RE: Warning about Lanier RC
 

From the For what it's worth department:
Had you, BEFORE you purchased this plane, asked the RCU membership what the general consensus of the "early" LANIER products were regarding quality, you most certainly would have been given a "heads up".

Back in the day, only 8 years ago I purchased a Lanier Dart (trying to go on the cheap).
When I received the plane I had to ask..***?
Whatinthehellizzat?
Then I asked for help back on the old RCOnline site...and got the response your getting now, for the most part.
Moral of the story is, instead of trying to sway 90 THOUSAND members to boycott Lanier (which BTW is INTERNET blackmail of sorts)
You could have stated your position much less offensively, both here and at Lanier.
I too called Bubba 8 years ago, and his response was "what do you want for 65.00"
I got mad, then thought about it..he was right, go on the cheap, youse spend your moneys, you takes your chances.

So, you have a choice, go home mad and vow never to return or buck up, accept responsibility that you may have done this differently and stay as a valued contributing member.
I promise you'll be welcome if you stay, and won't be missed if you don't come back.

RE: Warning about Lanier RC
 

The Dart was one of the POCs I put togeather for someone else. However you are correct BA30 the Corsair was a much better plane, but it cost a bunch more too.


I did like that plane.[&o]

RE: Warning about Lanier RC
 

Yes , Jemo.
You are right.
I should not tell other people what to do.
This was not really my intention.
I didn't mean to start a "boycott" at all.
Just my frustration got a little carried away.
It WAS my intention to warn people about the Hawk sailplane and about the kind of outragous reply they may get from tech support if they are not able to be 100% polite while they are all dissapointed and feeling ripped off.

RE: Warning about Lanier RC
 

Welcome back, Dershark.
What plane do you have coming to replace the last one?

RE: Warning about Lanier RC
 

$28 shipping cost? That would have stopped me cold.

We always have the right to return goods as received and get a refund. Even losing the shipping cost, it would feel better than dealing with a poor kit and giving your money to a substandard supplier.

Lanier's been making money on those overweight, obsolete "kits" for far too long and should have improved or replaced them decades ago. You shouldn't have to do a research project to learn to avoid bad stuff.

So, while you may have approached Lanier in a more constructive fashion, you shouldn't have had to deal with their old junk at all. That comment "What do you expect for 65 bucks?" says a whole lot about commitment to quality and customer satisfaction. NOT

How many hundreds of those Hawks have they sold through Tower, and how few minutes have any of them actually flown? How many newbies threw away the wreckage and took up golf?
It's like the old Cox plastic control line models, "built to sell, not to fly".

I hate it that the quality manufacturers have to compete with this kind of thing.

RE: Warning about Lanier RC
 

Dershark
You sound like one of those customers you can never make happy. Bubba and Wayne are really great customer service oriented guys. When the new 1/3 arf Laser came out I got one and the tail wheel was missing. I called and Wayne and told him and three days later I had a whole new set of hardware....on the house. Guys lets take up a collection and pay for this guys plane so he won't complain anylonger. Tell us did you find anything you liked when you got the plane? I don't care much for gliders anyway. The old ARF's from Lanier where junk. I have the Laser and the bigger Edge and love them both. I have a glider in my shop I will give to you just as long as you don't complain.....let me know. Bubba and Wayne,keep up the good work.

RE: Warning about Lanier RC
 

Shark
Do ya think cause you live outta the country that shipping may have taken a little longer?? Don't think any terrorist attack on our great country had anything to do with the shipping do you? ENJOY!!!!

RE: Warning about Lanier RC
 

I don't know.....I e-mailed Lanier a week ago asking what type of covering is on the new 40 size trainer they have out. Still no response..............:eek:

RE: Warning about Lanier RC
 

I think what they did was take all the defective pieces out of all the kits, stuck them in an empty box and shipped them to you!

RE: Warning about Lanier RC
 

I guess I really should explain fully.
I should not expect you to take my word for it.

It's a bit long, but for those that are interested, it is worth reading.

I decided to get into RC sailplanes and as a dumb newbie went out and bought a molded high performance 1.5M glider ARF.

I started doing lots of reading and research.
As I was buying all the bits and pieces ( radio, servos, chargers, etc. ) I realized that this was the wrong type of sailplane to start out with.

I learned that, as a newbie, I should buy a 2 meter, flat bottomed wing, polyhedral, slow , trainer glider with just rudder and elevator control.

So I packed up the hotliner and put it away and ordered a Lanier Hawk 75" Sailplane ARF.
Here is a link to the Manufacturer's info on the plane........

[link=http://www.lanierrc.com/lrcprivate/rcairplanes/hawk.htm]Lanier Hawk Sailplane[/link]

As can be seen from the advertising speel - it seemed like the ideal trainer sailplane. And not all that expensive to boot.
I did the math and figured it should have a wingloading around 7.7 oz./sq.ft. Sounded good. Seemed it would be durable and had a ply wing spar too.
So I ordered it online.

When it arrived, I was rather dissapponted with several aspects.

1) The fuse seemed very heavy
2) The left wing panel was 1 inch longer than the right wing panel
3) The ply spar joiners were badly warped
4) The spars themselves were warped
5) The abs plastic fuse molding was very poor with many defects ( warps,dings,cracks etc. )
6) There had been shipping damage to the wing corners and to the rear of the fuse due to poor packaging
7) The fuse had a longditudinal twist in it - about 3 or 4 degrees!
7a) They supplied a solid steel pin for the rudder that was very heavy

Well - I thought I could fix everything with some extra work and materials so I decided to build it. After all - it was hardly worth shipping it back for a refund.

So I started building.
I have lots of experience modeling with static display cars.
In fact have won 2 National awards for them, so I had some transferrable skills.
Also I was a small machine mechanic for 17 years and I raced go karts for 3 years, so I can use tools and reason technical things out.

I got about 2/3 of the way through fixing/building and started to plan ahead for balancing ( battery and servo locations etc.)
This is when I bought a scale and built a balancing rig.
I put the completed one piece wing assembly on the new and freshly calibrated scale and to my horror it was 28.8 oz.
I thought - Lanier says the " flying weight is 40 oz" !!!! How could just the wing be this much ?
I took the fuselage and placed everything that would be insatalled in it later, into it and weighed it too. Wow!! - it was 35 oz. !!!
There were 2 HS-81 servos, a JR 770S Rx, a swith harness (small ), 2 golden rods, and a 4.4 oz. 1100Mah Rx battery. I decided to use this battery because it would be crammed way up into the nose for balance. Turns out I needed even more weight in the nose to balance so there were no savings to be had from a smaller/lighter battery.
So - it looked like the AUW was going to be around 28.8 + 35 =63.8 oz.
I was bewildered because now the wing loading was way off the mark for this size of thermal glider at 12.5 oz./ sq.ft
Then I started the balancing routine to see how much I need to add in the nose. OMG - I discovered I need 10 oz. of lead in the nose!!!!
Now the AUW is 73.8 oz. and wing loading is 14.5 !!!!!
This is not a thermal glider I thought.
Wing loading is almost double what it should be.

Then I realized what Lanier had done to me.
On their web site I saw their Slo Comet. see link below.......
[link=http://Lanier Slo Comet]http://www.lanierrc.com/lrcprivate/rcairplanes/slocom.htm[/link]
This is the same airframe except the fin is a little different shape. Exactly the same wings, stab , canopy, fuse etc.
This powered trainer weighs 6 pounds.
What Lanier did, was they took their Slo comet, and removed the engine and changed the shape of the fin and photographed it from a different angle and said...... " it's a sailplane that weighs 2 1/2 pounds!!"
This is why I need a 5 oz. battery and 10 oz. of lead in the nose to balance it because the engine is not installed.
This is also why it does not weigh 2 1/2 pounds, but over 4 1/2 pounds.

Well , I had been conned by Lanier.
I couldn't believe that an established manufacturer could do such a thing.

Anyways - I then did a massive weight reduction program.
1) sawed of bottom 2/5 of the fuse
2) drilled holes everywhere that was feesible
3) re assembled the fuse.
4) made sure everything in the fuse was as far forward as possible to keep balance weight at a min.


The results are...... I got rid of 10 oz. at the expense of strength.
New AUW = 64 oz. - wing loading of 12.5
Not useful as a thermal glider as intended, but maybe slope or with a power pod. Big bucks to power this brick with electric.

When I emailed Lanier tech support for some clarifications on control throws and questions about the weight they never replied.
I sent them many emails to sevearal areas of the company including tech suppoert and got nothing back for 7 weeks.

I decided to warn others about how I was duped on various chat forums.
During this time I finally got a reply form Lanier ( 7 weeks later )
All they said was " have a nice day".
I was furious.
I decided to report their response on the chat forums too.

So anyways - the bottom line is this......

1) It's not worth the hassle trying to get a refund from Lanier ( the thing was only about 130 CDN shipped )
2) All I really want is to warn others about the type of thing this company will do.
3) I have learned to never believe the advertizing ( I'm not naive, I did expect some exaggeration in the specs, but not such an extreme as reporting 74 oz. as 40 oz!)

I left out a few additional details!

1) I paid big dollars for air shipping, and they sent it ground - took 31 days
2) They charged my credit card 3 days before they shipped it.
3) The plans give no info of any kind for the servos.
4) The spar joiners were a different design than in the plans.
5) The price may seem low but there was absolutely no hardware included at all. I knew that to start.
6) The elevator hits the rudder after moving up only 1/8 of an inch. Had to modify.
7) There were staples that had gone thru the lite ply and missed the target on other side.
7a) When I disassembled the fuse for weight reduction work, I found the glue joints were so weak they just fell apart in my hands.
9) One of the wing caps was glued on crooked ( about 8 degrees off compared to the other cap )

So that's it folks.
I can't imagine how I could have been more unlucky.
I will stay away from Lanier and this will no doubt improve my chances next time.

Has anybody ever had anything like this with an oriental or european manufacturer?

To Race76......

It's not so much complaining as it is a heads up warning for you guys. Just trying to help.
The comment about terrorism is waaaay out in left field. - lol.
I paid for air shipping and got ground shipping. Of course ground takes longer. Sorry, I didn't get your point.
Yeah OK - I'll take the glider off your hands if you don't want it. Thanks!!!
E-mail me if you are serious. Thanks.

RE: Warning about Lanier RC
 

You have many many, valid points.
Fact is after reading every word, you appear to have gotten a poor product and then to add insult to injury you had the shipping issue, and no returned email correspondence.
You weren't entitled to a refund because you modified the plane in order to save weight, justifiably.
I know that this is not the way Lanier does business on a regular basis, and so do you. You can see from the many loyal customers that Lanier has, that overall they are a good company.
You had a bad experience, and no one can deny that.
I don't think that you were being unreasonable to expect a product that is flyable and within aproximate weight claims, to a reasonable extent, all ARF's go over their claimed weight.

The personality you portray on line has rubbed a few folks the wrong way, and you have been made fun of because of that.
It's not fair but it is what it is.
Here's a tip, life ain't fair.
You are also at a disadvantage because of where you are from, phone calls cost, (the fastest and best solution) more and the likelihood of a company returning your phone calls out of country are diminished.
Regardless of how people perceive you and your personality, you were wronged.
It's over, and you learned from this.
You have pointed out these shortcomings to the masses.
It is doubtful that Lanier will be selling many more Hawks.
You and Lanier both loose.
Done deal, time to move on, let it go.
This threads been fun, but I'm done.

RE: Warning about Lanier RC
 

dershark3

Things like this do happen from time to time with many manufacturers, thats not to say it is business as usual.

Stick around, there is a lot to learn. The more you learn the less mistakes you will make.

It's a good hobby/sport and this is a good place to put out feelers before you but something.

RE: Warning about Lanier RC
 

Thanks for your comments and support guys.

RE: Warning about Lanier RC
 

I'm 110% with you, Dershark3. I've been in this hobby for over 34 years and Lanier IS ABSOLUTELY the worst manufacturer going! I have a friend who is fairly new to this hobby and he went out and bought Lanier's "Razor 3D". He had already bought it before I could warn him about the company in general. I volunteered to help him with his kit and when we open the box, we discovered that the aileron servo lead "puller" (a piece of fishing line tied to a scrap piece of balsa) was lodged in the 2nd rib bay on the left side. We had no choice but to cut into the covering and fish the line out. It was ONLY 4 1/2" long and there was NO WAY it cound have ever possibly reached the servo mounting hole! Then, due to the VERY POOR instruction booklet, my friend thought that the engine was to be mounted right side up when, in fact, after examining the instruction booklet with a magnifying glass, we discovered that the engine was to be mounted inverted! He had already cut the clearance hole out on TOP of the cowl.

He and I both sat down at the computer and wrote Lanier about all of this, ONLY to receive a reply, "sorry, I can't replace the cowl due to your mistake, but I'd be happy to sell you one!" NO MENTION in the reply about the "pull string" problem in the wing. Oh, I almost forgot......the engine mounts were factory predrilled wrong too but that was quickly remedied by redrilling them. My friend and I both sat down again and wrote "Mr. Lanier" another letter but as to date, we have yet to hear anything and it's been several days now. Quite frankly, I don't expect to get a reply either.

So, I described all this just to let other readers BEWARE of this manufacturer and to let you know I'm behind you! I learned my lesson about Lanier many years ago and I've NEVER bought one of their products and CERTAINLY NEVER WILL! I am personally going to a campaign to warn others in the hobby about this "slip-shot manufacturer" and their ways. Thanks for listening to me.......Bluemax01

RE: Warning about Lanier RC
 

bluemax
I guess i was sorta lucky because i was going to purchase a Lanier ARF and was already at the LHS to pick one up. I decided to open the taped box with the manager right there and it's a good thing I did. I had always built from kits but I wanted to try an ARF. I thought it was the cheapest made plane I had ever seen. It looked like something Cox built, mostly plastic. I didnt see a whole lot of wood, and this was a 60 size plane. Best decicion I ever made was to let the LHS keep it. Ipicked up a UCD 60 and a Seagull models Razzle, both of which are built up balsa fuselages. Definitely stay away from Lanier.
rick
mt sterling ky

RE: Warning about Lanier RC
 

Look, if you are not satisfied; May be you should consider calling BBB (the better business bureau).
People have rights, if you got stepped on, then may be you can make sure that they think twice before treating others in the same way, or keep selling the same piece of Junk.
You may not get any thing now, but the more calls to the BBB against some bad practicing company, the easier it is to make them pay for future incidences.
I have not bought their products before.
I have nothing against them; I'm only stating one of your options.

Best of luck to you

Gryphon

RE: Warning about Lanier RC
 

For me Lanier RC has always been wonderful to deal with.

I’ve owned two Lanier Invaders powered with 61s and they were fun. I’ve assembled and flown four Jesters and they fly very well too. The hottest one had a piped Irvine 61 ABC engine and it was totally ballistic. Because of over powering I did a lot of fiberglass work inside of the fuselage to keep them together. I think all of the old Lanier pattern kits with a standard 61 qualify for the old timer pattern events as well.

I had an opportunity to visit the factory and all of the people there were super to deal with. As a company, they have done a great deal to promote and support RC and many RC events. Great company!

RE: Warning about Lanier RC
 

I think everyone's points have been made here and obviously the original poster was not satisifed for his reasons and reading through the thread there have been many who have been satisifed. I'll leave this thread intact but locked so people can read it and draw their conclusions but it seems counterproductive 42 posts into this to let it run on and on and on.