help of a local ace for the first flight) and I am nervous about the gear now. I went back to the manual and looked at the pictures, they appear to show a single ply mount wher mine has tripled plywood with the small strip on both sides to keep the gear flush with the wing surface. In other words, the manual and the real product appear to be different, with the real product seeming beefier (hard to tell from the picture alone though).

I am building an electric-conversion Rare Bear (my fourth electric and third conversion) and when I mounted the Robart 609HD retracts (after a little grinding to get them in), I took a good look at the construction and it appeared quite sound. The manual warns you to "reinforce" this area but it really does look substantual (tripled ply spanning 2 plywood spars). I don't mean to point fingers, just looking for a chance this was corrected by TG or might not be all the kits. I did call Ace Hobbies (TG distributors) and the gentleman I spoke with there said he is not aware of any problems, in fact, they have flown theirs with no incidents. He did warn me that excess speed can tear the horizontal stabilizers off and recommended I reinforce with a carbon fiber X inside the fuse (to prevent oscillation) but nothing regarding main gear.

If I hold the wing and flex the extended gear hard, will I feel movement or flexing?

Thank you for all the building tips!

Jack

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

What mount are those of you with the YS 140 using with the engine mounted inverted????

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

heheheheh...You should read the editors comments in this month's RC Report. He talks about calling manufacturer/distributors with a problem that just about everybody has and having them tell you that they have never had any reports of problems.

I just find it interesting that you said they said that when i just read the article yesterday. Maybe I'll bring it to work and transcribe it.

You may have a later "build" and they fixed the problem

Don

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

Don,

You are of course correct, it is common, I guess I just expected him to at least be aware of anything with such a highly anticipated ARF. Truth is, I can't understand how ANY builder would make mounts that can't take one landing, they make planes for a living!? My Worls Models Tai Ji comes down so hard it bends the retracts but has never weakened the mounting area once. My Rare Bear will come in a little under 10 pounds (looks like 9 lbs, 10 oz with the Axi 4130/16, Jeti 77/3 Advance Speed Controller and 6S2P LiPo packs installed. I can't get an exact weight until the motor mount arrives (tomorrow AM) but I can guestimate. That means I'll be flying 2 pounds or so lighter than Vampire, landing on concrete, wonder if that makes a significant difference in the force exerted on the gear...

Jack

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

jfetter,

Point well made, no offense taken.

Grass ops will definitely be harder on a gear mount than hard surface runways.

I will clarify that when my 3 layer ply plates where inspected, there was NO visible glue residue present on ANY of the original kit joints. The GLUE joints broke without displacing ANY wood what so ever. All you can see is that whatever glue was used, I' assume some type of CA, it all was sucked into the ribs and virtually none penetrated into the ply gear plates. NO landing gear plateshould be installed with CA, they should be epoxied. The 4 glue joints that keep the gear plate in the wing are very small in contact area with their mating ribs, THAT's IT. I personnaly feel additional blocking is desirable.

I have seen this exact same condition exist on the GeeBee from Pacific Models. There is a LONG thread on this issue.

One other important note is that when using WIRE gear legs as originally specified, their is significant flex in them to provide less bending on the gear mounting plates. When installing Robo-struts, the shock absorption is vertical and they do place a higher rotational force on the gear plates.

As I have mentioned previously, I accept the gear plate issues as I have elected to use the Robo-strut and I find it a minor problem considering the performance the RB has delivered to which I am pleased with.

As to the test flight, this info is good info and IF you have a problem, you now know how to fix it.

Best of luck with your maiden as I'm certain you will be pleased.

BR

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

Vampire,

I'm glad you weren't offended, I did not mean to impune your building skill or experience. You are also correct in that the info is both useful and accurate. No matter how hard I try to convince myself I don't NEED to reinforce the landing mounts, I find myself tempted to remove the gear tonight and inject some epoxy around the joints (I am not up to cutting open a new plane - sob). I also agree that CA on ply isn't a great bond, in fact, the ply joints in the RB are the first joints I tried to use only CA for and ended up using epoxy for several critical joints (of course the firewall is all epoxy).

Thanks again for all the great building info, if nothing else, my failure to reinforce the area may in fact prove beyond any doubt that the design is at fault...

Jack

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

I look forward to reading your electric flight report. The technology is such that I have been thinking of moving over to big electrics (I have numerous electric sailplanes but that's not quite the same)

I've seen a GP Wagstaff Extra converted and was quite impressed and the electric RB would be kickin' (except half the fun of the real Bear is the sound of a 3350 at full song.)

Don