Phoenix Models Giles 202 question
 

To anyone that has a phoenix models giles 202:
When I was installing my engine, the book stated that the distance from the
firewall to the engine thrust washer is supposed to be 4-3/4 inches. With the engine all the way forward, I can only get 4-1/4.
2 problems that this is causing is the cowl to be pushed back to where it starts covering the pinstripes on the side of the fuselage, and barely having enough room for the propeller. Also, the plane is a little tail heavy. I believe the 1/2 inch that the engine needs to move up would help with that.
Did anyone else that has this plane ever have this problem?
Thanks,
Mark

RE: Phoenix Models Giles 202 question
 

Yep!

I had to mount the engine by bolting it with the front bolts going thru the front engine flange and the front holes of the mount. I still used the rest of the mounting hardware. This brought it close to the 4-3/4" mark. My plane was still tail heavy. Had to add some weight to the nose.

RE: Phoenix Models Giles 202 question
 

Great thinking.
Those stupid bolts won't go through the engine mount.
I will go to the shop and find some that will fit.
Thanks for the idea taz,
Mark

RE: Phoenix Models Giles 202 question
 

Just add a piece of 1/2 inch ply to the front of the fuse and drill appropriate holes for your engine mount and fuel tubing.

RE: Phoenix Models Giles 202 question
 

Taz,
How much weight did it take? I had to put 7.5 oz. Does anyone know it that is too much? Or is that normal?
Mark

RE: Phoenix Models Giles 202 question
 

Way too much. Something is wrong. Recheck your CG and add an additonal engine if necesary...... HA!
You should be able to balance without adding any weight, unless perhaps you are using a bushed .40.

RE: Phoenix Models Giles 202 question
 

I have the os 46AX. That's what it said to put on it. I already spent the $100 dollars on it, so getting another engine is out of the question right now.
A buddy of mine has a zero from another company stationed in Vietnam. He said all the packaging is identical to Phoenix model's packaging. Looks to be the same company, and his plane was a bit more tail heavy than mine.
Someday will try to find a way to make space in the fuel tank area for the battery. That should help.
Guess we get what we pay for. An ARF for $130 is cheap.
Mark

RE: Phoenix Models Giles 202 question
 

you may not believe it...but all Phoenix Model Planes are tail heavy......but when flying, the wing incidence brings the plane out level in flight. One model, the Dolphin is tail heavy...not by much, but in flight I have to dial in lots of up elevator. This month, I'm planning on changing the wing incidence by about 1/4 inch at a time and see how she flies. I tried tilting the engine upwards last month....but that didn't help. I really like these models and their workmanship has improved 200%. Hope you solve your engine/cowl problem.....you have some good advise to choose from. I use the front holes to bolt my engine and it works fine.

Cheers.

RE: Phoenix Models Giles 202 question
 

So Kaz,
Your saying you put no weight and it was fine?

RE: Phoenix Models Giles 202 question
 

Just flew it. Had to set the elevator trim to max UP to make it fly straight. Took 3 oz off and it still is maxed up elevator, but still flying straight.
Should I keep taking more off?
Mark

RE: Phoenix Models Giles 202 question
 

Personally, I wouldn't recommend flying it without the recomended CG. 7.5 oz of nose weight is a bit much. I'd try to move everything forward including the engine if possible to try to get it closer. If you have to, a heavy prop hub may get you where you need to go.

RE: Phoenix Models Giles 202 question
 

sorry it took so long to get to ya. I don't remember exactly how much weight I used to balance my 202. But, it wasn't THAT much weight. Maybe a couple ounces at most.

RE: Phoenix Models Giles 202 question
 

Hi Kanto......:D Like I told ya....these models are tail heavy, but in flight it heads for the ground. You have to dial in lots of "UP" trim. Ok.....here's what I did.....no lead weights. Build the Trailing Edge of the wing @ the Fuse 1/4 inch at a time. Fly it until you don't have to build it up anymore. Don't exceed 1/2 inch. This will change the AOA and there will come a point that you don't have to dial in "UP" trim. Thrust me on this. It flies great after that. When you finish building the Trailing Edge....use Wing Tape and fill the gap between the wing and fuse. Remember....no lead weights. OK. I know these models...only ones I'm flying now.
Check www.goldscallop.com for the line of Phoenix & World Models.

Not there buddy....when it works....you owe us guys here on RCU a case of brewski....woo hoo.:D:D:D:D:D:D[8D]

RE: Phoenix Models Giles 202 question
 

I'm a little confused. If it's balanced on the CG, why is it nosing down? Is the wing set at negative incidence? Is the engine thrust pointed down? Is the horizontal stab incidence positive? How does it fly inverted?

There are trimming charts on the IMAC and NSRCA pages, as well as on Geistware's page and other websites. Maybe there's even one on the RCU site someplace. You go through a logical sequence and establish whether the balance is off, or the incidence is off, or the engine thrust is off, by making maneuvers for comparison - but you start with the balance point at the recommended CG and the trims at straight & level normal flight.

From Kaz's post, it sounds like the plane is designed with negative incidence, not with a tail heavy condition - because he recommends correcting it by making the wing incidence more positive. I'm confused about whether the recommended balance point is off, or the as-designed wing incidence, or something else.

Good luck,
Dave Olson

RE: Phoenix Models Giles 202 question
 

anyone know the spec distance from the firewall to prop washer for the Phoenix Su31 ?

RE: Phoenix Models Giles 202 question
 

Yup....all Phoenix Models apparently has negative wing incidence I find, and are great fliers when you have it corrected. Very fast and precise to fly.

The Phoenix Sukhoi 5" from firewall to prop washer.

Do a search for a Phoenix Cap 232 here in ARF for a model that I put together. It's kewl.

Cheers.

RE: Phoenix Models Giles 202 question
 

see my 2 bobs worth ....Phoenix thrust and cowl fix ...this forum

RE: Phoenix Models Giles 202 question
 

Hi Ian, good tips on your other post. Doesn't it make your plane too nose heavy though? The Magnum is also heavier than an OS.46. Reason is I'm asking......these models head for the ground when in the air unless the wing incidence is corrected as I described.
How does your model fly? Any pics as yet?

Yo Yo Kanto......haven't heard from you in awhile. What about the brewski's I 0rdered?:D:D

cheers.

RE: Phoenix Models Giles 202 question
 

HI Kaz, no you still balance the model where it says, a little bit of tail weight is far better than a heap of nose weight ...the test for incidence on the wing is to go to full power and trim the plane to fly level ...now cut the power... if the plane pitches nose up...too much downthrust...if the plane pitches nose down...(very rare) too much up thrust ...(this is all with the CG in the right place, also determined by elevator sensitivity)...if the plane doesnt pitch, but sinks fast as it slows, this means high wing loading ...use up trim to slow the decent..but not to stalling speed(tip stall)
far better to move the engine forward and have a little nose heavy, than to add a lot of nose weight, use wot you got.....these damm orientals always get something wrong. :D ;)

RE: Phoenix Models Giles 202 question
 

Sorry kaz, just didn't really understand the whole adding wing trailing edge/wing incidence... Do you have any pictures to help explaine. I will then send you the $$ for da booze...

RE: Phoenix Models Giles 202 question
 

Hey Kanto.....just kiddin bout da booze. I will try to take some pics tonite of what I did and post them. It's really an easy thing to do. I'm no expert...but I hang out with the expert and pick up a thing or two...:D:D:D

Cheers.

RE: Phoenix Models Giles 202 question
 

Hi Kaz and Kanto... my giles has the wing incidence 0-0 out of the box, you should check the incidence with a meter...robart or the new lazer one...unless your plane was made on monday and the wing seat is out ,you shouldn't be changing the incidence.
I have been flying r/c planes for 30 years...started with single channel , very unreliable...Im no expert , just a lot of experience
try moving the C/G back a little at a time , say 1/4" each time, untill the elevator STARTS to become sensitive , then put it where you are comfortable and the plane stunts the way you want.
Ian White....from down under :D ;)

RE: Phoenix Models Giles 202 question
 

By the way there Son of a "Bi#%h" Pale face. My wife is oriental. But thanks for the help anyway. I'm sure you didn't mean anything really bad by that statement.
Mark

RE: Phoenix Models Giles 202 question
 

UH oh!

RE: Phoenix Models Giles 202 question
 

Wow, just removed all that trim on my radio so I can adjust it via the servo linkage. Don't know what happened to my center, but it was off. That was why I had to trim it so much. But it still requires some up trim to fly straight. I would still like it to be perfect, so I look forward to see Kaz's setup on his G202.
Had a friend look at my possible incidence problem (eye ball) and he said he couldn't see anything, instead he found the engine to be pointing down a bit like scar said to check.
Will see how it flies on Saturday. If is still has a problem we will check the incidence again w/ a meter that a club member has.
Mark