RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

One thing about the setup I have though, you are gonna spend some serious cash. Depending on how friendly your hobby shop is, you can spend $250 to as much as $450 just on the retracts. Considering how many of these planes have had problems you may want to go with something cheaper.

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

Who died and made you the king of the post my little lord Fontleroy.

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

anyone put gas in their RB?
I have a 3-w24 looking for a home
what do ya think?? Too much?

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

How much does it wiegh? I know mine with the OS160 balanced perfect with the battery all the way up front.

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

I had crash stab failure also, it s a beautifull airplane but i don't think an arf kit should take
so much work.
I had gaps in between fuselage and wing about 1/8"


ONE LAST THINK TO SAY,'' RARE BEAR SUCK''

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

I called ace and told them about the stab problem and they said they have never get
complains about it .
They think it was building problem and i told them i followed the instructions
So like i don't know how to build an "arf" kit i will no't buy another ace product.

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

Pajaro,

You just can't call Ace and expect everyone there to be in the know about the stab problems. In one of the past posts of this thread an Ace rep had responded about an autopsy they performed on a broken stab. I believe his name is Steve. So your best bet is to call Ace again and ask specifically for Steve. If they have 5 people named Steve, insist on speaking which each one until you get the right guy.

FWIW: Ace is NOT the model manufacturer, they are simply a distributor for Thunder Tiger. Your beef is with Thunder Tiger, so if your going to boycott the manufacturer of the RB you should at least boycott the correct entity. Don't buy anything produced by Thunder Tiger.

Just my $.02

Rich

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

I guess it is about time I chime in with my experience with the bear. I have been building planes since Gillows gave the razor blade companies a boost in stock and I would have to say that this plane required more skill than I am used to seeing in ARF style kits. I felt that the photos in the directions could have been a little more expressive as they are fairly cheep these days to produce in the assembly manuals. When I saw the advertisement in the model airplane magazines I just had to have one... It looked like a great racing plane and I knew it was going to be a kit that was mint to be fast. I imagined how my Saito 150 would cruise this plane across the field and pull up into a race turn around the pylons... My brother was nice enough to give me a kit and so I started by assembling the interior framework. I decided to move the firewall back 2 thick nesses of the supplied plywood (about .2 inches). I did this so that the spinner would be flush with the cowl. I mounted the Saito 150 inverted. The chrome knuckles peeked out the bottom of the cowl looking real cool. Then I glassed in everything. Yes it added a little weight but I hate seeing a plane fall apart in the air. I read all the threads about the Stab failures and so I paid extra attention to the Stab. I opened up the underside of the horiz stab and re-glued it. I read about the roll out of the gear and after looking at the design thunder tiger had provided I decided that it need some extra attention. I blocked and fiber glassed that too. I installed Robart retracts (a great system) and proceeded to finish the control hookups. I decided to make the elevator and rudder different from the plan. I used a carbon fiber rod for the connection to the metal gear servos. I also connected the elevator so that I was "pulling" the control horn when going up. In the past I had a World Models Midget Mustang. The plane crashed because of an elevator servo gear failure. Plastic gears won't work in a high performance plane for more than 2 or 3 flights. The gear strips... the elevator flutters... the stabilizer breaks... the plane lands really fast!
Weekend before last I flew it… I added 1 pound of weight to the nose to balance. It flew fairly well after adding in down trim. The Saito 150 really makes the show with the power and sound. It was fast. The landing was a “one”-piece landing that was probably a little faster than it needed to be. I’m thinking of building a new horizontal stabilizer. After having the previous experience with a scale racing plane (Midget Mustang) and reading all the bad press on the Rare Bear design I am thinking it may only be a matter of time before it folds up. I think I’d rather design something that I know will hold up to the stress that is apparent while using the larger Saito 150 engine. I do think the planes design is marginal in several areas and probably shouldn’t be considered as a high performance-racing plane the marketing advertisement tries to relate. This is only my opinion and not based on anything other than 45 years of building experience and I really don’t think I know it all.

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

Word of advice when contacting Ace... Do not, I reapeat DO NOT ask for Steve. Anthony is the man you want to talk to. I spent over a month dealing with Steve to no avail...very flaky.....Anthony on the other hand had the problem resolved in less than 15 minutes.

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

RBEAV 533
Thanks for the comment. When I called Ace I asked for Steve and he's no longer with them so I talk to Anthony. He was not really helpfull neither.
And didn't know that Ace is not the manufactor and I apologized for that.
But I still think they should treat better their customers.

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

So, which is it? Would I want to talk to Steve or Anthony?[sm=spinnyeyes.gif]

Actually I haven't even started my Rear Bear and doubt I will be getting to it any time soon. No, all this talk of gear falling out and stabs falling off hasn't scared me away, I just have a few other things on the bench in front of the Bear. But believe you me, when I do get started on mine, I will take into consideration everything that has been said in this thread... and then do my own thing :D

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

In my experience it's Anthony who was the most help (Be nice and courteous, but also convey how unhappy you are....afterall he didn'y personally have anything to do with the planes design or construction)......But you'll have no problems (and no reason to hassle with Ace) Stevo, if you heed the advice on the thread! I thoght it was a really fun plane to assemble, mods and all....It's certainly not your run of the mill ARF!

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

Ace just replaced my stab. I dealt with Steve and he was fine. They were a week late on the shipping which really pissed me off, And it wasn't unitl I talked to Anthony did I get a shipping number to track the arrival, but all and all I had no problems dealing with ACE.

I don;t think Steve is gone though. I call this past Thursday and they said Steve only works 3 days a week so I got Anthony. Has was very cool though.


As a matter of fact, I have a small GP25 engine in which the needle valve stripped. I sent the an email and they just shipped me a new card with no questions.

So far I have no beef's with ACE. They have bee great to deal with.

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

STEVO-RCU
if i would have to built another RB iwould open the stab and glue the fiber rods to every single rib.
it is a beatiful airplane when i first saw it i said i have to get one of those, but i didn't know about this problem.

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

OK, got my new stab on Friday. I cut the bottom off both stabs to prepare for the assault!

On the first stab, the skin came up with little effort. As a matter of fact, once off, I saw that on the other side, there was a significant GAP between the ribs and the skin. This baby would definalty have come apart if installed stock!!!!!!!!! Pic attached below so you can see for your self.

The second stab was glued just fine. Had to work to get the skin off.

Bottom line,,,, if you plan to put some power to this plane and you don't cut into the stabs to ensure structural integrity, you are rolling some high odds that you will have a stab failure. I have been in four separate stabs now, and 3 of them were not glued adequately. I am not even sure if they would hold together with a stock 90 size engine.

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

Upload didn't work for some reason

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

JWORTNER
if they replace your stab, do you think they shuld replace my airplane,
because it was a completly lost.

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

JWORTNER
after they see the stab picture they might do it,
because that it's a BIG DEFECT.

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

After you guys are opening and beefing up the stab, how are you re-applying the surface? Are you re-using what you cut off or using different covering? I've got some white monokote but it looks a little different white than that on the plane. Is the original Ultrakote white?

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

Yes, I used the original skin since it tends to come off pretty easy. I just use a xacto to make the cuts at an angle so the skin has a good glueing surface when reattached. Start at the first rib where mounts to plane and you can easily seperate the skin from the rib. Run the cuts up the leading and trailing edge about 1/4 in from the edge. This is important if you want to add additional ribs so that you can fit them in. Continue the cuts about 1/2 way up the length of the stab, and then across to complete the cut.

The covering is white ultracote. Mine matched perfect.

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

As said earlier I got my new stab on Friday and started the surgery about 2 pm and finished at 2 am. Had to get it done so I could fly on Saturday!!!!!.

The first pic shows when I completed the fitting of the new carbon fiber rods and extra ribs. I had not glued yet when I took the pic.

I doubled the first and second rib. I extended the font rod to meet the 3rd rib, and extended the plywood on the 3rd rib to meet the front rod.

The carbon fiber rod was slightly larger than the fiber glass so I had to enlarge the holes. I was a bit concerned about this since there is not a lot of wood there to begin with, but decided it would be ok. To enlarge the holes I just used the original rod with sticky sandpaper wrapped around it. The final diameter is about a wrap and 1/2 80grit wider than the original rod.

Once everything fit perfectly I glued the extra ribs in with CA. Then rechecked the fit of the rods and epoxied the rods into the first stab. This is great because with the skin off you can make sure the rods are epoxied on both sides of the ribs.

You can reskin the first stab now but you may want to consider putting the hinges on now so you can glue them from the back. When reglueing the skin, I used a little epoxy where the skin meets the ribs, and CA to rejoin the skin surfaces.

Then I epoxied the first stab to the plane after ensuring the fuselage was well sanded to accept the glue.

Next epoxy the second stab onto the plane and the rod to the ribs. Glue hinges and reskin as described above.

This puppy is not coming off, I promise you that!!!!!

Notice in the first pic that I had to notch the skin. This was done because I couldn't fit the extra rib in. On the second stab I cut the skin back further.

The second pic is how I mounted the elevator servo in the tail. I never liked the pushrood thing.

All this ended up adding about 6 oz to the plane and moved my CG back about 1/2 inch.

I flew the plane like this to see and I am really on the border line with the CG. I sure hate to add weight to the nose but may try a little, I guess the OS 160 can handle a little more weight. The plane is now 11lbs 10 oz.

Don't forget to seal the hinge gap on the elevator!

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

Pajaro,

I can't spead for ACE obviously. I was very lucky that I got my plane down before the stab totally failed.

There is not doubt in my mind that there is a problem with these stabs. I have opened 4 of them and only 1 was glued half way decently. We have had several other posts about planes lost from stab failures too.

There is a defninate pattern here, what ACE and Thunder Tiger will do about it, if anything is yet to be seen.

I love the plane though. It just looks so good!!! Everyone at the club goes gaga over it when I bring it and all line up to see it scream by!!

I really feel bad for those modelers that may buy one and don't know to check RCU before building a plane. I suspect that there will be more Bears going down based on what I have seen and read here.

Good luck. Keep us posted. Hope things work out for you.

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

Rich,

Read your ealier posts about decreasing the downthrust on the RB. You mention that you have some knowledge about his and wanted to ak for your comments on my situation.

I have the OS 160 in mine. CG is on the VERY edge but manageable. May add some nose weight, haven't decided yet.

Here's my situation. When flying along at about 1/2 throttle and trimmed out she flys great. When I open her up she climbs pretty significantly. I have to hold a good amount of down to keep her level.

I would think I need to increase the down thrust to correct this. I know I could mix in some down elevator at full throttle but I my thoughts are that will make the plan fly dirty and add stress to the elevator.

I mentioed the CG before but don't think that moving that up a bit would change it that much, I mean it really climbs. Other that that the plane seems fine.

Any thoughts?

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

nice work there Jwortner, That looks to be pretty bomb proof. Nice photos too... The RB community thanks ya! I don't think i'm flying my Bear again until I open up the stabs (that 1 of 4 being glued well is pretty scarry).

RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear
 

Jwortner,

Your description of the climb after application of full throttle when trimmed for half throttle flight is normal. We modellers tend to not fully understand flight dynamics simply because we're having too much FUN !!! 8>)) Without getting too boring I'll offer this, an airplane climbs due to excess power, it really has nothing to do with the elevator. The elevator simply allows the pilot a way of changing the angle of attack of the wing with the relative airflow. Here's an easy way to remember, The elevator controls Airspeed, the throttle controls Altitude.

About excess engine downthrust and how to test for it.

On a calm day, preferably with a spotter who can see very subtle changes in attitude (Heli guys are good for this), trim the plane for hands off level flight at full throttle. Once the plane is settled into perfectly level flight, pull the throttle to idle, don't touch the elevator and see what happens. If the plane starts to descend, the downthrust is probably correct. If the plane climbs before it starts to descend, you have excessive downthrust.

Rich